New cooling setup, spal fans

[phunny]

So of course one of my fan motors lock up on one of the hottest days of the year on a hour and a half drive. And although driving with the heat on is a hobby of mine I've finally come up with my new cooling setup.

Here's some specs of my car so you can decide if it would work for your setup.

-FPred
-3" aluminum radiator
-3" fmic
-A/C condenser still in place
-Car has over 600awhp
-I am NOT sealing the FMIC to the Radiator

So far the plans are to go with 2 Spal Pulling fans
-30102044 13" 1720cfm
-30101504 13" 1260cfm
-FAN-PWM-V3 it's the programmable controller and I will be installing a separate sensor.

I also have a 143* thermostat on the way.


Any advice and or comments welcome, unless I deem you an idiot

 

[bmoha7321]

I'd like to see how this works out. I'll probably wind up doing something similar. I might just do a single 1700cfm fan since I'm sticking with the Hahn smic for now.

 

[phunny]

Update:

Everything is ordered and should be on its way. So far I've spent $487 and I'll probably have another $20 before its all said and done.

 

[Redwidow]

Please tell us more about this programmable controller, like how it works, what it does and such

 

[phunny]

Please tell us more about this programmable controller, like how it works, what it does and such

Will do. I'm actually very excited about it. I'm thinking with the 143* thermostat the ability to tell the fans when to turn on and off and only running them half speed is going to be invaluable.

 

[gofer]

Three questions and I'm not questioning your ideas, just why you chose to go with what you did is all.

1. Why did you go with pullers on the inside of the engine bay that are in the way and could possibly melt from exhaust temps?
2. Why the decision to install a separate fan controller when ECMLink can control fan turn on/off temps?
3. I see the half speed feature as a convenience but don't understand the benefit of having it, when would you need to use it?

 

[phunny]

Three questions and I'm not questioning your ideas, just why you chose to go with what you did is all.

1. Why did you go with pullers on the inside of the engine bay that are in the way and could possibly melt from exhaust temps?
2. Why the decision to install a separate fan controller when ECMLink can control fan turn on/off temps?
3. I see the half speed feature as a convenience but don't understand the benefit of having it, when would you need to use it?

Great questions.
I went with pullers so I could get a higher output fans. I was originally going to go with one puller(passenger side) and one pusher(drivers side) but do to me still running a/c(so the condenser is in the way) I didn't want to prevent any air from not going through the radiator. To protect the fan I wrapped it.

As far as the controller, I wanted the ability to control the fans separately and depending on how things work out I may install a 3rd fan that pulls through the fmic. Not to mention the 2 stage sounds great to me

 

[99gst_racer]

Pullers usually function a bit better than pushers, so good choice there. And you won't have to worry about melting SPALs. I've ran wastegates and dumptubes within 1/4" of my SAPL fans and I've never melted or deformed one. They use a pretty awesome polymer.

Why aren't you sealing the FMIC to the radiator? This has proven to have noticable benefits by itself. Does the car still have a working A/C system? I hope you can get that 13" fan to seal flat against the radiator core without it overlapping onto the end tanks. I know 12" fans fit great, but I can't remember if there's enough room for a 13".

 

[LiquidX]

Pullers usually function a bit better than pullers,

Caught you before the ninja edit!

I agree with Paul on this, when I was trying to fit my 12" pusher onto the front of the radiator, I had to seat it on the 2 flat ends otherwise it would over lap. The difference in CFM between the comparable 12" and 13" isn't too much and it would be better to have a better fit than 40 more CFM.

 

[phunny]

Pullers usually function a bit better than pushers, so good choice there. And you won't have to worry about melting SPALs. I've ran wastegates and dumptubes within 1/4" of my SAPL fans and I've never melted or deformed one. They use a pretty awesome polymer.

Why aren't you sealing the FMIC to the radiator? This has proven to have noticable benefits by itself. Does the car still have a working A/C system? I hope you can get that 13" fan to seal flat against the radiator core without it overlapping onto the end tanks. I know 12" fans fit great, but I can't remember if there's enough room for a 13".

Yeah it will fit perfectly with 1/4" on each side, top and bottom . I was originally not going to duct it but I'm going to now. I just ordered the plastic to duct her in.

Caught you before the ninja edit!

