6 bolt swap

[TSiWarrior]

Im assuming this is super repetative thread, but im looking for a write up, or some good solid tutorial/directions

1992 6/4 TSI AWD Turbo Automatic
1995 TSI AWD Manual

Im swaping the engines, dont even know where to start or what I gotta do haha.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Hopefully this link will help you out:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/article_1g2g.htm

 

[TSiWarrior]

Alright... Seince im pulling motor from a running 1g car...

Can i use my CAS? (1992 TSI AWD)

Stuff that I belive I have to do.......

Rewire my? CAS to the 2g ecu

Trim 2g motor mount

put the 2g starter bracket on

2G Alternator

2G Power Steering Pump

Swap 2G ISC with 1G Throttle body 1G Coil pack and bracket
^^^ Im a bit lost on that one....

2G fuel rail to accommodate 2G Fuel Pressure Regulator

Reuse 2G sensor including oil, water temp, etc. <--- Will they plug in?

2G MAP sensor either in Intake Mani or T-d off of Brake booster Vac line <--- Self explanitory... although, any suggestions?

Now it's got a 2g AWD 5speed transmission, my 92 tsi is Automatic
Can I use the 2g cams?
Is there a inexpensive way/easy way to use the 2g transmission on my 6 bolt motor?

Is there anything i've left out so far that would need to be done? Sorry for so many questions but I would like to know what i've gotta do before I go outside in the cold garage and run into suprises. With my current understanding, it's basicly moving the engine from one car to the other with the modifications said above.

Thanks!

 

[98GSX209]

if your pulling a running motor from the 1g, and you want to put it in your tsi. have you thought about just switching the head from your motor to the 1g block that might save you some time from haveing to switch everything over. than the only thing you would replace which you should do anyways

1. head gasket - replace with a four layer head gasket and arp head bolts
2. intake manifold gasket
3. exhaust manifold - replace with the four layer gasket
4. water pump w/ gasket and thermostat
5. timing belt

thats probly about it besides the basics that you should replace when installing another motor. as for the cams you might be able to use them but you would have to switch out the lifters if i'm not mistaken. i think the cams might be the same pitch you should mic them if you got one. if you don't know where to get parts or you have questions regaurding your swap, if i were you i would go to the ROAD /// RACE site and get parts they even have a number to call and the guys there are off the hook.

 

[treebonker]

since you have access to a longblock

FAQ from http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSM1gina2g/messages
sign up and start searching You'll mostly find everything you want to know, almost everything has been covered.
----------------------
================================================================================
What do I need to put a 1G/JDM 6-bolt short block into my Manual Trans Turbo 2G?
================================================================================

For a Short Block replacement, keeping all else 2G and stock;

You will need a COMPLETE 6 Bolt short block with pan, from flywheel to the
timing belt cover. The 1G timing belt cover will need to be modified to
accommodate the 2G motor mount. The flywheel type will need to matched your
manual trans type, AWD or FWD.

All DSM clutch are the same, AWD FWD 7Bolt and 6Bolt.

One bolt on the front of the transmission will not have a place to thread into
the 6 bolt block, and is usually backed up with a nut.

2G Starter/transmission alignment plate.
2G motor mount (modified to fit 1G water pump)
2G Alt
2G AC compressor mounting bracket and compressor
2G water pump pulleys
2G PS pump bracket mount and 2G PS bracket

1G or 2G crank pulley
1G or 2G Dip stick tube and stick.

Use 2G sensors to go with your 2G ECU;
TPS, Knock, Water Temp for ECU, Water Temp Gauge, Oil Pressure switch for the
idiot light, Oil pressure sender for the gauge, and O2 sensors.

The oil filter assembly should match the type of cooler you are going to use.
91'-92.5' were 6-bolt and water/oil cooled.

The water pipe and water neck will be 2G to match the 2G head, so the plumbing
will be all set to feed a Water/Oil type oil cooler. Save the 2G oil supply
lines for the cooler, and your turbo setup.

The 2G head will need to have the head stud holes made bigger to accommodate the
6-Bolt head studs.

The 2G crank signal will have to be replaced with a simulated Crank signal from
a 1G CAS. (See the RRE 1G CAS info pages)
Http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

You will need to build/buy a wiring harness for it.

Be prepared to buy DSMLink and 95-E-Prom ECU if your Stock ECU is unhappy with
the simulated Crank signal. Its the only viable solution to eliminating false
Random Misfire detection if the problem occurs.

================================================================================
What if I also have a 1G head?
================================================================================

Use a;
1G intake manifold.
1G water neck with the radiator cap.
1G thermostat
late 1G coil pack

Make a custom TB elbow for your late 1G or 2G TB. The EGR system can be disabled
or you can plumb a 2G map sensor and appropriate vacuum lines to a 2G EGR valve.

See EGRhose.gif in the files section -

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm1gina2g/vwp?.dir=/EGR&.dnm=EGRhose.gif

Make a bracket to mount the 2G injector resistor pack to the 1G intake manifold.

The shifter counter weight on the transmission is typically cut off to make room
for the lower radiator hose with a 1G water pipe.

