Project: EFI SWAP What do I need to make it work?

[NineThrityONE]

Perhaps you have said but I've forgotten, what year and car did you pull the harness from?
There is some 1990 info in https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/t...l-wiring-harness.412841/page-2#post-152709711 and some comparisons to later harnesses.

Im actually not sure, I didnt pull it my self. It does have the separate closed idle switch/cable (which is not on the billet throttle I installed) how else can I tell?

 

[NineThrityONE]

Ok So I got it to run continuously (just barely) last night, but not well. I checked and the White/sensor wire coming from the TPS did seem to show .5v now at the ECU plug but I'm not sure if it's reading it now or not.

So after I got it started, I adjusted the idle screw to open the throttle more, and doing that it kind of ran (the TPS voltage was showing .68v at that setting) it was weird though, the RPM would climb a few hundred, then it would come down and almost die, and the engine would slowly recover/adjust, and the cycle would repeat and it would be missing a lot.

BUT, When I would first start the engine (even after it died) it would run ok for the first 8-10 sec, then almost die and I'd have to hit the throttle, where the RPMs would increase, but also be missing.

However! I found this wire was cut: (coming from the MAF)

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Also I will install the O2 and see if that does anything.

 

[steve]

1G Turbo MAF pinout from the FSM.

Pin 1 Green/White ECU Pin 6 (ECU MAF reset) (ECU Pin 14 on 1990)
Pin 2 Green/Blue ECU pin 10 (MAF Airflow)
Pin 3 Red MPI Relay pin 4/5 (MPI Switched Battery)
Pin 4 Green/Red ECU pin 23 (ECU +5v Sensor Power)
Pin 5 NC
Pin 6 Green/Black ECU pin 24 (ECU Sensor Ground)
Pin 7 Green/Yellow ECU Pin 16 (Barometric Pressure)
Pin 8 Green/Orange ECU Pin 8 (Intake Air Temp)

The NA MAF doesn't have a MAF Reset input. It's pinout is:

Pin 1 Green/Blue ECU pin 10 (MAF Airflow)
Pin 2 Red MPI Relay pin 4/5 (MPI Switched Battery)
Pin 3 Green/Red ECU pin 23 (ECU +5v Sensor Power)
Pin 4 Green/Black ECU pin 24 (ECU Sensor Ground)
Pin 5 Green/Yellow ECU Pin 16 (Barometric Pressure)
Pin 6 Green/Orange ECU Pin 8 (Intake Air Temp)

 

[NineThrityONE]

well I hooked up the the cut Maf wire, and put in the O2 sensor, with zero change.

So I can now get it to stay running but not well. What is is that happens at "start" because it kind of seems to run ok for the firstr 8-10sec Then starts hunting and missing, and if I give it gas, it almost dies then "catches up"

Also, I put a probe at the ECU plug for the TPS contact. while running it is getting proper volatage at the contact at least. (I dont know if the ECU is reading)
However this last time, with the car running I used the spare TPS and plugged it in, in my hand and turned it it and saw both the V change and the engine did increase in speed. so it sound like the ECU is seeing it.

Right now after the car starts and it starts missing the A/F is bouncing around 16.5+/-

 

[steve]

So the TPS works fine when it's loose but fails when it's mounted to the TB?
It looks pretty tight under there, any possible physical issues causing the TPS to fail?

 

[NineThrityONE]

well, I dont know, TPS sorta seems to be working now. Heres a couple videos of the car running (plugged the TPS on the TB back in) +Probe at the ECU, Neg at battery. (no chance, that is grounding or completing the circuit? )

sorry the vids arent great, but you can see the multimeter on the left, and when you hear the car stumble, that is when Im cracking the throttle. but you see the TPS .V going up. It was running lean 16.5-17

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Second video, I upped the FP to 58 or so, that definitely helped, but still lean 15.5, but it did help it run better, and lessned the stumble when I cracked the throttle

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[steve]

I can see you have a V2 DSMLink, can you post a log so we can see what it's seeing and what you have things set to.
I wouldn't be cranking on the fuel pressure but instead changing the injector global and deadtime to get the AFR's where you want them.

Which actual MAF did you wind up with.

 

[NineThrityONE]

I can see you have a V2 DSMLink, can you post a log so we can see what it's seeing and what you have things set to.
I wouldn't be cranking on the fuel pressure but instead changing the injector global and deadtime to get the AFR's where you want them.

Which actual MAF did you wind up with.

It's a 2g MAF.
I just turned up the FP just because it was the quickest way to see if it did anything, while it was running.

Well, thats the other main problem. as soon as the car starts the ECMLink software freezes. I've tried both a tablet (MS surface) and a laptop. (can I start another thread on that since its related to ECMLink, more than this project?)