I agree with Paul on this, when I was trying to fit my 12" pusher onto the front of the radiator, I had to seat it on the 2 flat ends otherwise it would over lap. The difference in CFM between the comparable 12" and 13" isn't too much and it would be better to have a better fit than 40 more CFM.

I will also more than likely be placing it on the flat ends. I wanted it to cover as much as possible so I would pull the maximum amount of air without pulling engine air back through the radiator and then have it run through the radiator

 

[awdmonster1904]

So of course one of my fan motors lock up on one of the hottest days of the year on a hour and a half drive. And although driving with the heat on is a hobby of mine I've finally come up with my new cooling setup.

Here's some specs of my car so you can decide if it would work for your setup.

-FPred
-3" aluminum radiator
-3" fmic
-A/C condenser still in place
-Car has over 600awhp
-I am NOT sealing the FMIC to the Radiator

So far the plans are to go with 2 Spal Pulling fans
-30102044 13" 1720cfm
-30101504 13" 1260cfm
-FAN-PWM-V3 it's the programmable controller and I will be installing a separate sensor.

I also have a 143* thermostat on the way.


Any advice and or comments welcome, unless I deem you an idiot

It really sounds like a good setup you got going I'm just wondering why a 143* thermostat ?? What's the benefits of it being so low ??

 

[phunny]

It really sounds like a good setup you got going I'm just wondering why a 143* thermostat ?? What's the benefits of it being so low ??

It's more just to test it for the community. Since DSM's are notoriously hot, I thought I'd see how some different setups work out.

 

[LiquidX]

Charlie, if that's the case, you should take a look at my recent journal entry for some information.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/liquidx/2930-attacking-my-cooling-problem-part-3.html

At the bottom there is some data information that I gathered today.

 

[phunny]

Charlie, if that's the case, you should take a look at my recent journal entry for some information.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/liquidx/2930-attacking-my-cooling-problem-part-3.html

At the bottom there is some data information that I gathered today.

Glad to see you got some testing done today. I was just telling my fiancee that I think I'm going to get a cf hood in the very near future. I was never a believer in the stock hood theory. Just never made sense especially because heat rises and it would obviously get rid of the hottest air.

 

[LiquidX]

I'm a huge believer now after seeing how much temperature drop occurred when the hood was open, it was about a 20*-30* drop in about 4 minutes with the wastegate 1.5" away from the radiator. If you have the means, I would consider wrapping the water pipe as well which I'm thinking of doing and getting a turbo blanket when one is setup for a Holset.

Hopefully with all of those combined the temps should lower a good bit as well, but only testing will verify that.

 

[phunny]

Charlie, if that's the case, you should take a look at my recent journal entry for some information.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/liquidx/2930-attacking-my-cooling-problem-part-3.html

At the bottom there is some data information that I gathered today.

Glad to see you got some testing done today. I was just telling my fiancee that I think I'm going to get a cf hood in the very near future. I was never a believer in the stock hood theory. Just never made sense especially because heat rises and it would obviously get rid of the hottest air.

 

[awdmonster1904]

Any updates on the thermostat ?

 

[TSITurbo95]

Why not just go with a fan/shroud setup with ducting? As stated ducting has been proven to cool better. Also, I use to have over heating issues with my ac on, and once I heat wrapped the exhaust, o2, downpipe and blanket my turbo, and installed my fan shroud I no longer over heat. Never tested it without the shroud when I wrapped the exhaust stuff though.

 

[phunny]

Any updates on the thermostat ?

It's here but I'm waiting on the fans :/

Why not just go with a fan/shroud setup with ducting? As stated ducting has been proven to cool better. Also, I use to have over heating issues with my ac on, and once I heat wrapped the exhaust, o2, downpipe and blanket my turbo, and installed my fan shroud I no longer over heat. Never tested it without the shroud when I wrapped the exhaust stuff though.

Originally I just wanted to test a 143* thermostat but then a fan failed so I had to regroup and just decided to do it all

 

[TSITurbo95]

Ok gotcha.

 

[ktgurl87]

Not meaning to thread jack, but the GST gets a hair warm as well. Which turbo blanket fits the 16g?

 

[TSITurbo95]

I ordered mine with PTP Turbo Blankets, their Suburu blanket fits 14b, t28, t28, 16g, 18g, 20g (mine fits snugly on my 20g).

