New Turbo No Boost

[dsmnthamakin]

Hey guys im stuck. I recently Purchased a super 20g turbo from e-bay because the waste gate actuator arm on my stock turbo rusted and broke off, causing my car not to boost. So i decided to upgrade. when i got my new turbo it would not produce any boost, all my vacuum lines are good, checked my piping to the front mount, i also tried hooking my MBC to try and change it but it did nothing. I checked the waste gate actuator and it seemed okay, so i thought maybe there is something internal on the turbo. I sent it back got it warrantied. Now i just installed my new one and still have nothing. plenty of vaccuum but still no boost i just Bent all new Piping for my front mount. i work at a shop so i have access to All-Data to do most checks but i am out of ideas. i have done all the basic checks except a boost leak test. but i figured since i just made all new piping that would kind of eliminate that right? Could there be something stuck in my intake manifold no letting it boost. because my BOV does not vent like it is supposed to, it still releases air but not the high pitch it would do under normal boost. this is my setup if it helps.
90 GSX
3in Turbo back exhaust
Stock 2.0 Block
GM MAF Translator ( so i can vent my HKS Ssqv)
Apexi Safc
Aem Uego
MBC (not hooked up right now just till i figure out whats wrong)
Front Mount (with 2.5 piping)
Walbro 255lph
Any help would be apprecitaed. I tried to find other forums but nothing that pertains to what i have.

 

[dsmnthamakin]

okay i will check tommorow. i checked it already but i will check again. question, how does the exhaust gas leave the housing?

 

[soccerplayaz16]

go to that video at the beginning or the thread 38 seconds in it shows the ehaust side of the turbo....if you compare your turbo to the one in the video yours has that port welded up....on an internal gated turbo that would be what regulates boost. If you remove that welded plate it is possible the flapper and arm are still there....but you might void any kind of warranty from that company. as your turbo sits right now it will require an external gate.....my best advice is call the company and explain to them you need a turbo that the flapper port is not welded shut....unless you want to run an external gate

 

[JusMX141]

go to that video at the beginning or the thread 38 seconds in it shows the ehaust side of the turbo....if you compare your turbo to the one in the video yours has that port welded up....on an internal gated turbo that would be what regulates boost. If you remove that welded plate it is possible the flapper and arm are still there....but you might void any kind of warranty from that company. as your turbo sits right now it will require an external gate.....my best advice is call the company and explain to them you need a turbo that the flapper port is not welded shut....unless you want to run an external gate

Did you not read any of my above posts? He DOESN'T need an external gate.

Have you ever seen a Hahn Super 20G?

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Look familiar? Obviously the actuator arm connects to SOMETHING or Hahn would be out of business by now.

 

[dsmnthamakin]

i understood what you said before. now my question is how do the exhaust gases leave the housing. and since it is a knock off could they have made a mistake? also this is a second turbo i have gotten from them because the first one did the same exact thing. and on the first turbo i adjusted the actuator then i took the arm completely off an did it with my hand and nothing.

 

[Bluefire16]

Well theres a twist...idk what to say now...

 

[soccerplayaz16]

well at this point all i can say i good luck and maybe talk to jusmx141 some more becasue he seems to know that turbo....i dont see how the exhaust gas can get out with the wastegate port being blocked even if the arm is connected......ive never seen one in person though

 

[gofer]

it does look A LOT different than the turbine housing's on most turbo's however, its still internally gated and he WILL NOT need to be running an external wastegate.


look at the turbine side real close, you'll notice that its a plate that connects to the o2 housing and the wg dumps behind it, meeting up again just after the turbine outlet. (so there is a flapper back there)

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as compared to a 16g...

