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My 6 bolt swap issues

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I hadn't had a chance to post, but I removed the timing belt and spun the oil pump for over a minute several times with an electric impact gun. Not only did NO oil come up to the head, but I also rounded off the nut on the oil pump. So it looks like I'll be removing the front case and rebuilding the oil pump with new gears. :(
 
donniekak said:
You do know that the bolt hole on the exhaust side on the end that the water housing is on is the oil feed for the head.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that I needed to port this out more when putting a 7 bolt head on my 6 bolt block? I know other people that have done this combo without such porting. But I'm obviously open to suggestions.
 
I did some searching and I have not seen any mention of modifying oil passages in the 7 bolt head to accomodate a 6 bolt block. Also, I noted that the oil drain passage from the head seems to work fine as I've poured in oil and it reaches the pan. This is leading me to believe its more of a problem with the oil pump. I'm just going to go ahead and replace it and see what happens. Worst case, it will eliminate that possibility and running a used oil pump on a brand new motor is a dumb idea to begin with. I apparently rode the short bus to school...
 
No, the oil feed to the head is the bolt hole for the hole on the exhaust side closest to the passenger side. The oil flows around the stud and into the passage. If the holes are only reamed enough for the studs to barely fit it could be blocked. If you look down the hole you can see the oil port.
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I understand what you're saying, but if he's not getting oil through the galleys up inside the head, it's enough to be worried, although it'd be nice if he saw oil coming out of the feed as you said.
 
blcknspo0ln said:
I understand what you're saying, but if he's not getting oil through the galleys up inside the head, it's enough to be worried, although it'd be nice if he saw oil coming out of the feed as you said.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean. The oil galleys in the head get their oil from that bolt hole. There is a hole in the block that is the oil feed for the head. It flows through the trough in the head, around the bolt, and into the feed port in the bolt hole. From there if feeds the entire head. If the hole was reamed only enough to barely fit the stud, oil may not flow around it into the feed port.
 
That totally makes sense. But I have two arguments against your theory:

1) Oil drains from the head to the pan in the same manner, around a bolt hole, correct? All holes are the same diameter, so it wouldn't make sense for one to flow oil and not the other.
2) My turbo is fed oil from the cylinder head. When I removed the oil return tube from the pan yesterday it flowed oil which means oil somehow got to the head, right?

I'm not trying to say that you are incorrect, just providing information to help narrow down this issue.
 
I don't think you understand what i'm saying. Only that 1 bolt hole has oil flowing through it around the bolt, and it is the feed for the whole head, all of the oil in the head flows around that 1 bolt and into the oil galley. If the studs barely fit in the holes, then there isn't enough room for the proper amount of oil to get in the head. That has nothing to do with how oil drains out of the head. The oil doesn't drain through the bolt holes, there are drains cast into the head.
 
Ahhh, I see what you mean. I misunderstood how the oil drains from the head to the oil pan. That could be a definite possibility. In the meantime I may as well replace the oil pump with a brand new one since a used one on a new motor was a bad idea to begin with...

So I ordered a brand new OEM front case, oil drive and driven gear (straight cut), front case gasket, and oil filter housing gasket for a whopping $300 :(

I got everything off the front case today except the bolt holding on the crank sprocket and trigger plate. I was nervous about spinning the crank and bending some valves, so I wanted to get some advice from you guys on how to remove (and re-install) that bolt without turning the crank and bending my new valves. New parts should arrive on Friday.
 
Do you have an impact? I take it off with the air gun, and when i put it back on i don't tighten it fully until the t-belt is on. In other words i don't put strong torque on it unless the timing is already set. That way if it turns, nothing is messed up.
 
donniekak said:
Do you have an impact? I take it off with the air gun, and when i put it back on i don't tighten it fully until the t-belt is on. In other words i don't put strong torque on it unless the timing is already set. That way if it turns, nothing is messed up.
Click to expand...

Yea, I have an impact gun. I just wasn't sure how good of an idea it would be. The bolt was torqued down to like 85 ft/lb when I installed it the first time.
 
I kind of went off track for this thread into an attempted "how-to" thread on rebuilding the front case. Link. I decided to keep posting back here since this is no longer oil pump related...

Of course things just keep getting worse. Jason and I removed the head today. The oil port on the head seemed like it had plenty of room to feed oil through. So we decided to spin the pump without a head. Surely oil will come FLYING out, right???? WRONG! Spun the pump in BOTH directions (just to be sure) for a good 2 minutes and nothing. One time some oil barely dribbled out of the, now open, oil return line port on the oil pan. We heard gurgling after spinning, but saw no oil. It comes out of the OFH, but not the block. So we removed the OFH, cleaned up the relieve valve a bit, and stuck it back on. Same thing. I guess there is some blockage somewhere in the block.

Anyone interested in a part out??


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Well one good thing - now you know you did the right thing taking the head back off.

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Flexible Borescope, Bore scope, fiberscope [8mm-1350mm (0.32"-54")], 2 way articulation

Anyway, I guess somehow you have to get familiar with the oil passageway between the OFH and that hole on the top of the block. I wonder if it is just a couple of intersecting straight shot passageways, or if it is more complicated then that.
 
I emailed the guy I bought the short block from. 6 months later he tells me the holes for the oil squirters are not plugged. I apparently never looked for this.....
 
donniekak said:
At least you know the problem. I bet next time you check things out a lot better. Something like this happens to all of us in the beginning.
Click to expand...

absolutely. but now that i've done it all from the ground up I know what to look for. I pretty much ran into the major of issues with doing a 6 bolt swap.
 
I just wanted to post an update. I put the oil squirters in and put everythign else back together. Now I have oil pressure!! Thanks for the help guys.

This thread can be closed now.
 
Since this thread still exists, let me follow up with where I am now so I can get some more suggestions/ideas from you guys...

So as I mentioned I have oil pressure and the motor starts. Unfortunately I cannot get it to idle. I setup my fuel offsets in DSMLink for PTE 880's which (I think) was like -45% and 420 deadtime. Anyway, I set the idle to 850 for now to get it warmed up. The car starts up just fine, but once RPMS go down to about 1100RPM it idle surges. Vacuum reads between -16 and -11 depending on where the RPMs are. I checked all my vac lines for leaks, but I sealed them all up and even replaced some just in case. I have stock cams btw.

My first step tomorrow (or next opportunity) is to set base timing with my 1g CAS. But any other suggestions?
 
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