2G Its 2023... rear diff options ?

[syndr0me]

Hey all,

It's summer 2023, thus another season of struggles when it comes to parts.

Today's topic, rear diffs for a 2g.What are our options nowadays?

I currently have an LSD pumpkin and axles set, and a non-lsd pumpkin and axles set.

I'm not particularly stoked about installing my LSD unit even though it's an *increase* in performance but the options seem to be running quite thin.

Kaaz and cusco are no longer produced.

And any evo8 diff will also require evo8 cups for the axles as the stock 2g non-lsd axles are too short.

Thay being said, evo8 diffs aren't easy to find, but I'm guessing the general idea here is that you can purchase an aftermarket evo8 and slap that in a 2g non-lsd pumpkin... granted u got the rear cups for it. Can anybody confirm?

OS SuperLock LSD for Mitsubishi CP9A Lancer Evo 4-9

Description The OS Giken Super Lock LSD uses our patented pressure ring design that allows for smooth, progressive locking. This design is a spline-through-side-gear design that allows for fitment of more friction plates (up to 2x as many as competitors versions). All components are chemically...

osgikenusa.com

3gkt isn't a straight built on either, if memory serves... and are rare as well.

And while the Ford 8.8 (?) is a sexy option with the new rear subframe from boostin(?), it's not wallet friendly by a long shot.


Evo8 being the MR166619 (evo2 to evoX)


Does that sum up 2g rear diffs in 2023? I spent hours the past few days searching this topic, and that's my summary.

Any inputs appreciated. Thanks

 

[twicks69]

Thats the gist of it. Now what are you actually using your car for, and what power levels are you at?

 

[syndr0me]

Thats the gist of it. Now what are you actually using your car for, and what power levels are you at?

Thanks twicks69.

My goals are unorthodox. I wish to create a sort of tribute, a 98 TSI AWD Final Edition if you will. A properly spec'd DSM, the way the dealer should have let us build these cars in the final years.

I think an evo rear end type diff would do it justice.

I'd love to make a 9sec car. A dream of mine ever since seeing Brent Rau's youtube video from 14 years ago. Ye, you know the one. However I cant stomach tearing into this bone stock , near perfect, 140k km magenta grey pearl 98 tsi awd. Black dash, leather interior, sunroof.

I'd prefer to conserve the heritage of this automobile with tasteful mods without degrading its value.

More to the point, I'd rather keep it stock looking. 400ish hp with a mix of evo3/8 parts that will do it justice.

A mgp 1998 TSi AWD Final Edition

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Adam]

I know this has been debated a lot but 2GB non lsd axles can work with the Evo plate diff. TRE told me that 2ga have the shorter axles and 2gb are long enough. I haven't personally verified differences between 2ga and 2gb but I can tell you that the Evo 3 rear cups I have are the same as the rear cups in my 98 tsi non lsd. So again no guarantees but there's options. Evo axles also aren't that hard to source

 

[syndr0me]

I know this has been debated a lot but 2GB non lsd axles can work with the Evo plate diff. TRE told me that 2ga have the shorter axles and 2gb are long enough. I haven't personally verified differences between 2ga and 2gb but I can tell you that the Evo 3 rear cups I have are the same as the rear cups in my 98 tsi non lsd. So again no guarantees but there's options. Evo axles also aren't that hard to source

THANK YOU for clearing that up. I was tearing my hair up trying to decipher everyone's claims with all the forums posts throughout the decade. So 2GB rear non lsd axles COULD work? An OS Super Lock would be a direct drop in for a 2g non lsd WITH 2gb non-lsd axless??? Anyone can confirm??

 

[twicks69]

Personally for a 400whp car you don't need anything more than a stock viscous rear diff, unless maybe if you are doing road racing or AutoX.

OS Giken takes a while to get from Japan, and that is they are interested in making one for you. What I did for the last customer that needed one and didn't want to wait 4 months to get a diff, we went with a Cusco LSD rear differential, and they made it to order and shipped it out in less than 3 weeks. I can still get these.

If you go the route of the stock Evo clutch type LSD diff, I would just flip the plates, and then use a TRE Ninja billet side cover on it with longer fastening machine screws to attach the cover to the diff. This would utilize 1x MD710663 bearing on the cover, and 1x MN168441 bearing on the housing. Debur the housing grooves where the clutch plates rest as they like to get beaten up over time and galled. A bit of cleanup with a die grinder and sanding drum will make everything smooth to move around.

The Cusco and OS Giken work with the non-LSD inner cups, or with the Evo inner cups, or DSS Stage 5 axles with Evo inner cups. As for the 2g DSM rear axles, I have never seen a difference between 2ga and 2gb inner non-LSD axle cups. They are the same part number.

