My 6 bolt swap issues

[TuRBoTaLooN]

I'm nearing the end of my 6 bolt swap into my 95 tsi awd. I've been posting on a local forum (LINK) about the entire process from figuring out what I want to do, to updates with pics, questions, etc.

So I wanted to post here for two reasons:

1) To share this thread from another forum as it may be useful to someone on here doing a similar project.
2) To have some input from you guys as I run into some minor issues.

If this is not the correct area to post in, my apologies. Please move to the correct section.

Anyway, here's a QUICK synopsis of what's happened in the last 6 months or so.

Last season I spun a rod bearing in my 150K stock 7 bolt so I decided to go 6 bolt. I got a built 6 bolt short block with forged internals, etc. Rebuilt a stock 7 bolt head, all new gaskets/bearings/bolts/etc. The whole project was a big learning experience, but I finally got the new motor together, in the car, and it's almost ready to go.

So everything is connected/hooked up and I tried to start the car last night. I cranked it in ~10second intervals for 2-3 minutes with fuel pump and coil pack disconnected to get oil in the system. Then I got the fuel pump connected and coil pack plugged in. I hookedup DSMLink to set the fuel for 880 injectors. Now this is DSMLink V3, and I've only used V2 previously.

Anyway, I go to start the car and the first 2-3 cycles seems like it is going to catch and kick over as I hear some combustion happening, but then it just cranks over without combustion. I waited a few minutes and tried again and got the same thing. Now I checked that the fuel pump is on and running, so I'm getting fuel. I set fuel pressure to ~43.5psi (2g). I have a 1g (green top?) CAS hooked up and wired into my 2g harness, and my plug wires are in reverse order. Now I remember on DSMLink V2 there was a "Invert CAS" check box that I had to check to start it up. On V3 I just see "Use non 95/96 CAS" so I'm not sure really what to do with that. I did not play with it last night as it was late and dark out. I also did not check spark, but I'm assuming I get spark since I heard some combustion.

Please provide any input you feel appropriate. Thanks!

 

[black_gst]

since you have a are useing a green top are you sure you wired everything correctly. also are both your cam and crank sensors hooked up and working. i have a 95 and just did the 6 bolt swap and i am running a black top CAS and removed both the crank and cam sensor. how is yours set up?

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

since you have a are useing a green top are you sure you wired everything correctly. also are both your cam and crank sensors hooked up and working. i have a 95 and just did the 6 bolt swap and i am running a black top CAS and removed both the crank and cam sensor. how is yours set up?

Sorry, I should have specified. I had the 1g CAS running on my 7 bolt last year before blowing up the 7 bolt motor. I wrote up a how-to article actually. I removed both sensors and had my buddy wire the 1g cas into the both the crank and cam sensor harnesses. I switched the order of the spark plug wires and selected "Invert CAS" on DSMLink V2 and it ran fine. So the wiring is the same now as it was on my 7 bolt. I'm thinking it's just a setting in DSMLink for the CAS since this issue seems familiar to when I switched to the 1g CAS last year and forgot to check "Invert CAS"

 

[black_gst]

o ok yeah you just need to select using non 95/96 CAS and thats it.. i have V3 also

 

[snowborder714]

Also uncheck the Cylinder Misfire box in the DTC window to keep it from throwing the common 6 bolt random misfire code.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Thanks guys,

Well basically the vac line from the brake booster to the IM was unplugged, so I got that in there. Zip tied a few other vac lines to be sure, gave a quick once over and tried again. I got the car to idle, but it idled VERY rough. It hovered around 350-400RPM, -10 vac, and barely chugged along so I immediately turned it off. I then decided it would be a good idea to have my oil pressure and w/b gauges connected, so I spent the rest of the day doing that.

For next time my list of things to check are:
1) Base timing
2) Vac/boost leaks
3) Compression
4) Spark
5) General once over

Not necessarily in that order though.