I previously "reset" all the settings; here's some pics of where its currently in ECMLink

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[NineThrityONE]

I'm just getting my project running and I have a stand alone temp sensor just in front of the TB. Now in my previous set up there was no MAF. My intake temps were, at idle/start up just above ambient (80F*) and normally didn't get too much higher except for heat soak. But after installing the 1g ECU with 2G MAF, My intake temps were showing near 120 just after start (haven't driven the car yet) and I started to wonder if the temp sensor was bad, but after shutting the car off, the temp would start dropping immediately.

Is it the MAF that's heating the air that much?

 

[DSMPT]

Isn't this just the measuring spot difference?
Don't you have an intercooler? If so, pre intercooler v.s. post intercooler.

 

[steve]

Is this still the old Porsche you swapped the DSM ECU into?
Are we talking about the exact same sensor in the same location by the TB?
How were you measuring the temp both times?

There isn't anything in the 2G MAF that normally would heat up. The airflow measurement is done by ultrasonic counting of the vortices generated in the airflow not by measuring the cooling effect on a heated wire like a GM MAF. The two other sensors in the MAF are IAT and absolute barometric pressure and neither should be heating the air.

 

[NineThrityONE]

So I trimmed all the excess wiring and unneeded connectors and reconnected everything....almost, apparently, cause now no start.
Right now I see #24 the black with green, not connected coming off the ECU, where does that connect?

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[Drewpy Dawg]

In your diagram #24 is labeled "sensor ground." That connects to all the 5 volt sensors on the engine, such as MAF, TPS, etc. Apparently you cut that wire and now your sensors are dead. You need to find the other end and splice them back together. I hope you didn't pull that wire out of your harness. What was your reasoning for removing wires and connectors?

 

[NineThrityONE]

In your diagram #24 is labeled "sensor ground." That connects to all the 5 volt sensors on the engine, such as MAF, TPS, etc. Apparently you cut that wire and now your sensors are dead. You need to find the other end and splice them back together. I hope you didn't pull that wire out of your harness. What was your reasoning for removing wires and connectors?

Well, I was slightly wrong, it was actually #17 which is also "sensor ground", BUT! I did have it all wired to #24.... so I linked in #17 to those.... Still no start. Im not hearing the ISV activate. I somehow think im not getting power. But I do hear one of MPI relay click......Hrmmmmm

One thing im not clear on, but i am studying the Diagram, is the relays AT the battery. (fusible link?) there's only One wire connected there the Black with red stripe, the fat white wire is not connected?? (but I dont think it was connected before)


I had a whole rats nest, which was all on the engine side and wanted to trim it all and delete wires that werent needed, and then feed it back through the firewall

 

[luv2rallye]

Are you looking at the 1g electrical diagrams?
If not go here (https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-dsm-1990-1991-electrical-factory-service-manual.517382/), click his link, then download the file (90-91 Electrical.pdf). What year, engine, tranny is yours?

If you can't find what you want here's all Mitsu manuals: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/5k14qlaulb9s1/dsm_mitsubishi.

 

[NineThrityONE]

Ok fixed, looks like I didnt have power going to 110

 

[NineThrityONE]

I was having trouble getting the engine running with the V2 ECMLink, 1g system, with 2G MAF. Injectors are 630cc.
I at first adjusted the global and deadtime, going with the calculated settings, and the engine barely wanted to run, and would rev up and down and then die.

I then cut the Global and deadtime in half: Little change.
Finally after trying different things, I found the MAF setting "guide" plot points, where you could select "hacked 2g MAF" (but mine is not hacked?) and so I moved the setting about half way of the suggested, just to see what happens and it actually RAN!

It started, stayed running, and didn't rev bounce. It idles a bit high, and its running a little rich, bit its a start! (no pun intended)

And that's where I left it. But now I'm trying to understand why I had to adjust the MAF setting rather than the Fuel setting?

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[steve]

We've come a log way from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-efi-swap-what-do-i-need-to-make-it-work.548506/

Air flow or Fuel flow are two paths to the same destination. You'll note that the hacked MAF settings add air to what the MAF is reporting which in turn causes added fuel by the ECU. Changing the global also changes the amount of fuel across the board where changing the deadtime isn't linear. It's impacts the amount of fuel more at low injector pulse widths than at high, so bigger effect at idle vs WOT.

To some degree how the air reaches the MAF can have an effect of the measurement but I don't think it's as much as the difference between a stock MAF and a hacked one.

