New 1g, Need advice on motor build!

[swarm]

Hi. I just bought a '91 Eclipse GSX after selling my '95 TSi AWD and crankwalking my '95 TSi FWD. So anyway, I got this car for $500. It's a '91 GSX with 100k on the odo and a rebuild head, rebuilt 14b, ACT 2600. Awesome body... etc...

Problem is, it won't run. I don't care why exactly... I just decided I am going to rebuild the bottom end, since the previous mechanic that was working on it before I bought it said he thought it was the bottom end. Anyhow, I'v never built a motor, but I have a good friend who has built a 302 ford motor.... He knows a lot about motors and will be assisting me. Any tips? I don't want a 10,000 mile motor.

Anyhow, Can you guys give me some options? Is it possible to keep the bottom end under $1,000? If so, what can I get for that? And also, if not, $1500? I know you will ask what my goals are, so here it is. I want a mid 12-second car. I know this can be done on stock internals, but while I'm in there, if the aftermarket things are only slightly priced higher than stock, why not, y'know? When I hit 12's, I bet it'll bite me to go faster. Anyhow, if it was you, what would you do? What is the possibility of doing a stroker under $2000? I can get the crank for $375 new. I have never built a motor or even seen one getting built. I have only done bolt-ons on my 2g's... Love these cars. So..... I'm wondering.. what all will I need? I have searched a bit but seem to find incomplete lists from what I know and I don't see anywhere where there are tips on rebuilding these things. I found a thread on here about rebuilding a motor in 10 min, and there was a big argument about fingerprints even.. Things like that are what I need to know. Gloves or no gloves, I'm not gonna argue -- I'll use gloves - it doesn't hurt shit. I do have all the tools, because I have access to my father's garage and also some friends who build motors. All in all, I am just looking to get this thing running somewhat reliably and to be able to hold some decent power... 350-400 range. I know you guys know the most, so I am going to leave the information up to you. Thanks in advance!

In case it wasn't clear, I just need a list and approx. prices for a bottom end rebuild... immagine you taking the motor out with a perfect head and needing to rebuild it and put it back; that's where I'm at right now.

 

[bullettdsm]

Not that I'm being lazy but I will leave the answer to the others (I am running down to work on the 1g). Just wanted to say, nice post . Good information and goal directives. You showed that you did some homework before posting. Clear questions that you want answered.

Thanks, gotta go,
MB

 

[blackGSX2g]

Here is a rough rundown of my bottom end build:

Wiseco 9:1 .020" pistons and rings from Buschur - $350

Eagle H-beam rods from SBR - $323

Clevite 77 main and rod bearings from SBR - $100

Buschur machine work on block (tank, bore, hone, etc) - $350 (local machine shop charges like $15/cylinder to bore and hone, but at the time I didn't know anyone around here)

Polish crankshaft - $28

BSE kit - $20

plus various gaskets and seals here and there.

The actual assembly of a bottom end is not very difficult. I built mine in a clean room with latex gloves change quite often. Make sure you check your clearances for every bearing, ring end, and piston-bore (should be right at the machine shop, but you never know) and if they are good, then you can begin the build. I used Royal Purple assembly lube on all the moving parts and I would recommend the same to you.

 

[swarm]

Thanks for the info! Anyone else have input?

 

[Superbeast406]

Does the motor turn over, or not even do anything? Its hard to say How much the bottom end rebuild will cost without knowing whats wrong with the motor. If it won't run, and the bottom end is the problem you might need everything from the crank to the valves if the t-belt broke(pricey depending on whats needed), or maybe just bearings and a crank turn (less than 400 if you stick with stock parts).
Don't forget about the top end, at least have a valve job done while its apart. You'll probably want ARP head studs and a good head gasket. Then just to be safe, I'd replace all the timing components that wear - belt(obviously), idler and tensioner pulleys, and tensioner. That along with the bottom end components blackgsx2g mentioned should give you a good, reliable starting point to run 12's.
Who knows, the mechanic could be wrong. Sometimes when they know there won't be good money involved in a job they guess on the expensive side to make the car go away.
Oh yeah, don't forget a good set of piston rings. When you pull the piston out of the bore, it has to be re-honed, there is no going back. If you're not doing pistons and rings, don't pull them out.

