Newly built 4g63 problem: hydraulic Lifters still noisy after installing new set of zero tick lifters

[cinemaemil]

My car is a Galant GTI engine swapped with 4g63 AMG engine. After running it for a few runs I noticed an engine lifter ticking sound. So I immediately replaced it with "top line zero tick lifters".

After installing a new set. We also changed oil it with 15w 40 Delo gold oil.

I did first start up with the car it still sounded pretty ticky. Assuming after a few minutes ticks will be gone but Ticking sound got even louder.

So we did a quick compression test. My car made 210,220,215,225. Everythings seem to be fine.

But ticking sound is still there. CAN ANYONE ENLIGHTEN ME?

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[cinemaemil]

Here is the video of the actual engine

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Did you pre bleed them in oil and leave them soft for the install?

Also off subject but what brand manifold is that? I cannot read it well enough in the pic

 

[cinemaemil]

Yes I did all the bleeding and leave them soft. Manifold is just stock for galant gti

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Yes I did all the bleeding and leave them soft. Manifold is just stock for galant gti

Exhaust manifold i mean, thats not stock.

Confirm with the valve cover on and open the oil cap when running if oils coming out nicely. If not then you have a blockage along the line of its bleeding off pressure. You should see a good amount of oil on the cam lobes as its turning over and running

 

[cinemaemil]

Exhaust manifold i mean, thats not stock.

Confirm with the valve cover on and open the oil cap when running if oils coming out nicely. If not then you have a blockage along the line of its bleeding off pressure. You should see a good amount of oil on the cam lobes as its turning over and running

Ill check that out. That makes sense

 

[dwb]

Are they brand new HLAs or used?
Assuming oil pressure is good in the head, it can take a while for new HLAs to bleed out. I think it took around 20-30 minutes of idling/blipping the throttle for my new topline HLAs to quiet down.

EDIT: There is some good info about noisy HLAs that were causing phantom knock in this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/r...nder-part-throttle-low-load-open-loop.543706/
Specifically page 3 has some videos that may be helpful.

 

[19Eclipse90]

…Also off subject but what brand manifold is that? I cannot read it well enough in the pic

JDMufflers is what the tag shows.

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

JDMufflers is what the tag shows.

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I tried to zoom in but on the phone it was not super clear. I was going to come back to it later on the PC but noce job helping with the name

 

[chrysler kid]

i always install the lifters hard, not sure why other guys install them soft.

when you install them soft they have to fill with oil from the head and take a while to fill up with oil again. there was a back and forth debate thread on the lifters and I pre bleed them with clean oil so they are filled when installed.

if you install them soft youre really just flushing the old oil out of them and installing them dry, so they need to be refilled by the oil flow from the head

so yeah they take a while to fill up with oil if you installed them without oil in them

 

[TerminalTalon]

i always install the lifters hard, not sure why other guys install them soft.

when you install them soft they have to fill with oil from the head and take a while to fill up with oil again. there was a back and forth debate thread on the lifters and I pre bleed them with clean oil so they are filled when installed.

if you install them soft youre really just flushing the old oil out of them and installing them dry, so they need to be refilled by the oil flow from the head

so yeah they take a while to fill up with oil if you installed them without oil in them

That’s what I thought but have always read bleed/soak with new oil and install so I hope one of the OG’s has a better explanation.

 

[danl]

That’s what I thought but have always read bleed/soak with new oil and install so I hope one of the OG’s has a better explanation.

The HLA's (they are technically not lifters) are fully bled for two main reasons. The first reason is that if pumped up too much they will make the camshaft difficult to install and will cause the valve to extend more than intended, increasing the chance of piston to valve contact. The second reason is that if pumped up too much, the valve can not fully close, and you will have no compression in that cylinder(s). With no compression, the engine will not start.

A healthy engine with good oil pressure to the head will fill the HLA's in just a few seconds. Check that you are getting good flow by removing the oil cap as suggested above.

I should note that people “get away” with priming the HLA’s likely because they are old or of low quality and leak down quickly. If you have a healthy set and pull a shenanigan like pumping them up before installing then you are in for a world of hurt. This is exacerbated when you have big boy cams and higher compression pistons like many of us do nowadays.

Finally, in the FSM Mitsubishi calls out using K1 kerosene to flush and bleed them. So there is that too…

 

[DSMPT]

If they are not bled properly, usually it would take some time to be quieter. Sometimes some hours, sometimes some days to drive.

