Is this normal on a new motor? Need some advice..

[little-razcal]

First some history....

I recently dropped in a completely rebuilt motor consisting of a Eagle/Wiseco, CB head, Kelford 280's, HTA3586, JMF Drag, ETS 4", Kiggly's, ect.. After 50 miles the oil cooler contacted ground and the number 4 rod siezed to the crank. It took me a lot of time and money to build this car and all I can say is, well it sucked. Anyway..I have the block back from the machine shop having the crank polished, align bore checked, yada yada...and want to get some advice on some things I have been puzzled about since I tore her apart.

A little more history...

During the motor's short life, I dealt with a fuel issue I couldn't track down. I was constantly getting the smell of raw fuel in my oil or flooding the motor and fouling plugs. I changed anything and everything to resolve this issue, and finally got it to the point where she would run pretty good on her own. The motor didnt smoke one bit, but ate fuel like crazy. This is on the stock 450's running dual Bosch 044's in parallel . I choose to not use the BM1650's for breakin as I didn't want the very thing it ended up happening happen. Compression on the motor after the first few runs down the road was an even 160psi across the board. I was pleased with that considering the fueling issues. I believe I still have an issue somewhere, but I will have to track it down once the motor gets thrown back in this weekend. I wanted to put that out there because I am trying to figure out why my combustion chambers look the way they look, and maybe this played a part.

Once I pulled the head off the motor after only 50 miles, my pistons looked like this..

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You can see they are still wet with fuel and have considerable buildup already.
Is this normal with only 50 miles?

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Then I look at the combustion chambers and see these wierd little white dots. They are actually clean spots on each intake valve. This has got me totally baffled. WTF is this from? Does this have something to do with fuel leaking by my valves when the car is off dripping down and cleaning the chamber off before it falls on the piston? I have no idea. Ive searched and searched and still can't find anyone that has had this issue.

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Then my intake ports have oil coated all threw them as well as my intake manifold. The edges of the runners and down near the seat of the valves show nasty carbon deposit chunks.. I'm thinkin blowby? Is this normal on new rings that havent seated yet, especially that has an over fueling issue?

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I can take better pictures showing the grit collected on certain spots if people want them. I know one thing wrong I did was I just had a stock valve cover on with only the breather hose dumped the the ground. The PCV was hooked to nothing. I have a -10 catch can setup for this car but just threw that on for the intial startup and breakin of the rings. I didnt think I would get this much blow by so quick. My intercooler pipes are clean as well as the intake, so I don't believe the oil is coming from the turbo. It's brand new strait from FP. The oil film is only behind the TB. I know we get oil in our intake when we have the PCV line going to the IM but I had zero lines going from VC to manifold. So Im starting to wonder if this all happened before my rings started to seat, or this is from just not having a proper PCV system creating to much pressure. I did hit 18lbs twice for two quick 1-2 pulls checking WG spring, but the rest of the miles were idle and cruise with plenty of engine breaking.

I filled the intake ports with carb cleaner to checked for leaks and found not one valve had leaked anything after 30 min. I was thinking maybe all my intake valves were bent and this the raw fuel was leaking past them creating the spots. But they all held fine and the car ran pretty good when it didn't want to flood. This was with the cams out of the head so maybe the slight pressure of the cams are causing them to open a little. But all of them at the same time? Im truely at a loss. This is all new to me and I just dont want to build this motor back together again and have an underlying issue I can address now. Again... this is a brand new Curt Brown built head. (Kiggly springs, Supertech valves, Supertech seals, new guides, comp valve job, ect..) I really dont think this is coming from the head but who knows. If anyone could shed some light on what you think the issue is from I would be so greatful. If I had bad rings, bad seals or bad guide's, wouldn't I see smoke from burning oil? I think this is mainly from my over fueling issue..... but how? I constantly had fuel smell in my oil but couldn't that be from not having a proper PCV system? Im really trying to throw this thing back together again and try to accomplish what I set out to do a month ago. The season opens up very soon and I need this puppy up and running. . All input is welcome. Thanks guys.

 

[little-razcal]

Any ideas guys? Id like to put the motor back together this weekend and I don't want to cover up a underlying issue. This is one of the few places I have to ask advice about our platform. Give me some ideas.

I would like to add that I was getting a really wierd knock at low loads just cruising around. I thought it might had been from the twin disc noise, but now I'm starting to think it was a result of my issue. Idk..

Has anybody ever seen spots like these?

 

[JacksonAuto]

You shouldn't have any blowby, even with new rings. An engine with properly honed cylinders should have leakdown numbers in the 6-8% range before it's even started up for the first time. Over-fueling issue could be your problem. If any engine runs rich enough the fuel will act as a solvent and wash the oil away from the cylinder walls. Without proper lubrication the rings will overheat and lose their abilitiy to seal and the walls will glaze over.

