Odd starting issue. Clicks and does nothing.

[DeadlyScone]

I went out to my Car and tried to start it and got nothing. First thing i did was looked at the factory boost gauge and cel all checked out fine. Next i checked the starter relay, the ignition fuse, the battery fuse, and disconnected the clutch switch and still nothing. I figured it was the starter so me and my friend pushed it down the hill and it started that way. Got the new starter in And it still did not start. So we got the good ol volt meter out and tested the terminals on the starter. The hot lead read 13 and the other one read 0 even when trying to start it; although you can feel the solenoid moving in its casing. We recently installed a wb and moved the maf close to the tb. I also have a turbo timer btw. Any thoughts because me and my friends are out of ideas
Thanks,
Austin

 

[DeadlyScone]

The relay does click when you turn the key to the start position? If that is the case than it sounds like the starter relay is bad. If you are good with your hands and small parts than you can pull the cover off the relay and see what is wrong with it. Sometimes they have a bad solder joint, and sometimes the contact it just dirty on the switch.

Well we swapped relays out of my friends car that did work and start, and it still did not start.

 

[bryanwheat]

Well we swapped relays out of my friends car that did work and start, and it still did not start.

After looking at the schematic for it again the black/red wires should both have 12 volts when you turn the key to the start position. It sounds like possibly one of them does. When you turn the key the one that activates the relay is getting power, but the one that actually sends power to the relay is not. They are connected together according to the schematic. I would unplug the plug for the ignition switch and do a continuity from the black red in that harness to the relay. If you have continuity to one but not the other on the relay than you probably have a broken wire. I would pull the cover off the harness at this point and trace the wires from the ignition switch to the relay.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Alright so the relay was not the starter relay that we were playing with. anyways I tested the relay sockets that the wires go into and came up with THE ACTUAL RESULTS

------------
2 & 4 have 12v one i think has 12v when the key turns to START

1 has continuity

3 does not have any continuity even pressing and depressing the clutch pedal.
-----------------
^
I don't know exactly what terminal since i'am trying to remember off the top of my head, but i'am pretty sure this is correct.


WIRES THAT GO TO IT ARE

BLACK/RED
BLACK/WHITE
GREEN
BLACK/YELLOW

I tested the switch closest to the firewall(i'am guessing this is the ClutchSW) and both green and black wires have continuity with the clutch released(depressed).

the starter relay is functioning correctly btw.

 

[bryanwheat]

Alright so the relay was not the starter relay that we were playing with. anyways I tested the relay sockets that the wires go into and came up with THE ACTUAL RESULTS

------------
2 & 4 have 12v one i think has 12v when the key turns to START

1 has continuity

3 does not have any continuity even pressing and depressing the clutch pedal.
-----------------
^
I don't know exactly what terminal since i'am trying to remember off the top of my head, but i'am pretty sure this is correct.


WIRES THAT GO TO IT ARE

BLACK/RED
BLACK/WHITE
GREEN
BLACK/YELLOW

I tested the switch closest to the firewall(i'am guessing this is the ClutchSW) and both green and black wires have continuity with the clutch released(depressed).

the starter relay is functioning correctly btw.

The black yellow is the wire that goes to the starter, the green is the clutch wire ground, the black with red is the constant and the black with white is the trigger wire.

 

[DeadlyScone]

The black yellow is the wire that goes to the starter, the green is the clutch wire ground, the black with red is the constant and the black with white is the trigger wire.

wait, so the BLK/WHT is the wire that goes to the starter when key is on "START"? I traced it to another relay right above the fuse-box which clicks when you try to start it.

anyway, i'am not getting any continuity when i press or depress the clutch. There should be continuity when the clutch is pressed correct?

 

[bryanwheat]

wait, so the BLK/WHT is the wire that goes to the starter when key is on "START"? I traced it to another relay right above the fuse-box which clicks when you try to start it.

anyway, i'am not getting any continuity when i press or depress the clutch. There should be continuity when the clutch is pressed correct?