Any other suggestions? Thoughts? Comments?

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Well let's just say I was a complete idiot. I had the plug wires in some weird order that was in no way correct. I plugged them in in this order: 2-3-1-4 because I have a 1g CAS. I also picked up a new battery and made sure everything else was connected and such. I hooked up DSMLink V3 and set fuel and such and she turned over!

Unfortunately I decided not to use any of the OEM oil pressure sending units when I put on the 6 bolt OFH. I only hooked up an aftermarket electric oil press gauge. Apparently I didn't connect it right because it just read 0psi when the car was running. Needless to say I just turned it off right away.

Now I can't figure out how to wire this thing. It's a ProSport electric oil pressure gauge. The sending unit has two posts. The instructions say NOTHING about the sending unit, just the wiring for the gauge. It says one wire is supposed to go from the gauge to the sending unit (signal wire). So I ran that wire. The other post on the sending unit says ground, so I grounded it. I am not running a 12v power to it because there is nowhere else to hook it up? The website says if it is pegged at 0 then its not getting a 12v power. I tried calling but they were closed last night so I'll try again today I guess. Any ideas?

 

[Jeff99GS]

You need to hook up the 12 volts man. The signal from the sender unit is NOT enough to power up the gauge.

Does the gauge have this connector on the back for a plug to attach?

 

[mikelv]

One other thing to keep in mind when running an electrical oil pressure guage. If you do not run a SS braided line off of the oil filter housing and mount the pressure sending unit on the firewall or away from the engine, you're going to end up replacing them often. The engine vibration (almost always in a built motor/cams) will knock the sending unit out.
My suggestion is to spend the 30 bucks or so on a line and don't every worry about losing a reading again.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

You need to hook up the 12 volts man. The signal from the sender unit is NOT enough to power up the gauge.

Does the gauge have this connector on the back for a plug to attach?

If I recall, the gauge has:

(2) 12v power wires
(1) ground wire
(1) signal wire
(1) wire to headlights

These are correctly connected. The signal wire goes to the sending unit.

The sending unit has two posts. One says ground, the other is for the signal wire. The sending unit does not have a 12v power source, but I have no idea where to hook it up to.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

One other thing to keep in mind when running an electrical oil pressure guage. If you do not run a SS braided line off of the oil filter housing and mount the pressure sending unit on the firewall or away from the engine, you're going to end up replacing them often. The engine vibration (almost always in a built motor/cams) will knock the sending unit out.
My suggestion is to spend the 30 bucks or so on a line and don't every worry about losing a reading again.

That's a good idea. I didn't think of that when I ordered the gauge.

 

[Jeff99GS]

If I recall, the gauge has:

(2) 12v power wires
(1) ground wire
(1) signal wire
(1) wire to headlights

These are correctly connected. The signal wire goes to the sending unit.

The sending unit has two posts. One says ground, the other is for the signal wire. The sending unit does not have a 12v power source, but I have no idea where to hook it up to.

Oh I see what you're saying...NO the sending unit shouldn't have 12v to it. Maybe you just got a defective unit. As long as you have 12v/ground and signal to the gauge it should work fine.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Oh I see what you're saying...NO the sending unit shouldn't have 12v to it. Maybe you just got a defective unit. As long as you have 12v/ground and signal to the gauge it should work fine.

Or I have no oil pressure????

 

[Jeff99GS]

Hook the stock one back up and see what it says. Did you prime the oil pump before you put the engine in?

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Yes, I primed the engine before I started it. And I looked for the oem sending unit wire coming off the harness and I guess I broke the plastic clip that snaps to the OFH and connects the wiring.

So I called the company about the aftermarket gauge/sending unit and I had it wired correctly. The sending unit just has a signal wire and a ground, no 12v power to it. Just the gauge gets 12v power. The guy was relatively familiar with DSMs and said I should try the other port on the OFH.