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so getting to the original problem. you have no boost, but normal vacuum.
the flapper ISN'T welded shut behind that plate, if it was you'd be boosting out of control. (if you had no boost leaks) it can only be your wastegate actuator (wga) if its holding the flapper open and re directing the exhaust through the flapper not letting the turbo spool, then all you'd need to do is adjust the arm on it. (using that video posted at the beginning of this thread)

if the wga is working properly then finding the problem shouldn't be to hard, your nuking the problem. it could be the gasket inside the turbo that seals the compressor housing to the CHRA and if thats the case it would be a LOUD whining noise. (send the turbo back if its doing it cause its no good)
personally id save myself the headache of guessing and do a boost leak test, and if you don't have an air compressor or $80 to have the dealership check it for you in the mean time you can...
check the end tanks of your FMIC for cracks, again the piping (esp. the bov flange since you made the piping), and the TB shaft seals.

hope i helped a bit

 

[soccerplayaz16]

hmm i would think that would add tons on turbulance.....any idea why they do it that way?

 

[dsmnthamakin]

Alright i just checked my waste gate actuator it works fine. I can open it very freely with my hand,(with the arm off). still no boost. i will do a boost leak test

 

[dsmnthamakin]

Alright i did a leak test have no leaks. So this is another thing, when you give the car gas an the release the actuator should move correct? Well this is not moving at all. So the only thing i can think is the exhaust gasses are not leaving the housing. I am going to pull the pipe that connects to the downpipe an look inside for a port for the exhaust to be released. Idk what else to do. Would anything inside the motor have anything to do with it?

 

[gofer]

heres the deal...
you might not be leaking any boost out of the piping/intercooler/throttle body but if your wastegate actuator is holding the flapper open then your not giving your turbo a chance to spool and create boost. im not knocking ebay turbos because ive heard really good things however, you might need to adjust the wastegate actuator arm because they don't come pre adjusted from ebay store you bought it from.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/274251-video-how-test-wastegate-actuator-wastegate-functionality.html

that video is your golden ticket to boost.

 

[Jeff99GS]

The welds you are seeing IS NOT THE FLAPPER. The flapper is just beneath the welded plug.

If he were to remove the plug, there would be a huge exhaust leak as the downpipe they give you does not cover the hole.

This is simply a knockoff version of a Hahn Super 20G.

Yeah I realize that welded plug is NOT the flapper?!?!?! I thought maybe his downpipe covered that welded plug.


As I said earlier it seems that the turbine outlet and wastegate flapper outlet connect in the housing. Meaning that the EXHAUST gas and from the TURBINE and FLAPPER come out the SAME hole.


If the flapper is NOT sealing it will let all the exhaust gas passed the turbine without spooling up.

You SHOULD NOT just disconnect the rod and check it by hand...you have to use a air compressor with like 10-15 psi
You will need to disconnect the little rubber hose from the TURBO side and BLOW 10-15psi into that hose. This should make the flapper OPEN. Then when you let off the air, the flapper should close FULLY 100%
If it is NOT closed 100% then you will get LITTLE or NO boost.

 

[dsmnthamakin]

yeah i did all that. I checked with a compressor and the waste gate works just fine. Now this is my question, When i hit the gas and release the actuator should move and it does not. Does that mean the turbo is not producing enough pressure to release when i let off of the gas? I also called the company and they said that it was probably the waste gate actuator because that is the only thing that controls it from making any boost.

 

[Jeff99GS]

OKAY, I understand that you said you checked it and it MOVES...but you need to make sure that it closes 100%
Is it closing all the way?

as far as I know the wastegate and acuator will NOT move when you are revving the engine. It only moves when it builds boost to whatever PSI your MBC is set to.

Do you have a Boost controller or are you just using the factory setting off the turbo?

Try this test....take the little rubber hose off the turbo side and try to hit boost like that.... WARNING do NOT give it FULL throttle...cause the boost could climb TOO high very fast. Just keep and EYE on your Boost gauge

 

[dsmnthamakin]

It does close all the way. and as far as the test am i going from my air chuck to the turbo or from my air chuck to waste gate actuator? I have a regulator so i can control the amount of air pressure going in.