Water pipe, and oil filter assembly selection will depend what oil cooler you
decide to use.

1G or 2G water/oil cooler uses a 91'-92.5' 1G water pipe with water fittings
and a 91'-92.5' oil filter housing.

1G/after market air/oil coolers uses a 90' 1G water pipe without water fittings
and a 90' 1G oil filter housing with an air/oil cooler in three possible
flavors:

1. Aftermarket air/oil cooler with custom hoses and custom mounting
2. 90' 1G factory oil cooler with factory hoses and custom mounting
3. 97+ automatic transmission fluid cooler with factory hoses, a 97+ front
bumper with ducting and factory mounting hardware.

================================================================================
How do I get rid of the Random Misfire studder and check engine light?
================================================================================

RM (Random Misfire)The ECU is flagging a misfire condition because the crank
sensor which originally drove the hyper accurate signal for the 2G ECU has now
been replaced and simulated by the not so accurate 1G CAS. The only remedies
for this symptom once you have it is:

1. Start over again and do it the original RRE way by modding the oil pump case
and keep the crank signal. RRE does not do it this way anymore, so why would
you?

2. Wire in a potentiometer on the barometric sensor wire going to the
ECU,thereby fooling the ECU into thinking you are at very high elevation (low
barometric pressure) so it doesn't check for RM. This sounds simple, but if you
don't tune the engine to compensate for the additional timing, you will end up
turning your piston's to goo which also kills your turbo. (Not a recommended
fix)

3. Cutting the TPS sensor wire. This actually appears to work for some
people,but since TPS is useful for data logging and tuning, its not a good long
term fix. This may also effect engine performance during times when the ECU uses
rapid changes in throttle position.

4. Buying DSMLink and clicking a tiny little checkbox which basically disables
the ECU logic that checks for RM.

================================================================================
Is there a step by step set of instructions on how to do the swap?
================================================================================

You are looking at them.

Step by step instructions have their value in this world for some things, but I
don't think this is one if them. There are too many variable. JDM motors, for
example, have lots of different water necks and intake manifolds depending on
what car they came out of. Some people want to use 2G heads and water necks,
some people have Big FAT turbo's with external WG etc etc etc..

If you are smart enough to do the swap, you don't need my step by step
instructions. Please see a reputable speed shop (preferably one that actually
races cars and stands behind their work) if you want this kind of work done
right.

Justin
-------------------------
Goodluck

-treebonker

 

[TSiWarrior]

Thanks guys!

If there's any more stuff that should be covered that's great!

So i wont need kiggly's transmission mount thing? (note: the 6bolt is auto, so is there any other modifications im going to need to do to the motor/tranny side besides the bushing to accomidate the 2nd gen 5speed)
That would be pretty awesome if I didnt have to go buy much of anything. I know it sounds cheap but im gunna have less than $200 to buy stuff for the swap, and im hopeing if I dont destroy stuff in the process of swapping them I should be good. Obviously im gunna need the regular fluids and clutch fluid, might as well replace the clutch while im at it.

Anything else you guys think?

Can i use the automatic transmission cooler on my 5speed, or maybe turn it into an oil cooler?

 

[treebonker]

So i wont need kiggly's transmission mount thing?

I dont even know what that is.
But there is nothing you need to do to the mounts except one. Use all your 2g motor/trans mount/brackets. Modify the 2g driver side motor mount so it will clear the 1G water pump.
>>>attached pic

(note: the 6bolt is auto, so is there any other modifications im going to need to do to the motor/tranny side besides the bushing to accomidate the 2nd gen 5speed)

Nothing else being an auto.

Can i use the automatic transmission cooler on my 5speed, or maybe turn it into an oil cooler?

It will not flow enough, I have heard.

Have fun
-treebonker

 

[TSiWarrior]

Nice, thanks man!

This is more help than I thought I was going to get. Im pretty confident I can pull this off pretty easily now.

 

[TSiWarrior]

How badly will the automatic cams mess with my manual car?

I have a set of 2g manual cams, Should I install thoes?

 

[TSiWarrior]

Seince tuners went down in the middle of this product, and problems finding an inexpensive flywheel, the do-it-all day is now friday. Wish me luck!

Few more questions.

Do i need to take the T-belt off during any of this?

Would the 2g manual cams be a HP increase over my automatic cams?

Anything else special I need to do?

It is a complete running 6 bolt.

 

[TSiWarrior]

Never done a t-belt and im not looking forward to the whole, if you dont get it right ## motor goes boom.

 

[TSiWarrior]

Figured I'd give you guys an update

Tranny is on, although I forgot one of the washers that go on the flywheel, will that cause a probem? I've got EVERYTHING bolted up so I really hope not.

Motor mount done

Timing belt back on

Sensors changed

Turbo and everything on

Fuel rail ready to go on

Just need to drop her in I suppose, and hope everything works!

 

[1fast97gsx]

although I forgot one of the washers that go on the flywheel

Huh??