Yes, there should be continuity to ground. The black with yellow is the one that goes to the starter.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Yes, there should be continuity to ground. The black with yellow is the one that goes to the starter.

that's what i thought.

so to test this, since un-plugging the ClutchSW is not doing anything. Insert a terminal plug to socket 2 and ground it out to the body and if this is the problem, it should start correct?

I can't remember the #'s but, the bottom-left is the clutchSW right?

EDIT:

2 is the clutchSW?

 

[bryanwheat]

Yes, ground that terminal of the relay out to the body with a piece of wire. IT should start if that is the problem.

 

[DeadlyScone]

k ill give it a try when i get some time later today.

 

[DSMBanditFZ6]

What's the status update on this? Sorry I am kinda having the same problem.

I know the yellow and black wires go to the starter. But it also kinda runs with a couple of red wires. I have these going to my tranny. Is this right????

 

[mitsukid07]

Am I mistaken, or when a relay clicks does it automatically mean that its a bad relay? Only way I have been able to rule out bad relays are by smell, fried electrical components give it away every time, and as far as the starting problem I would make sure that your ignition switch is functioning properly.

 

[Geier]

Am I mistaken, or when a relay clicks does it automatically mean that its a bad relay? Only way I have been able to rule out bad relays are by smell, fried electrical components give it away every time, and as far as the starting problem I would make sure that your ignition switch is functioning properly.

Relays clicking typically means they are working. The click that you hear is the sound of the relay closing the circuit, thus completing the electric path.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Sorry if anybody has been following this. I have been somewhat busy and haven't been able to get around to it. I'am sending my turbo off in a couple days and once i get it back i will probably sit down and further my investigation on this. My thought is that my clutch switch is not grounding like i said previously.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Could this be a short? This figure is looking at the relay panel with the starter relay removed and testing with a multi-meter.

Terminal 1: has continuity with the body and the other end of the starter trigger wire(which I think is weird)

Terminal 2: Has no continuity to the body even with the clutch pressed/depressed.

Terminal 3: (which to my knowledge runs directly to the starter) has no continuity with the end of the wire at the starter but is seeing 12v when the key is on "start"

Terminal 4: also sees 12v when the key is on "start"

I also found what wire goes to what terminal on the panel and here they are,

T1: Red/Black (ignition wire)
T2: Green/Black (clutch ground)
T3: Yellow/Black (starter trigger wire)
T4: White/Black (I have no idea where this goes)

If somebody could test their car and let me know what results they get OR if something I said was incorrect please let me know. I'am not very good at reading the wiring diagrams in the book, just a FYI.

 

[bryanwheat]

Terminal 2 should have continuity to ground with the clutch pedal pushed in. Terminal one will not have continuity to ground UNLESS is is plugged into the starter. The reason is because the coil in the starter completes the circuit to ground. If it has continuity to ground with the wire un hooked from the starter than the wire is shorted to ground somewhere.

 

[DeadlyScone]

This is boggling my brain, so the red ignition wire runs to the starter? anyway, i was testing the end of the trigger wire with it unplugged from the starter and it was not touching anything. So there is a short somewhere on this wire then?

where does this wire run from and to?
Super sorry for all the questions, i just am having a hard time understanding it.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Terminal 2 should have continuity to ground with the clutch pedal pushed in. Terminal one will not have continuity to ground UNLESS is is plugged into the starter. The reason is because the coil in the starter completes the circuit to ground. If it has continuity to ground with the wire un hooked from the starter than the wire is shorted to ground somewhere.

I thought you said the yellow and black wire runs to the starter, not the red and black or is it the other way around?

 

[93 Eagle Talon TSi]

I can say that i don't know very much but I had this same problem and all i did was cleaned up the battery cables and all the connectors to the starter and it fired right up. The starter had power but the battery wasn't giving it enough power to crank the motor over. Even though they didn't looked not corroded or rusted i still cleaned them and it fired right up. I may be wrong and i may sound stupid but it really work, it was very odd. I don't know if you done this already, but if you didn't give it a try.

