Need Help? I broke something!

[TSIkw]

OK, so I was driving around 55mph and downshifted to 3rd...pulled through the top of 3rd and went to shift into 4th and I think it kicked over to 2nd and I redlined (my transmission isn't in the best shape). I then put it right into 5th and let off the gas; the car started backfiring immediately. After that when I gave it gas the turbo spooled but the car hardly moved. The idle then dropped down around 500rpm and giving it gas did nothing. After a couple starts it finally started to rev and I got it home. When I popped the hood the manifold was glowing really bright. Now the car starts right up and will idle "OK" but vacuum is only at 10 and it will rev till around 2500rpm then starts spitting and breaking up. Also, I think the timing belt jumped because the belt cover is now cracked at the front bolt on top.

I need to know what to start looking at first. Valves?, Timing?, Injectors?

Mod List:
DSM Link
VRS 3" Turbo back w/high flow cat
Boost Gauge
Manual boost Controller Running 15psi
190 Walbro (rewired)
ported 14b
ported 1g o2 housing
Excel plug wires and NGK 7ES plugs

 

[larsenracing]

nothing with the injectors but yes you could have jumped the belt also bent a valve or burnt one otherwise you blew a piston ring from over reving. but i hope for the best from you let us know what happened when you figure it out. good luck.

 

[9awd4g63tsi2]

If you have access to one, stick an airhose into your plug hole and thread it to make a good seal(obviously make sure the air hose has a threaded fitting on the end). Blow air through. Air coming out of dipstick tube=blown rings. Air coming out of exhaust manifold=burnt or bent exhaust valve. Air coming out of intake track=burnt or bent intake valve.

 

[TSIkw]

Thanks for the tip...i might be able to get my hands on one. I'll be working on it tonight and this weekend so i'll let you know what i find.

 

[PaulN]

If you think you jumped time don't do anything else until you check it. Look at the VFAQ for help in completing this.

 

[kronix0420]

if you jumped timing and bent some valve you are lookin at like a $2000 fix

 

[spidy3]

$2000??? sorry but thats a bit much dont ya think? You could buy a new head for alot less than $2k loaded minus cams. Esp. if its only bent valves, no damage to pistons or head it'll be about $3-400 for valves, valve job and depending on how the valve guides are. Plus doing his own work of course. And yes you will be doing it yourself TSiKW. (but with some supervision of course )



Dom

 

[PaulN]

if you jumped timing and bent some valve you are lookin at like a $2000 fix

WTF I figured 800 bucks at the most. My timing belt broke and I have found everything I need including a turbo rebuild kit for around $800 bucks. Course, I am doing the work myself and it could be cheaper if it weren't for my turbo needing rebuilt.

Parts Dinosaur 4G63 4G63T NEW Water Pump 89 - 94
$44.85

Parts Dinosaur 4G63 4G63T Accessory Belt Package
$29.90

Parts Dinosaur 4G63 Mitsubishi DOHC Intake Valve
$6.90 x 8 = 55.20

Parts Dinosaur 4G63 Mitsubishi DOHC Exhaust Valve
$8.90 x 8 = 71.20

Slow Boy Balance Shaft Elimination Kit -$42.00

Slow Boy Mitsubishi Metal 4G63 Head Gasket - $89.99

Slowboy DSM Turbo Gasket Kit - $60.00

Slowboy Timing Belt Kit (Includes new pullies, tensioner and belt) - $176.00

Slowboy Upper Gasket Set - $98.99

ebay Turbo Rebuild Kit - $81.99

Miscellaneous items such as head studs I haven't sourced yet. Do some research you can do this job for WAY LESS THAN $2000. Heck for $2000 you could probably redo the whole engine nicely.

 

[babell2]

I did a rebuild on my engine using ARP everything and only have $1400.00 in it

 

[spidy3]

So we took TSiKW's car apart today and found out balance shaft belt broke. Question is..... what should be looked at? like problems that are caused when BS belt breaks?

we cranked motor over by hand and everything seems ok. didnt feel like any valves were hitting. Took valve cover off and cranked over motor by hand again and all valves looked like they were moving fully up and down.

Dom

 

[rowlex]

So we took TSiKW's car apart today and found out balance shaft belt broke. Question is..... what should be looked at? like problems that are caused when BS belt breaks?

we cranked motor over by hand and everything seems ok. didnt feel like any valves were hitting. Took valve cover off and cranked over motor by hand again and all valves looked like they were moving fully up and down.

Dom

Check all the timing belt timing marks, if you havent already. usually when the balance belt goes it will take the timing belt with it or make it jump.

I would check to see if the balance shaft still spins easily (making sure the bearing is still good). And if it is just replace the belt and its idler pulley. Unless you guys want to do the balance shaft elimination which I will let you search for as I have not done it.

Run a compression test on the engine after you have done what your going to do and checked, then crank engine over by hand, then recheck your timing marks.

 

[spidy3]

ya sorry didnt put in that timing does look like it jumped a tooth. we are going to redo that of course. I turned the BS by hand and it moved freely so that seems ok.

Anything else to look for that it could have messed with?
I cant think of anything but figured i'd post this and see what everyone else has to say. I have a decent knowledge of cars and dsms but by no means am I a "wiseman"

Dom

 

[rowlex]

ya sorry didnt put in that timing does look like it jumped a tooth. we are going to redo that of course. I turned the BS by hand and it moved freely so that seems ok.