 

[TSiWarrior]

Eh its a circular washer slightly concave. Few mm thick, has 6 bolt holes. I had 1 laying by the trans and found another a bit later. All of the bolts got tight and tranny is on so you think it will be a problem?

 

[TSiWarrior]

Can I drill a hole in my EGR blockoff plate to accomidate MAP sensor? I have a 1g head egr blocked off, im looking for the easiest way to get that map sensor workin right.

 

[TSiWarrior]

shit, I used one of thoes washers anyway. It's good for it! shh....

Yeah I took that fat bushing out, that thing was a bia to get out.

If it isnt good for it we'll know when my flywheel explodes my engine

 

[Enraged78]

Can I drill a hole in my EGR blockoff plate to accomidate MAP sensor? I have a 1g head egr blocked off, im looking for the easiest way to get that map sensor workin right.

I had a 1G intake manifold with a blockoff and the 2G MAP sensor. It was utterly useless. I got DSMLink, unchecked EGR CEL's, and threw the MAP sensor in the trash. There are no drivability issues running like this, except that you lose about 2 MPG without the EGR. I wasn't able to figure out a way to get the 1G EGR working properly with the 2G ECU. The 2G ecu is expecting the EGR to function more often than the 1G EGR was designed for. I believe it specifically is looking for more exhaust gas recirculation during idle, but I'm not 100% on that. Anyway, the 1G EGR does not do what the ECU is looking for and the ECU checks this via the MAP, causing you to throw a CEL. Get DSMLink, and this all goes away.

Matt.

 

[TSiWarrior]

well where's the best place to put that map sensor then?

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm1gina2g/vwp?.dir=/EGR&.dnm=EGRhose.gif

Eh, what do you mean? I dont see any big enough hoses to use. Plus my EGR is blocked off.

Or if i have the EGR blocked off do I even need the map sensor?

Looking at the 2g coil pack, the plug's pointing foward, pack laying flat, what's the fireing order?

 

[Enraged78]

Or if i have the EGR blocked off do I even need the map sensor?

Looking at the 2g coil pack, the plug's pointing foward, pack laying flat, what's the fireing order?

That's the thing. With a blocked 1G EGR, you are going to throw a code, it's just a matter of time. The MAP sensor exsists solely to check the function of EGR. Therefore, it's only going to throw a code. If you get DSMLink, you can run the Blocked 1G EGR, and completely remove the MAP sensor wit no ill effects except for the fact that you no longer have EGR. The plus side is keeping your manifold and throttle body cleaner. The down side is that you will lose about 2 MPG.

The firing order of the coil pack has not changed if you're using a 2G head with 2G sensors. It gets a little confusing if you're using a 1G intake manifold on a 2G head, however. I tried both a 1G and 2G coil pack on my car, and I had random misfires with the 1G coil. I was told that this never happens, and it was very possible that I just had a bad coil. What I did to alleviate this was take the 2G coil pack, cut the 1G coil pack bracket so that the 2G mounted on it, and bolted it onto the 1G intake manifold using two of the bolts on the right hand side. This makes the coil pack eaiser to remove if you need to, and all of my random misfires completely went away.

If you use your 1G head, however, it gets a little more complicated. You will need to rewire your CAS for the 2G ECU, swap your 1&4 plugs with 2&3, and either use the Magnus method to invert the CAS signal, or get DSMLink. Whether you use a 1G or 2G coil pack is up to you, but I would mod the 2G coil for the 1G intake manifold.

If you notice, I'm mentioning DSMLink a lot. This tool makes this much easier, and the tuning capabilities alone make it well worth the cost. Check to see if you have a socketed ECU. If you do, DSMLink is a no-brainer.

Matt.

P.S. - If you can't figure out your coil's firing order because you forgot it, don't worry. There's only two ways you can set it up. 1&4 are on one coil 2&3 are on the other. If the car doesn't start, swap the coils. Also, the car WILL run with an inverted CAS signal, but it will run wierd. You will get some pulled timing at moderate load, startups will take longer, and the car will just "feel" funny when you drive it. Do youself a favor and make sure the CAS signal is correct, however you do it.

 

[TSiWarrior]

Car's done and running! few weird things tho

It electronicly died after a hard accell, then started again after I stopped... that was werid
Starter ground cable if connected to battery will make the starter only click (wont turn over... what the?)
It starts pretty hard, takes a while
Idle's at 2k even though I got the ajuster all the way in.
And the clutch picks up just off the floor, do 2g's have an ajuster?

Please help! I wanna drive it!

 

[daveyfx]

Car's done and running! few weird things tho
And the clutch picks up just off the floor, do 2g's have an ajuster?

Yeah, you can adjust the preload on the master cylinder easily. Follow the rod behind the clutch pedal and break loose the 12mm nut *on* the rod and seated against the bracket. Once you've done this, just turn the rod inside the bracket until you reach desired preload.

Make sure your hydraulic system has no leaks or air pockets of course.

 

[TSiWarrior]

I stopped at a buddie's house and we knocked off some of the problems. We got the timing basicly perfect along with a few other things. Only last thing is that it still idles at 2 grand and we coudlnt figre out why. Any ideas?