 

[LiquidX]

If you all want info on the 143, I have a couple threads and a journal entry entailing it. Depending on tue temperature outside I've been running as low as 173*. With the hood up and idling with the fans on I can maintain a 160* temp.

If you can remove trapped heat from under the hood the lower t stats will work better as long as you can also remove the heat from the coolant.

 

[ktgurl87]

I'm just tired of replacing slim fans :\

 

[gofer]

If you all want info on the 143, I have a couple threads and a journal entry entailing it. Depending on tue temperature outside I've been running as low as 173*. With the hood up and idling with the fans on I can maintain a 160* temp.

If you can remove trapped heat from under the hood the lower t stats will work better as long as you can also remove the heat from the coolant.

Seems like you could eliminate your fans too if you put on a vented hood so you could move the heat out of the engine bay while the cars sitting still.

Noticed any changes with your tune with those low coolant temps? I've done a bit of reading in the past and pulled this from a LS1 Tech site, it makes sense though and doesn't seem specific to any platform. If running too low of a coolant temperature it seems it contaminates the oil, which could lead to engine failure... at least thats what I'm reading from the article below.

Proper Coolant Temperature and Camshaft Life!

Have you ever tried to find what proper coolant temperature is for most automotive engines? There are a lot of people who think they know, but it is difficult to find specifics, even in textbooks. We know we want the intake air to be as cold as possible (for best power) because cold air is denser (there are more oxygen atoms per cubic foot). The coolant temperature, however, is a different matter. The internal combustion engine changes chemical energy stored in gasoline into heat energy that is focused on the piston tops. If the cylinder heads and engine block are too cold, they will absorb much of the combustion heat before it can be used to push the piston down the cylinder. If the engine gets too hot, engine lubricants can break down, as well as overheating of the intake charge can lead to detonation, etc.

It turns out that coolant (usually a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water) has some fantastic properties that are ideal for use in engines. With a properly pressurized cooling system, coolant will not freeze until –30°F, and it won't boil until +270°F (new oils don't start to break down until well over 270°F). With these characteristics, engine designers have decided that engines should operate at approximately 210-215°F. Why, you ask? Well, it has to do with operating the engine at a high enough temperature to boil water out of the oil after the engine is cold started. If you have dew on the grass, it is certain that you have water in your oil, as the crankcase is open to atmospheric pressure! You can either remove the water by draining it out the bottom of the oil pan (remember the oil floats on water) or run the engine long enough and hot enough to boil the water out of the lubrication system. Years ago, coolants weren't as sophisticated and engines were run at 165-180F, but the oil was changed every 1000 miles or so. That's why many old timers think engines should run at 165-180F. Have you ever noticed that Ford doesn't put temperature marks on their gauges? They just mark C for cold and H for hot and write "normal" through the center. If you hook up a scan tool to a GM, you will often find that the gauge reads much lower than the coolant temp sensor. That is because they know most drivers don't understand how hot an engine should run.

So what does this have to do with camshafts? Many enthusiasts erroneously think that the colder their engine runs the better! If they are not running the engine hot enough to boil the water out of the oil, the oil becomes contaminated and the lifter/cam lobe interface is the highest load point in the engine. Engines running too cool can contribute significantly to camshaft and lifter failure. Think about it: What good does it do to use the most expensive synthetic oil and then run the engine so cold that it is contaminated by water vapor??!! Another point, piston manufacturers' piston-to-wall clearance recommendations assume you will be running the fully warmed engine at 200°+F. Run the engine too cold, and you could see some scuffed pistons because the cylinders had not expanded enough to provide clearance.

If your engine will only run its best at the drag strip with the engine at 165°F, you probably have too cold of a spark plug heat range and you are probably jetted way too rich! If you keep the engine hot (not the intake charge), you will be using more of the heat energy in the gasoline to make power instead of just heating up your block. It does take "tuning know-how" to run an engine at 200-210°F, but you might be surprised how well and how long it runs when you do!! One final point - running a computer managed engine at 165°F compared to the factory 210°F will often cost you as much as 4 MPG. The reason for this is that the computer thinks that the engine is not off the "choke cycle" and it is still putting out a rich mixture! Check the science on this and don't pay attention to the "old wives tales" of the past. Materials and lubricants are much better and different today than they were in the past!!