 

[soccerplayaz16]

yea dont let it see over 20 or so lbs from the compressor becasue you can blow out the diaphram

 

[gofer]

It does close all the way. and as far as the test am i going from my air chuck to the turbo or from my air chuck to waste gate actuator? I have a regulator so i can control the amount of air pressure going in.

not sure what an air chuck is but the way the vacuum hose is ran in the pictures you posted up earlier in the thread is the correct way to control boost from the wga. (vacuum hose from the nipple on the turbo compressor housing to nipple on the wga)

*be careful before you do this*
you can remove the vacuum hose between the wga and the turbo, then cap off the nipple on the turbo you pulled the vacuum hose off of. just be EXTREMELY careful going into the throttle and watch your boost gauge close... if you can't build boost after doing this then its the gasket in the turbo leaking and its nothing but bad news. send it back and get a new one from the ebay store you got it from (hopefully they comply) and tell them thanks for the 6 hours of headaches just to find out the turbo you bought from them was jacked.

good luck and keep us posted, ill try thinking of anything else it could be?

 

[Aphix]

An air chuck is just a valve with a trigger you hook up to your air compressor hose for like blowing shit around the shop.

You should hook up the air chuck to the WGA. And to test your MBC you would just put that in the vacuum line between the air chuck and WGA.

 

[dsmnthamakin]

So i haven't don't that test just yet i left my keys at home when i went to work. But to get it clear. I start the car and set the air pressure to about 10 psi then do i have sombody sit in the car an rev the car to a certain rpm while i try to boost it or how is that supposed to work? i don't want to do it wrong and break something. Right now i have the car on a flatbay at work so its not like i can put it in gear an drive to test boost. only idle, will that be enough to check it?

 

[dsmnthamakin]

I tried that test on the actuator and still got no boost. I had the car running and had my buddy rev it up to about 3500 rpm an tried with the compressor set to 10 psi but still got nothing. the company is sending me a new wastegate but i think im just goin to return thisand get my money back because it has been such a hassle. My car has been down for about 4 months now and it is still down because of this. I have one more question. Would me having this GM MAF Translator have anything to do with it? I'm sure it wouldn't but just a thought. Somebody also said something about a knock sensor being bad, I don't see how because the knock sensor picks up engine noise should have nothing to do with boost if im not mistaking . I just wish the turbo worked so i could drive my car.

 

[ATLDSM96]

you ahve to actually drive the car with the wastegate capped off to build boost, so the car is under a load. because jsut free revving will not do that for you, so go on a back street and keep a eye on the boost gauge and see if it builds any boost

 

[Turb07]

question i had my turbo has the port for the flap welded does it have another way for the exhaust gas to get around. i kno on the stock turbo it has another port for the gas to come out of straight into the exhaust well this one does not?

If you look into the turbine housing you will see there is a notch cut out which goes towards the flapper and that is how exhaust gas gets out!
Now those turbos are an old Mitsubishi Runt turbo which is based off of the syclone/typhoon style and the wastegate is set at 5 psi!
If you want more psi you will have to adjust it in to hold more boos but is not really designed to handle 15 - 20 psi!

just my $.02

Turbo

 

[dsmnthamakin]

I have officially decided to send the turbo back an get my $650 back too much of a hassle an still not working. I put my brothers stock 14b and it worked just fine. The company insist they have sold many of them without and problems but i have had no luck so im done. I might just shut the car down for the winter do a complete build for the spring and buy a GT35R spend a few more bucks. I might buy a stock turbo for the mean time if i can find one cheap enough. I appreciate everybodies help thanks alot.

 

[jrohner]

Did you ever check to see that the wastegate flapper actually is closed all the way? When you connect the WGA to the wastegate, it should pull slightly on the wastegate so that it is sealed shut.

If you are sending it back, just get an Evo 3 16G. Full spool B4 3 grand, and good for 400+ WHP with a good tune.

 

[dsmnthamakin]

well for right now im gonna get a 14b ### the say you can boost like 18 psi or so and i have supporting mods so if it holds that, it will be fine untill i decide to build up. then i think i want a gt30r my boy has it in his evo and it spools really good he is also putting down about 390whp. at least before he upgraded to bigger turbo an all that stuff so im kind of excited for my build.