What Bobby said above is like the video below.
Remove the oil filler cap, if you don't see the rocker arm is jetting oil like the video, like no oil coming or just overflowing/seeping out from the jetting hole or between the rocker arm and the HLA, then you have low or no pressure at the cylinder head for some reason. Hope this is not your case.
I don't know in what moment you took the pic above but it looks dry under the valve cover in the cylinder head if it was taken without wiping oil when you were replacing the HLAs with new. That makes me worried a bit.

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[dwb]

That tool is ridiculous, but here's how it's done in the FSM.

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[cinemaemil]

Are they brand new HLAs or used?
Assuming oil pressure is good in the head, it can take a while for new HLAs to bleed out. I think it took around 20-30 minutes of idling/blipping the throttle for my new topline HLAs to quiet down.

EDIT: There is some good info about noisy HLAs that were causing phantom knock in this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/r...nder-part-throttle-low-load-open-loop.543706/
Specifically page 3 has some videos that may be helpful.

HELLO GUYS. I had second opinions on a different mechanic. I found out it might be the balancer. Because I deleted mine. He said its not pushing enough oil to top of the engine. And he also advised me to use a thicker viscosity oil. Since im using 1g he recommended 20w 50 castrol oil.

 

[curt-s]

Before switching to 20w50, what were the bearing clearances for mains and rods?
How did he come to the conclusion that a thicker weight oil should be used?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

So you did a balance shaft delete and forgot to put the bearing in backwards to block the passage.

 

[DSMPT]

Most common causes why the head doesn't get sufficient oil/oil pressure is forgetting to block off the balance shaft oil holes when eliminating it or when rebuilding the engine, and when oil pickup tube gets broken after you crush the oil pan or so.
We are not sure what the issue is yet and I don't want to scare you but I strongly suggest not to run the engine anymore before making sure if the head is getting oil/oil pressure. Because if this would be the case, it would damage more parts, besides bearings and crank/rods it could kill the cylinder head and cams, too.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

As above dont run the engine. Also now you think its this issue best to take the cam caps off and check for wear incase its dried up and started to eat the caps and head. While there you might want to consider lubeing it all up so its fresh on it and helps protect for a bit till oil can move about to replace it.

Time to pull the engine and check that front balance shaft bearing or if not installed make sure to install one! Other way is to drill and tap it and then plug the outside up

 

[chrysler kid]

The HLA's (they are technically not lifters) are fully bled for two main reasons. The first reason is that if pumped up too much they will make the camshaft difficult to install and will cause the valve to extend more than intended, increasing the chance of piston to valve contact. The second reason is that if pumped up too much, the valve can not fully close, and you will have no compression in that cylinder(s). With no compression, the engine will not start.

A healthy engine with good oil pressure to the head will fill the HLA's in just a few seconds. Check that you are getting good flow by removing the oil cap as suggested above.

I should note that people “get away” with priming the HLA’s likely because they are old or of low quality and leak down quickly. If you have a healthy set and pull a shenanigan like pumping them up before installing then you are in for a world of hurt. This is exacerbated when you have big boy cams and higher compression pistons like many of us do nowadays.

Finally, in the FSM Mitsubishi calls out using K1 kerosene to flush and bleed them. So there is that too…

youre not wrong, but every time ive pulled them out and lined them all up together they are all the same height. even after I bleed and fill them one at a time, the new ones are the same height as the old ones.

im not using a micrometer or anything to dispute you, but installing them soft can cause a rocker arm to fall off until they fill with fluid.

I also take the camshafts out and replace valve stem seals when I pull the lifters.

if you're just pulling the lifters you have to install them soft anyways.

 

[curt-s]

My method this time, and they're older lifters (bought in 2009) was:

- bleed them out with the small alan key
- pump them with the valve open whilst submerged in diesel. Boy, that gets the crud out..
- take them out of the diesel and give it a few more pumps upside down to drain them
- make sure I can compress by hand

I think I resubmerged them in break-in oil and gave them a couple valve-open pumps just to displace the diesel.. but I honestly can't remember.

The important thing is when I put them into the head, I made sure they were compressable.


Clacked like a MF on start, and 10 minutes later was still clicking. I figured for years I had a couple that would bleed down after sitting because it took about 10-15 seconds after starting to shut them up but when I took them out, they were all rock hard. I bought eight spares (the revised revised ones? they look so different) but I have no idea which to replace

Idle oil pressure to the head has never been enough to shut these things up totally off a full bleed down, and they've been bled down 4 or 5 times during their life by now.