Cusco RS Series 1.5-Way LSD Rear Differential for DSM, GVR4, Evo 1-9 Non-AYC

www.tmzperformance.com

You would use 2x MN168441 bearings to do the install then. If you need the shim kit for adjusting backlash, it is MB241903.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Personally for a 400whp car you don't need anything more than a stock viscous rear diff, unless maybe if you are doing road racing or AutoX.

OS Giken takes a while to get from Japan, and that is they are interested in making one for you. What I did for the last customer that needed one and didn't want to wait 4 months to get a diff, we went with a Cusco LSD rear differential, and they made it to order and shipped it out in less than 3 weeks. I can still get these.

If you go the route of the stock Evo clutch type LSD diff, I would just flip the plates, and then use a TRE Ninja billet side cover on it with longer fastening machine screws to attach the cover to the diff. This would utilize 1x MD710663 bearing on the cover, and 1x MN168441 bearing on the housing. Debur the housing grooves where the clutch plates rest as they like to get beaten up over time and galled. A bit of cleanup with a die grinder and sanding drum will make everything smooth to move around.

The Cusco and OS Giken work with the non-LSD inner cups, or with the Evo inner cups, or DSS Stage 5 axles with Evo inner cups. As for the 2g DSM rear axles, I have never seen a difference between 2ga and 2gb inner non-LSD axle cups. They are the same part number.

Cusco RS Series 1.5-Way LSD Rear Differential for DSM, GVR4, Evo 1-9 Non-AYC

www.tmzperformance.com

You would use 2x MN168441 bearings to do the install then. If you need the shim kit for adjusting backlash, it is MB241903.

I mean this genuinely, glad you're still with us. Your knowledge is worth more than gold, man.

 

[syndr0me]

---

Personally for a 400whp car you don't need anything more than a stock viscous rear diff, unless maybe if you are doing road racing or AutoX.

OS Giken takes a while to get from Japan, and that is they are interested in making one for you. What I did for the last customer that needed one and didn't want to wait 4 months to get a diff, we went with a Cusco LSD rear differential, and they made it to order and shipped it out in less than 3 weeks. I can still get these.

If you go the route of the stock Evo clutch type LSD diff, I would just flip the plates, and then use a TRE Ninja billet side cover on it with longer fastening machine screws to attach the cover to the diff. This would utilize 1x MD710663 bearing on the cover, and 1x MN168441 bearing on the housing. Debur the housing grooves where the clutch plates rest as they like to get beaten up over time and galled. A bit of cleanup with a die grinder and sanding drum will make everything smooth to move around.

The Cusco and OS Giken work with the non-LSD inner cups, or with the Evo inner cups, or DSS Stage 5 axles with Evo inner cups. As for the 2g DSM rear axles, I have never seen a difference between 2ga and 2gb inner non-LSD axle cups. They are the same part number.

Cusco RS Series 1.5-Way LSD Rear Differential for DSM, GVR4, Evo 1-9 Non-AYC

www.tmzperformance.com

You would use 2x MN168441 bearings to do the install then. If you need the shim kit for adjusting backlash, it is MB241903.

Like CrackedDSM mentionned, you knowledge is very much appreciated.

Could you possibly elaborate what's the 2nd poster in this thread is referencing?
He shows a picture of one snub being shorter than the other. Claims it to be evo3 vs 2g non-lsd cups.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo-rear-lsd-in-a-1g-2g-housing.467544/

I don't want to invalidate your claims but merely be on the safe side of things.

As for the TRE Ninja billet side cover you mention.. I cant find anything on that

As for the Cusco rear diff, I thought they were no longer produced so thanks a ton! It was my initial choice

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[twicks69]

You can message Jon @ TRE directly about the ninja side cover, or I can get it myself. The part is considerably thicker and stronger than the stock Evo clutch type side cover that is prone to elongating the bearing bore causing failure. He still makes them, and I have one received here currently for another customer that needed one. They also are clearanced to fit the Frontline Fabrication billet rear diff cover without modification. The cover uses longer machine screws to attach the diff housing to the cover. The factory screws are M5 x 10mm, and if I recall, I used 18mm or 20mm long ones during assembly.

As for Evo cups vs 2G DSM non-LSD cups, yes there is a difference in length of the splined portion. I have personally used Evo inner cups for my DSS axles with the Evo clutch type diff, as well as 2G non-LSD inner cups, and I had issues using the 2G non-LSD cups in my application with them not being long enough and not locking in. I have none here anymore to measure against to give you concrete measurements.

With the Cusco, I have not had issues using either axle cup from experience. I have sold, and installed KAAZ, Cusco and OS Giken rear diffs in the past, but I am unable to give you measurements as again, I no longer have these components here to measure against with an Evo axle up and a 2G axle cup.