 

[DeadlyScone]

I can say that i don't know very much but I had this same problem and all i did was cleaned up the battery cables and all the connectors to the starter and it fired right up. The starter had power but the battery wasn't giving it enough power to crank the motor over. Even though they didn't looked not corroded or rusted i still cleaned them and it fired right up. I may be wrong and i may sound stupid but it really work, it was very odd. I don't know if you done this already, but if you didn't give it a try.

Does the red/black wire on the top left of the relay panel, Is it supposed to run to the starter? Because its the only wire that has continuity to the other end of the tracer wire.

 

[93 Eagle Talon TSi]

Does the red/black wire on the top left of the relay panel, Is it supposed to run to the starter? Because its the only wire that has continuity to the other end of the tracer wire.

Im not sure off hand but when i get to my shop tomarrow i will see. And i know that one terminal will have consant and when you crank it powers the other side. So i will update you tomarrow when i test it. But like i said before this clean your wires because there might not be enough power going through to crank it enough.

But im sure the green and black should have power and when the clutch is pressed in it will give power for the ignition wire to turn over the sarter. And i sure that the red and black go to the starter because red power for one terminal and black ground for ground terminal for the starter.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Im not sure off hand but when i get to my shop tomarrow i will see. And i know that one terminal will have consant and when you crank it powers the other side. So i will update you tomarrow when i test it. But like i said before this clean your wires because there might not be enough power going through to crank it enough.

thank you. Here were my results(you can refer to the figure a few posts above) and i have cleaned the terminals.
-

Terminal 1: has continuity with the body and the other end of the starter trigger wire.

Terminal 2: Clutch switch, which operates fine now.

Terminal 3: (which to my knowledge runs directly to the starter) has no continuity with the end of the wire at the starter but is seeing 12v when the key is on "start"

Terminal 4: also sees 12v when the key is on "start"

-
All i did was take my starter relay out and put my multi meter in the relay panel terminals. Hope you find something out.

Thanks.

 

[93 Eagle Talon TSi]

thank you. Here were my results(you can refer to the figure a few posts above) and i have cleaned the terminals.
-

Terminal 1: has continuity with the body and the other end of the starter trigger wire.

Terminal 2: Clutch switch, which operates fine now.

Terminal 3: (which to my knowledge runs directly to the starter) has no continuity with the end of the wire at the starter but is seeing 12v when the key is on "start"

Terminal 4: also sees 12v when the key is on "start"

-
All i did was take my starter relay out and put my multi meter in the relay panel terminals. Hope you find something out.

Thanks.

When i find where everything goes and the voltage i will update you right away. And my car might be different with voltage because the guy i bought it from bypassed from haveing to push the clutch in to start.

Have you tryed to start sence clutch switch works nowr?

 

[DeadlyScone]

When i find where everything goes and the voltage i will update you right away. And my car might be different with voltage because the guy i bought it from bypassed from haveing to push the clutch in to start.

Have you tryed to start sence clutch switch works nowr?

Ya i did. Sadly no dice. Brian said there is a short on the red/black wire that is causing it but he won't reply any more for some reason, probably tired of my questions

 

[93 Eagle Talon TSi]

Ya i did. Sadly no dice. Brian said there is a short on the red/black wire that is causing it but he won't reply any more for some reason, probably tired of my questions

Lol. But if theres a short wont it have no power. And try to trace thoses wires to see if there split or touching somthing thats making it short out. And ive seen where a starter wire lost the insalation and touched metal and sparks and has no power until there not touching anymore.

 

[DeadlyScone]

ya, its just brain is telling me the yellow and black runs to the starter, then all the sudden he tells me the red and black runs to the starter also. I just don't know what wire goes where now. According to the circuit diagram the tracer wire comes in contact with another relay before going to the starter.