Project: EFI SWAP What do I need to make it work?

[NineThrityONE]

Hi all, hope you all will bear with me. I'm attempting to swap the EFI from a 1g Turbo into a Non EFI turbo 2.0L engine (not a DSM). At least that was the plan, like 10y ago. I finally got fed up with Bosch CIS (mechanical fuel injection, with a couple abacus to adjust).

I currently have the entire wiring harness laid out on a table.

So my first question: My engine doesn't have any idle stabilizer, and I was debating whether to use the 1g Throttle (91) but the holes don't quite line up) OR use my original throttle and just adapt the 1G TPS, and ignore the idle stabilizer (ISC)?

Question #2: The injectors I have chosen (which have the extended tips I need) are high impedance. I think I read that I could delete the injector resistor to make them work properly? Can anyone clarify?

 

[steve]

Are you going to run DSMLink on that ECU?

People have swapped 4G63's into many different platforms and used the ECU with other 4 cylinder engines so your not on the frontier. You don't need to use an Idle Speed Control stepper motor (ISC) but it's pretty integrated into the idle functions in the software. Same is true with the TPS and Idle Position Switch (IPS). The standard software uses the ISC for warm up, idle speed stabilization, and dashpot emulation.

The ECU injector drivers are basically for saturated high impedance use. On the turbo engines they use a low impedance injector with a resistor for current control because at the time the high performance injectors were all low impedance. If you use high impedance injectors you will need to bypass the injector resistor. They make bypasses that just plug in or you can hack the harness.

 

[bastarddsm]

Steve is 100% on all things he mentioned, heed what he says as he's been around forever.

I'll add to his suggestion that if you want to run the ISC and DON'T want to use a DSM throttle body, there is a emissions piece on a Nissan that uses a DSM like IAC that has hose barb connections making it easy to use as a remote mount IAC. You'll have to search to find it, but it does exist and several places make a billet replacement piece so you will not have to go junkyarding to get one.

Also if you go a non DSM tbody, check into the TPS. There isn't a way to calibrate the TPS in the stock code, perhaps ECMLink has added that functionality. It also may not matter that much. Perhaps @steve knows more about that. I've not spent much time in the code there, but I'm thinking it would really only affect the dashpot. As tip in fueling is only based on rate of change. Probably if you can get it to read <5% at closed throttle it'll be just fine if it doesn't go to 100% at WOT. Lastly the IPS is a pain in the ass, ECMLink has a setting to emulate it. Use that, regardless if you use a DSM throttlebody.

 

[steve]

There isn't a way to calibrate the TPS in the stock code, perhaps ECMLink has added that functionality. It also may not matter that much. Perhaps @steve knows more about that. I've not spent much time in the code there, but I'm thinking it would really only affect the dashpot. As tip in fueling is only based on rate of change.

Lastly the IPS is a pain in the ass, ECMLink has a setting to emulate it. Use that, regardless if you use a DSM throttlebody.

ECMTuning made big changes to the TPS/IPS code to support third party throttlebodies.

You bring up a good point about how TPS position effects the ISC dashpot emulation, I'll need to revisit that code because it might be the only place (on a stock ECU) where the ECU actually cares about the absolute TPS position rather than the delta's from prior positions. I know the amount the IPS opens increases in proportion to throttle opening but it's not 1:1.

I don't find the IPS a PITA on either generation. Getting the stop screw correct after somebody messed with it is a pain both generations. (only related because 1G's use the IPS as the stop screw)

 

[NineThrityONE]

thanks for the info.
I picked up a Ostrich and plugged it in. (don't know what I did with the stock chip) of course I haven't tried to use it yet. will the ecu function or do I have to "install" code on to it? (I forget how its supposed to work)

I could possibly adapt the TPS on to my current TB, will look into that, or make and adapter plate to mount the 1g TB.

I just want to get it to the point it runs "normally" Ill even take "normal" errors.

Also, what items can I delete off the wiring harness?

 

[steve]

You have to load the Ostrich with the ECU firmware or else the ECU will try and execute whatever is in the Ostrich's memory as code.

 

[NineThrityONE]

Oh yeah, I just remembered, I downloaded some Tuning software Made by a DSM guy, but I can't recall the name. anyone know?

 

[bastarddsm]

I think at this point it would be best if you laid out your plans a little more so we can help you more. What sensors do you want to use? I take it you are planning on running an ostrich with a modified factory bin? That limits your options on some things.

 

[NineThrityONE]

So, I basically just want to go to Electronic Fuel injection, from NON-electronic Fi.
I liked the CAS, and I should be able to 3d print a mount so I can put the CAS where the Distibutor Cap is.
Ill worry about mods and such after it runs reliably.

I mean, you got your basics: Air, fuel spark/timing, where will I run into issues, and anything specific related to the 1G DSM system?

But basically what ever is needed to make it run. Im only planning on about 16psi max boost.

 

[pauleyman]

So, I basically just want to go to Electronic Fuel injection, from NON-electronic Fi.
I liked the CAS, and I should be able to 3d print a mount so I can put the CAS where the Distibutor Cap is.

CAS spins at half crankshaft speed since it bolts to a camshaft. Not sure what you're proposing will work.

Ill worry about mods and such after it runs reliably.