 

[bullettdsm]

Ok I'm back. First off, you don't need the stroker to get 350-400 (but you may want it for the low end response). I don't really know about the cost on strokers, but I am not high on them anyway. As for the bottom end, I just had my machining done for $300 (decked, checked, bored, cleaned, and even pressed in the wrist pins). If your crank is out of spec, DO NOT let them talk you into cutting it! Though some on here have gotten away with it, you should consider the crank unserviceable. If you are out of spec, you can get a good one used for around $75.

Rod and main bearings; around $60 although cleavites etc probably cost a little more.

Balance shaft removal; around $2. Had stuff laying around the shop. You can get kits for $20.

Full gasket kit; around $150.

Piston and ring sets; depends on what you are getting. I chose stock. Start at $130 and work up.

Head gasket; as you probably know you will never get a definitive answer on that. I have no problem with going with stock. No quams what-so-ever.

The stock rods are more than capable of handling 400 (provided they are good). Have them checked by the shop (part of my machine shop deal).

Timing belt kit around $130. Don't skimp here. Get the whole kit. One bearing can EFF up your whole motor

Oil pump. I didn't need one. I had a relatively new one; around $175ish.

Water pump. Also did not need for same reason. Around $45.

That's the list. I probably left something out others will chime in. BUT you do know that this is not where you'll get you 350-400. You will get that in your top end, turbo, and tuning. People are making those numbers and more on stock USED bottom ends. They are getting the power out of the top end.
Hope this was helpful. Good luck.
MB

 

[swarm]

Thanks guys. As said in original post, head is rebuilt. I will see what else was done while I am in there.. I will inspect such things.. I know about all of the gaskets and such.. obviously... I'm more asking about actual specifics on the bottom end build.. what pistons, rods, bearing, rings, etc should I run? What is your prefrence and more importantly, why? What is up with 2g pistons on 1g rods? My uncle is a machinist in Texas so I can send him my parts for machining, provided they are not too large... eg. block.. but I will if I need to... What's the better intake mani? 2g intake mani is better and so is the exhaust mani, right? These are some of the things I need to know... When building a 1g... What's the best to do on a budget? Not including the turbo, injectors etc... just the actual motor and such.... Thanks guys! Just looking to get opinions on what I should do with the actual internals.... my goals are stated in first post...

After much research, I have found that the most cost effective way to do this is to get the full rebuild kit from slowboy or another vendor for $500... but I wonder... should I get 2g pistons and machine them to fit 1g rods? ultimately what is the advantage of this? It seems my 1g head is much better, but I will get a 2g exhaust manifold...

What do you guys think?

 

[bullettdsm]

The parts list I gave you was a boned down budget type list. You can choose where you want to add or subtract based on your needs and resources. I do want to add that I did not mention the arp head studs. I consider these a must (through the froums and experience)! Torque past manufacuter's specs. From 90 to 115 I've seen. I do 95.

The 2g pistons give you a bit more comp. Lots of people go with that.
Check out this link: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202973&highlight=wiseco+pistons I like it for it's clarity.

I like the cleavites for bearings; tested, tried and true.

ITM, Ross, Wiseco, Topline etc. Yeah, multiple choice on the pistons. Forged = unneeded.
In all honesty, for my recent rebuild, I went with the Toplines. I believe that one of the biggest factors of piston longevity is the tuning. I suspect that a lot of bad experiences actually come from people washing out cylinders or running high knock and detonation. But keep in mind that I built engines for a living many, many years ago. I like to test out my theories on my own engines. So I will not have a "hissy fit" if I have to tear down this engine. It's part of the learning process for these particular engines. (yeah, I bet that info was helpful ).

1g intake mani + 2g exhaust mani. The consistent hook-up with the stock parts. Port out and polish the exhaust mani (polish the s**t out of it. Make it like an ss pipe. You are looking for flow). Polish up the intake mani (as much as you can with these mani's. They are awfully rough. You can extrude hone but there you are talking about more money. Port and polish you can do yourself or your uncle can do).

You say you are just talking about your bottom end, so I will leave it at that.

There's a little of my .02 centavos.

MB

Oops, I didn't notice in your last post that you were askin' about engine internals. I'll leave the head, headgasket and cam choice for others.