Anything else to look for that it could have messed with?
I cant think of anything but figured i'd post this and see what everyone else has to say. I have a decent knowledge of cars and dsms but by no means am I a "wiseman"

Dom

Not that I can think of, might be a good idea to drain the oil and check for shavings from the balance shaft bearings also. Depending on what you wanna do id either throw a new balance shaft belt on (with new idler pulley) or do the balance shaft removal stuff.

Then line the timing up, turn it over a few times by hand, (recheck timing) then see if it will start up, if it does, or doesnt run a compression test.
I would also replace that timing belt.

EDIT: A single tooth is not very bad. I've worked on a car where the belt was off about 2.5 teeth thing ran decently but obviously not well. Jumped the timing back to normal and it has been running great since.

 

[TSIkw]

OK...so we got the car back together. replaced all the belts and thought we would good to go. but i am having the same problem as before...the car is idling rough and once i go above 2300 rpm there is no power; the engine just bogs down if i give more gas. Also, anything over 2300 i'm getting a sustained 10-15 counts of knock. The timing isn't set perfect but its should be close enough to run better than it is; so i don't think its a timing problem.

I also put new plugs in and the compression is about 125 on every cylinder (not sure what it was at before this happened)

The valves seemed fine when we looked at them...is it possible they are bent just enough that they are still tight on the rockers but not functioning properly?

 

[Snobordin8]

If you have access to one, stick an airhose into your plug hole and thread it to make a good seal(obviously make sure the air hose has a threaded fitting on the end). Blow air through. Air coming out of dipstick tube=blown rings. Air coming out of exhaust manifold=burnt or bent exhaust valve. Air coming out of intake track=burnt or bent intake valve.

Just curious, but where is the air supposed to go in this case, is there not supposed to be air coming out anywhere?

 

[TSIkw]

it is basically a homemade compression tester. If there are no leaks then you will just build pressure and when you remove the hose it will come out the spark plug....

i used an actual compression tester and didn't notice any leaks. Spoke to another mechanic i know and he told me that if my compression is around 125 then he doesn't think my valves are bent (i know thats kind of low still but at 150,000 miles what are you gonna do, not ready for a rebuild yet); anyways it could still just be the timing or my balance shaft belt isn't lined up right. so i guess i'll be taking it in to have it looked at cause i don't have to time to take it apart again.

If anyone has any more ideas please help!

 

[TSIkw]

oh yeah...if i'm wrong on that whole homemade compression tester let me know but i think that is what the whole air hose idea is and where the air goes.

I'm still new with dsm's and learning as i go.

 

[Scrubulum]

The homemade compression tester is an okay way to test compression but you have to remember that depending on where the cams are you are going to have valves open. You have to rotate the engine to the compression stroke after the intake closes and before the exhaust closes. It is a pretty difficult way to check compression especially considering the easiest way to get a hose that screws into the spark plug threads is to just buy a compression tester. Come on people they aren't that expensive and is a good tool for any mechanic to have around.

 

[rowlex]

What was described in the above posts as a "home-made compression" tester is actually referred to as a leak down test. As you are not able to measure compression with it.

When performing that test you also have to make sure all 4 valves on that particular cylinder are closed.

 

[TSIkw]

Thanks...I wasn't sure what it was called. I didn't do that though I just did a compression test.

Do both tests tell you the same thing or is the leak test a better idea to pinpoint a leak if one exsists.

 

[rowlex]

Do both tests tell you the same thing or is the leak test a better idea to pinpoint a leak if one exsists.

Both tests will tell you if somethings wrong - the compression test is an easy quick test that will tell you basically if everything is ok, or not. A leak down test comes next and will help you find out almost exactly what is wrong.

 

[oldman]

When performing that test you also have to make sure all 4 valves on that particular cylinder are closed.

aka TDC.

 

[drivemusicnow]

preform a leak down test. This will tell you that you most likely burned a valve.

Post your compression test numbers, as well as if you found any air leaks with the leak down test.

 

[rowlex]

preform a leak down test. This will tell you that you most likely burned a valve.

Post your compression test numbers, as well as if you found any air leaks with the leak down test.

He already posted them:

I also put new plugs in and the compression is about 125 on every cylinder (not sure what it was at before this happened)

121 is the service limit for the 1G's. So you are nearing a rebuild if your compression is low not due to bent valves. Try this if you dont have the tools required for the leak down test: warm the car up if possible, pull all the plugs again, drop a capfull of oil in each cylinder(one at a time?) and re-run a complete compression test. This will give you a better idea weather or not its your valves. If you compression jumps up 30+ psi it's time for a rebuild.

To explain brifely: the oil will aid in sealing the gap around your piston rings if they are worn.

EDIT: Another thing you can check (although it probably would have been easier to do before when you had the timing sheild off) is your crank angle sensor. I don't know how different the sensor's are on 1g v. 2g. but a buddy of mine with his 2G, over-revved it to like 9 grand and he bumped his crank sensor out of position. The car ran fine under normal low rpm driving but would break up and knock around 3K+

 

[TSIkw]

Alright, I don't have the tools for a leak down test nor the time at this point...so I took it in to a shop today and it's being looked at. Hopefully i'll find out today or tomorrow whats going on with it and i'll let everyone know.

I appreciate all the help. Now i'm just praying