I mean, you got your basics: Air, fuel spark/timing, where will I run into issues, and anything specific related to the 1G DSM system?

But basically what ever is needed to make it run. Im only planning on about 16psi max boost.

 

[NineThrityONE]

hello, can anyone tell me what is the minimum components/Sensor/inputs needed to start the engine (QRC: im trying to run an old German 4cyl on 1G EFI)

So im just trying to see if this crazy idea will actually work, and want to know what all I need to see if it will even fire.

Heres what I got (and that im sure it needs)
ECU
wiring harness
CAS
TPS
MAF
COILs
Fuel injectors
ignition transistor
MPI block

what I don't have:
o2 sensor
Knock sensor
coolant temp sensors


Now I think I can provide Fuel with the cars stock system (so Ill sort of be running the car with both the factory and the DSM system)

Oh and I Do have a wideband already installed

 

[jdxnc]

You got the minimum pretty much, I'm not 100% on the 1g ecu, I think it is, but with a 2g ecu, coolant temp is 100% required otherwise the ecu will default to -40 and will flood the engine with fuel.

o2 and knock are not needed just to start.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

1g is pretty finicky on the CTS also. It needs to be good and working and talking to the ECU or you'll have a hell of a time getting it to start, like Jason said.
"Key Start" on ECMLink is also VERY important. Thanks to @steve for helping me figure that out on my 1g.

 

[danl]

You forgot the engine. You will need one of those.

You must have coolant temp on a 1g. Not the gauge sensor. The ecu must have coolant temp.

 

[Ryan4dc]

I don’t have a starter signal wire to the ECU but my fuel pump is relayed on with key in on position. I agree on coolant temp being a requirement on my 1g ECU. With ECMLink you could lock the coolant temp though.

 

[NineThrityONE]

that actually was my next question, how/where do I power the system, since im not hooking it up to the ignition switch/starter yet. (ill let the cars original starting system do the cranking) for now right now I just plan to connect directly to the battery
im using this pin out as a guide:

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[NineThrityONE]

does anything need to be plugged into these??

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1g is pretty finicky on the CTS also. It needs to be good and working and talking to the ECU or you'll have a hell of a time getting it to start, like Jason said.
"Key Start" on ECMLink is also VERY important. Thanks to @steve for helping me figure that out on my 1g.

what is the CTS?

 

[steve]

what is the CTS?

Engine Coolant Temp Sensor.

I don't think the one you have labeled as C-58 is, C-58 looks more like the one you have as ?#1.
What manuals do you have?

 

[NineThrityONE]

Engine Coolant Temp Sensor.

I don't think the one you have labeled as C-58 is, C-58 looks more like the one you have as ?#1.
What manuals do you have?

Oh, that is not my picture, it's pulled from another thread. I just need to know if those are needed for running, If not, I wont worry about it.

Oh ok, I do have a temp sensor and am waiting on the fittings to install it.

I don't have a "manual" per say, But I have found numerous pictures and pages with descriptions, but a lot of the pages I've found don't have complete info, so I have to cross reference 3-5 different sources to figure out an answer. I'm sure things would be more obvious if I had an Eclipse in front of me to study.

 

[steve]

I'd make sure to download the the various 1G manuals from https://www.dsmtuners.com/forum/articles-manuals-documents.262/ and the 1G DSM 1990 Technical Information Manual. The DTM has a great section on how the ECU works and combined with the wiring diagram in the service manuals you have a better idea of what connects to what, where and does the ECU need it.

It's not a complete answer because part of your questions is what can I get away with not connecting.

 

[NineThrityONE]

Ok Ive looked at all those, and figured a few things out, BUT im still not sure where to give + power?? grounds are obvious. I see the "Power supply" on the ECU pin out (obviously the red wires) can i just spliced into the red wires??

 

[steve]

Power for the 1G ECU come from two places. There is the backup power used to maintain the memory for fuel trims and other learned parameters and then their is the power that come from the MPI circuit. That's slightly unique because the backup power is used to drive a small circuit in the ECU that activates the MPI relay which them powers up the rest of the ECU a most of the engine sensors, solenoids, etc. All of this is spelled out in the things I referenced.

Maybe this will clear up any questions. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-basic-ecu-mpi-relay-circuit-function.435961/

 

[NineThrityONE]

Ok if I read that right basically + power comes from the fuse box that mounts on the POS bat terminal.
im studying the rest of the diagram. But my other main question, which im unclear on: How do I turn the system ON (since im not using an ignition switch), Basically how do it "hot wire" it? I see 108 and 110 on the ECU pin out which are stated "ignition" if those get +power, or do I "close the circuit" with something else?

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[steve]

Both 108 and 110 are status inputs to the ECU not power. They tell the ECU that the ignition is on (110) and that you are trying to start the car (108). These cause the ECU to do something related to what they are indicating.

I'm on my way out the door to see my grandkids so my away until Monday.

 

[NineThrityONE]

Both 108 and 110 are status inputs to the ECU not power. They tell the ECU that the ignition is on (110) and that you are trying to start the car (108). These cause the ECU to do something related to what they are indicating.

I'm on my way out the door to see my grandkids so my away until Monday.

Ok so are they already supplied power, or do i need to give them power? and how do I turn on the ecu, if im not using the ignition switch, so that the car will run? (cranking will be done by the cars factory system)