What were your ring end gaps? Is it possible that the ends were butting together? Did you verify that the rings fit properly in the grooves and had the proper back clearance?


The oil in the chambers could have been the culprit of the knock you were seeing. I wouldn't be in a rush to put it back together over the weekend. If you put it back the way it was it's going to do the same thing again. The block needs to be cleaned and honed and the rings need to be replaced. When you do get it back together, fire it up and break it in on the stock injectors and stock tune to avoid this from happening again.

 

[little-razcal]

You shouldn't have any blowby, even with new rings. An engine with properly honed cylinders should have leakdown numbers in the 6-8% range before it's even started up for the first time. Over-fueling issue could be your problem. If any engine runs rich enough the fuel will act as a solvent and wash the oil away from the cylinder walls. Without proper lubrication the rings will overheat and lose their abilitiy to seal and the walls will glaze over.

What were your ring end gaps? Is it possible that the ends were butting together? Did you verify that the rings fit properly in the grooves and had the proper back clearance?


The oil in the chambers could have been the culprit of the knock you were seeing. I wouldn't be in a rush to put it back together over the weekend. If you put it back the way it was it's going to do the same thing again. The block needs to be cleaned and honed and the rings need to be replaced. When you do get it back together, fire it up and break it in on the stock injectors and stock tune to avoid this from happening again.

This was your (JAM) stage 2 shortblock with zero miles. I received zero specs on the motor, so I have no idea on what the ring gap was. Any honing was done by yourself so I have faith this all was done correct. I do knkw I had zero smoke and a perfect 160 across the board before pulling the head. I did however have constant smell of gas in the oil and of course this blowby, so I don't know what was going on.

This was all on stock 450 injectors.. I tried anything and everything to get this issue figured out, but had no inclination I had blowby like this. If my rings weren't doing there job, wouldn't I see smoke from burning oil?
What the hell are these dots on my valve seat? I just don't understand what the hell is going on. All I can think of is I am dumping so much fuel that once the car shuts off, there is actually a drip on each valve seat.
You can see my pistons had a lot of gunk on them and buildup already. Remember the motor flooded a few times out of the blue, so I'm sure this played a role. But how the heck does my intake track get coated with this oil. How could it be blowby on a perfect 160psi motor?

The only thing I can think is my ECU is sticking the injectors open when the shouldn't be thus creating this drip and clean spot. I had Tom check my ECU, but it came back fine. The only thing I haven't changed is the AFPR. I did however open it up and the diaphragm looks fine. I'm truley at a lose.

So after checking the ring gaps over and over again. The top and bottom ring are both .022 with one cylinder actually .024 up top. .All my bottom rings are exactly .022.

Isnt the bottom supposed to be opened a little bigger?

 

[JacksonAuto]

Whats your name? I can look it up and find out what we did. Seems like the rings got washed out for whatever reason. It's perfectly normal for an engine to have acceptable compression number yet still smoke and have blowby. This is why I always recommend that customers perform a leakdown test to find the problem before tearing into an engine.

Low voltage could also cause a rich condition. It slows down the response of the injector open/close rate which essentially increases the time that they're open. Check your alternator, battery and grounds.

Vacuum leak

Dirt stuck on the pintle of the injector.

If you want to bring it by I can clean it up and check it over for you. If need be we can hone it so you can get it back together.

 

[MichaelSuch]

Can you update your modifications, all it says is built which tells me nothing. You said you are running dual 044 fuel pumps. Are you running an AFPR or stock fuel pressure regulator? What is your base fuel pressure set to? Are you using the factory ECU or do you have Link?

 

[bryanwheat]

Can you update your modifications, all it says is built which tells me nothing. You said you are running dual 044 fuel pumps. Are you running an AFPR or stock fuel pressure regulator? What is your base fuel pressure set to? Are you using the factory ECU or do you have Link?

This is what i was wondering. 2 bosch 044's thru the stock regulator will over run it pretty bad.

 

[bastarddsm]

What fuel pressure regulator are you useing? A failed one can put raw fuel out the vacum port and really richen it up.

 

[DSMTyson]

What fuel pressure regulator are you useing? A failed one can put raw fuel out the vacum port and really richen it up.

^^^ This. Took the words straight out of my mouth. This ^ happened to my old stock FPR that had been used on a wally 255hp for over a year. Dual 044s could definately do this.

 

[little-razcal]

Guys. I understand your hesitation from lack of info, but I can assure you the car is done right. The only things I haven't changed so far is the tcase and the rear.

Dual 044's in parallel prefiltered
Jmfabrications fuel cell
-8 feed
-6 return
Magnus fuel rail
Fuel land -8 inline filter
Aeromotive A1000 AFPR

Base fuel pressure of 37 psi
Stock 450's for break-in

I have BM1650's and the Easytune but all this happened on stock injectors.

Engine management through ECMLink V3 on speed density. Aem 5 bar, GM Iat.