Now I had the sending unit in the rear where the stock sending unit is for the gauge in the dash. So first I decided to prime the motor again and see if the needle moves. I pulled the plugs/wires, unplugged the coil pack and removed the fuel pump fuze. I cranked it and no movement. It seemed to stay at just a hair above 0psi which I guess is something...right?? So I decide to move the sending unit to the front where the dummy light sensor would be. I removed it from the rear and to my surprise just a very small drop of oil came out? So I plugged it back up with a bolt and unplugged the front port. Again no oil came out. So I went to bolt on the sending unit and I managed to do this:

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Awesome. So new OFH will be ordered. But I'm wondering why little to no oil came out of the ports when I unplugged them??? The guy I called today suggested I could get a sandwhich plate between the filter and OFH which may yield better results, but I don't think it will fit between my down pipe.

I'm definitely ordering a new OFH...but comments/suggestions are welcome.

 

[black_gst]

are you sure you primed it fully. also the OFH is above the oil level so no too much oil should have came out

 

[mikelv]

Well it looks like your sending unit already took a dump on you. I had a ProSport for about 2 seconds.

Go get yourself a new sending unit, and unless you get a SS line like I said previously you'll be buying a new one in about a month if you're lucky. They won't accept a return on the sending unit either because of that simple fact.

Edit----So I just noticed the end of your comment I missed. Are you saying with the motor running (or not for that matter) the brass fitting you installed on the OFH has no oil coming through it? That thing should be spitting oil everywhere.

Did you put a bran new oil pump on this car prior to the swap?

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

When I called the company yesterday they seemed to be willing to do a return for the sending unit since I called and it hasn't worked yet. So we'll see what happens...

But I forgot to mention, after I broke the OFH, I primed the car again by cranking it over with the starter. Nothing came out the front, but I removed the bolt plugging up the rear port and oil started pouring out. Made me feel a lot better!

 

[mikelv]

One thing you should try to do is see if the oil pump is functioning properly.

I noticed you cranked the engine a few times to prime it, which in fact is not the best way to prime an engine, but I don't think you have any problems here. Really what you should do is with the timing belt removed, chuck up a 14mm socket in a drill and manually (slowly) turn the oil pump gear counter clockwise and visually inspect in the oil filler cap that oil is getting into the head.

For your case of having oil pressure in question, I would attempt this process again if you are comfortable with the timing job. Either that or you could have someone crank the car for a few seconds and give the filler cap a peek to see if you got oil getting up there. If you don't see anything getting into the head, then you know you've got pump problems.

 

[mikelv]

When I called the company yesterday they seemed to be willing to do a return for the sending unit since I called and it hasn't worked yet. So we'll see what happens...

But I forgot to mention, after I broke the OFH, I primed the car again by cranking it over with the starter. Nothing came out the front, but I removed the bolt plugging up the rear port and oil started pouring out. Made me feel a lot better!

Well that's good to know, but still check to make sure the oil pump is okay. After that I would most def get myself a forward facing bracket OFH. By far the best out there. Here is the link from FFWD. Darren is a real good dude, he'll take care of ya.


FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

 

[black_gst]

there is another way to prime the oil pump. you get a fluid pump and you pump oil into the OFH through that oil port where you have the bolt in the picture above^^^. just go buy a fluid pump or a vacuum pump you can use the brakebooster fitting from your intake mani and it will screw into that port on your ofh. i just did this yesterday and BAM!!! oil pressure. i just finished my 6bolt swap too. i tried to start it yesterday but got no spark .

but this way works for sure!

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Well I got the new OFH back on and hooked up today. Put everything else back together. Now this OFH came with the dummy light sensor installed so I hooked up that wire. But the port where the OEM sending unit for the gauge cluster would go was just not there on this one?? Weird. There are three other ports that are plugged, but the holes are like twice as big as the one where the sending unit goes so I couldn't hook anything up to check oil pressure.