Please include the actual ECMLink log file along with any pictures you use to illustrate your question/issue. That shortcuts a bunch of questions that would usually follow like how much global and deadtime did you wind up with and how far from the stock 2G MAF Comp did it go. Also reminding people that this isn't a normal 4G63 tuning exercise is important since that's the expectation here.

 

[NineThrityONE]

We've come a log way from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-efi-swap-what-do-i-need-to-make-it-work.548506/

Air flow or Fuel flow are two paths to the same destination. You'll note that the hacked MAF settings add air to what the MAF is reporting which in turn causes added fuel by the ECU. Changing the global also changes the amount of fuel across the board where changing the deadtime isn't linear. It's impacts the amount of fuel more at low injector pulse widths than at high, so bigger effect at idle vs WOT.

To some degree how the air reaches the MAF can have an effect of the measurement but I don't think it's as much as the difference between a stock MAF and a hacked one.

Please include the actual ECMLink log file along with any pictures you use to illustrate your question/issue. That shortcuts a bunch of questions that would usually follow like how much global and deadtime did you wind up with and how far from the stock 2G MAF Comp did it go. Also reminding people that this isn't a normal 4G63 tuning exercise is important since that's the expectation here.

Well, right now I had to get the car out so i havent been able to mess with it, as im busy repairing other cars. However, aside from tuning right now, I cant get any logs, as as soon as I start the car, ECMlink stops responding.

Could You possibly give me some guesses on settings? just enough to get it driveable so i can get the car to my storage unit. (i was able to drive it around my apt complex, but didnt try give it much throttle, just needed to move it out of the garage)
Right now I have too much going on, and I just need it slightly better than it is right now.

It idles too high (and if I back off the idle screw any more, it wants to die (I Have idle set at 900 in ECM but its idling like at 1300) that being said, I didnt set the global and dead time back to the calculated setting, after figuring out the MAF correction is what made it run. (i was just like, it runs!! I gotta move it out the garage!)
I think its currently set at -33.2 and 345Usec

 

[steve]

If you haven't yet, make sure you have the latest software for both the ECU and the client side application. If you got the ECU with DSMLink used it might have old ECU software and there have been some bugs in the past.

v3firmwarechangelog [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

ECMTuning, Inc.

ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[NineThrityONE]

I did, but mine is version 2, not as much for that.
But if theres anyway I could get a guess on some baseline adjustments, since now I have to do it in the parking lot, can't repeatedly start the car, the neighbors will complain (again) since right now I have to set the ECU, start it, see what it does, then rinse and repeat. since I can't get logs currently, I just have to guess at the adjustments

 

[NineThrityONE]

getting back on this after fixing 2 other cars.
So as it stands, I can't do any live reading as the program freezes when the car starts. SO I have to see how its running, shut down. then try new settings.
Right now it idles high, even though I have it set at 900 and the 100yds I drove it, it was slightly lean around 14.7
Here are the current settings. Can I possibly get some suggestions as to what adjustment might put me on the right direction?

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[ItsTwan309]

Well, right now I had to get the car out so i havent been able to mess with it, as im busy repairing other cars. However, aside from tuning right now, I cant get any logs, as as soon as I start the car, ECMlink stops responding.

Could You possibly give me some guesses on settings? just enough to get it driveable so i can get the car to my storage unit. (i was able to drive it around my apt complex, but didnt try give it much throttle, just needed to move it out of the garage)
Right now I have too much going on, and I just need it slightly better than it is right now.

It idles too high (and if I back off the idle screw any more, it wants to die (I Have idle set at 900 in ECM but its idling like at 1300) that being said, I didnt set the global and dead time back to the calculated setting, after figuring out the MAF correction is what made it run. (i was just like, it runs!! I gotta move it out the garage!)
I think its currently set at -33.2 and 345Usec

backing your screw "out" makes Idle go up. Also you need to follow the proper procedure to mess with the biss screw.
warm car fully, ground timing connector, set biss to proper idle.
I dont think there are any updates for v2, you will need to send the ecu in and get v3. its like 250$
Without logging dont touch fueling, just get it to idle and upgrade ECMlink

 

[Stapl3]

But now I'm trying to understand why I had to adjust the MAF setting rather than the Fuel setting?

You didn't. Put the mafcomp setting for the correct MAF and zero out the sliders. Put in a global for 630s, put the base fuel pressure where it belongs, then adjust the hell out of deadtime until the car runs corretly.

 

[NineThrityONE]

You didn't. Put the mafcomp setting for the correct MAF and zero out the sliders. Put in a global for 630s, put the base fuel pressure where it belongs, then adjust the hell out of deadtime until the car runs corretly.

I am using a 2g MAF. previously I adjusted the Dead time and gobal, in various settings, but it wouldnt run (or barely) until I adjusted the MAF, using 630cc injectors