 

[syndr0me]

You can message Jon @ TRE directly about the ninja side cover, or I can get it myself. The part is considerably thicker and stronger than the stock Evo clutch type side cover that is prone to elongating the bearing bore causing failure. He still makes them, and I have one received here currently for another customer that needed one. They also are clearanced to fit the Frontline Fabrication billet rear diff cover without modification. The cover uses longer machine screws to attach the diff housing to the cover. The factory screws are M5 x 10mm, and if I recall, I used 18mm or 20mm long ones during assembly.

As for Evo cups vs 2G DSM non-LSD cups, yes there is a difference in length of the splined portion. I have personally used Evo inner cups for my DSS axles with the Evo clutch type diff, as well as 2G non-LSD inner cups, and I had issues using the 2G non-LSD cups in my application with them not being long enough and not locking in. I have none here anymore to measure against to give you concrete measurements.

With the Cusco, I have not had issues using either axle cup from experience. I have sold, and installed KAAZ, Cusco and OS Giken rear diffs in the past, but I am unable to give you measurements as again, I no longer have these components here to measure against with an Evo axle up and a 2G axle cup.

This definitely clears up the confusion regarding the axle cups.

Simple recap for those looking for the same information.

When rebuilding a 2g non-lsd rear diff with an evo LSD, 2g non-lsd cups won't work

However, when opting for aftermarket evo LSDs ( Gikens, kaaz, Cusco), the 2g non-lsd cups WILL work.

Summarized.

Thanks a ton twicks ! I'll be DMing you for some services.

 

[syndr0me]

But twicks just said he hasn't had issues with the cusco.

I'm so lost. I give up. Lol

 

[NWHTanK]

Also dss does sell evo cups with one of thier staged axle setups the down side is roughly 2k for the axles if I rember.

 

[twicks69]

I messaged my last Cusco diff customer, and he responded that he is using DSS stage 5 axles with evo inner axle cups.

The big thing is that the axle circlip fully pushes past the pinion gears and locks into place.

Personally I would recommend evo inner axle cups or DSS axles made with the Evo style 300m stub inner cups.

 

[syndr0me]

I messaged my last Cusco diff customer, and he responded that he is using DSS stage 5 axles with evo inner axle cups.

The big thing is that the axle circlip fully pushes past the pinion gears and locks into place.

Personally I would recommend evo inner axle cups or DSS axles made with the Evo style 300m stub inner cups.

Appreciate the efforts. I'll put the rear LSD project aside for now. Perhaps next year I'll splurge on the DSS axle/evo cup combo with the Cusco LSD - total piece of mind. I just cant commit to all of that atm. I under estimated the project thinking I could Frankenstein a cost effective solution but the Evo cups are proving futile atm.

Again, thanks for your time.

Ps. Mind checking your DMs. I have questions about ordering from you.

 

[randizzle420]

Someone on FB marketplace was upset a rear LSD diff for a manual gsx sold hella quick. I was like hm and started searching and realized there's like..nothing out there. Having a 95 gsx 5 speed with LSD rear diff I'm like should I send this thing in to get rebuilt since there isn't anymore being made? I seen a lot of 3000gt vr4 diffs online but you can't just hook those up to our stock axles and subframe correct? You'd have to get the vr4 subframe and axles? O_O Also I can't even find the damn part number on any of these mitsubishi warehouse websites for a LSD rear differential assembly. They only list non LSD like the LSD rear differential didn't even exist on my car after putting in my vin number..

 

[twicks69]

The rear diffs haven't been sold by Mitsu for years and years. Your only hope are used parts.

 

[randizzle420]

The rear diffs haven't been sold by Mitsu for years and years. Your only hope are used parts.

I saw on teamripz says on their website they sell the rear diff but without a core they charge an extra $900 (doesn't mention about about LSD though). Not sure if it's outdated though. I see there's vr4 rear differentials available but unsure how I'd go that route if I had no options. Would that require a new subframe, axles, custom driveshaft? Im trying to figure out the least painful way to fix the problem if my diff ever craps out. Anything preventable to keep it going like a rebuild? Think I seen some rear differential billet casing for it.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Andrew makes a rear dif cover with a brace and preload bolts. It is what the Red Demon ran (or may still be running if they didn't go to a 3000gt rear dif). It "helps" hold the rear dif bearings in place. I have one on one of my 1g cars.

2G DSM Girdled Rear Diff Cover

These girdled diff covers are where Frontline Fabrication started. After fabricating hundreds of them out of welded steel, we finally graduated to CNC milling capabilities and these are the result. Today, there are girdled diff covers on most all of the quickest and fastest DSM's in the country...

www.frontlinefabrication.com