So I unplugged the fuel and spark and spun the motor a few times to get some oil flow again. The dummy light didn't go on at all, which I'm not sure is good or bad. I did a quick check under the car and nothing looked to be leaking yet. So whether it was/is a good idea or not I hooked up DSMLink and fired her up again. She kicked over nicely. I opened the oil cap on the valve cover and looked in there and the cams/rockers/lifters seemed to be bone dry and couldn't seem to see any oil coming up. However I felt like puffs of air coming out of the cap, so again don't know if thats good or not. So I turned the car off. I mean it only was running for maybe 30-40 seconds, so I'm not sure if that was long enough to build up to the head yet, but I don't want to take chances.

So my next idea is to follow one of the tech articles about priming a motor that already has the timing stuff on. Its something like take the brake booster vac fitting from the IM and hook it up to the OFH and use a hand pump until it gets hard to do, then crank the motor or something....I have to read it.

But now I'm realizing I can't do that because I don't have a port to plug in the vac fitting or an oil press sending unit. Can I get some sort of adapter? Or should I just lube up the ol asshole and buy a brand new OFH?

 

[mikelv]

I'm having a hard time following you, let me see if I get this straight.

You're scared as hell the motor isn't getting oil and you've just put a new oil filter housing on there?

This filter housing you put on doesn't have a place for the stock pressure sending unit, and the aftermarket one you got was junk?

If the aftermarket one we talked about earlier wasn't working at all, then it was totally shot. Ususally when they take a shit on you they read a little bit, like 10 psi or 20 psi, just enough to scare the hell out of you and make you think the motor has no oil in it.

Well, I would tell you once again, if you're going to run a gauge you need the SS braided line. If the oil filter housing is bran new, you don't have a problem with it.

The dummy light will tell you there's no oil it there, if it's hooked up and not on, then that would tell you that you have oil. Only, you don't know because you have no gauge.

Where did you get the oil filter housing? What kind?

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Sorry if I've been a bit confusing on this, but yes mikelv, you're right.

I haven't tested the sending unit on the aftermarket gauge yet to see if in fact it doesn't work. I didn't have anyone else home yesterday to help me test, but I was going to depress the pinhole in the sending unit with the power on to see if the needle moves. That should tell me if the sending unit is in order. Personally, I think the reason it wasn't reading was because of the location of it in the old oil filter housing. You see I found out that the port I was using in the back of the housing apparently did not see much oil pressure. Other ports on the front had much better oil pressure. I found this out by cranking over the motor a few times and removing the plug from each port and seeing how much oil comes out. The rear port where I originally had the sending unit barely dribbled, where the front ports pretty much poured out.

I'm not sure what year this oil filter housing is from, but it is used and for a 6 bolt. There are a total of 4 ports on this one. One in the front is the standard size and has the dummy light sensor installed. The other two ports in the front are plugged, but the hole sizes are about 2x as big as the standard size where the OEM stuff plugs in. There is also one facing down towards the back that is the same size. Those last three are obviously plugged. I will post up some pictures today when I get home from work and try to find out what year/make/model it came from.

And yes it seems as though the bottom half of the motor is getting oil as I've seen it pour out the oil filter housing. My concern is that the cylinder head is getting lubrication. I just got the head rebuilt and cleaned, so I'd like to not break it if possible.

If anything, for now I'd like to pop the valve cover off and just see if I can crank the motor and get any oil in the cylinder head. Does it take time while the motor is idling for oil to get up to the cylinder head? If that's the case, maybe I can put some more assembly lube on the valvetrain and pour some oil over it to get it started?

 

[16g-2ndgen]

If your engine is primed there should be oil already in the head galleries and ready to lube the valvetrain. That is one of the whole reasons of priming it. If your engine was running for 30-40 seconds and you didnt see any oil in the cylinder head you have some oil pressure problems. Pull your valve cover and turn it over and see if any oil comes out.

Do you have lots of lifter tick?