Need advice on built motor gone bad

[-red97rum-]

If it weren't for bad luck you would't have any luck at all.

After I posted the Comet as a possible solution and expecting some flack from someone wanting to play hero I did a search of the internet and found exactly 1 hit. It's this sort of stuff that needs to be preserved for it's never taught in any vocational school, not in any repair manual and few have ever heard of it and fewer had the guts to try it. I've only used it for this situation you have, I'd never consider it on a worn engine.
Cheers,
GTM

I've also heard of using borasso(sp?) hand soap to get rid of the glaze and help the rings seat properly. I knew this older guy that used to build "old school" airplane engines and he swore by using borasso if the rings didn't seat. Makes sense seeing that comet and borasso are pretty similar in texture.

Take care,

Dustin

 

[GTM]

I've also heard of using borasso(sp?) hand soap to get rid of the glaze and help the rings seat properly. I knew this older guy that used to build "old school" airplane engines and he swore by using borasso if the rings didn't seat. Makes sense seeing that comet and borasso are pretty similar in texture.

Not sure if I understand your spelling, there is Brasso which comes in a can in white liquid form for polishing brass. Then there is Boraxo which is a powder made of soap and borax a mineral.

To my knowledge Comet is made with some type of soap and pumice a volcanic "rock" that is quite light and will float on water. It's actually a glass compound, if you use Lava bar soap the abrasive is pumice.

I know what Comet will do to polished surfaces but never tried the Boraxo so it might be worth a little test.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bastard1g]

Still smokes when I let it idle for a little bit. I dont understand how my car smokes intermitently? Sometimes it great and sometimes it looks like a chimney. I am still looking into getting a leakdown test.

 

[Big Woo]

Are you able to identify when it smokes, for example is there a specific set of conditions that will make it smoke, or not. Knowing the conditions when the smoking occurs or does not occur may help with the diagnosis.

At this point a leakdown test may help identify some possible problem areas.

 

[Bastard1g]

Its only at idle or when slowing down in gear.when I get on it, the motor doesnt smoke at all.

 

[GTM]

Its only at idle or when slowing down in gear.when I get on it, the motor doesnt smoke at all.

This usually is intake valve seals though there will be some some when leaving from a traffic signal. More rare is oil control rings but this should be seen when driving if they are not doing their job at speed. Do you look in your rear view mirror at night when someone is behind you to see if there is any smoke?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bastard1g]

Yea, it smokes at idle and a lil bit more smoke comes out right when I take off, right after that its clear. Also When the engine is slowing the car down (high vaccum) it smokes too. It is so intermitent that it doesnt smoke for a few days, then all of a sudden.........its back. Also does it when around people only. When I am bymyself its fine, but guys from work laugh at my smoke box.

 

[Phil92TSI]

I posted earlier because my Talon was having the exact same symptoms. It would only smoke on coastdown and at idle and as it turns out it was the valve seals. In particular, it was one exhaust valve seal. When I pulled the head off, I found that one of the exhaust valve seals had come off the guide. I replaced all the valve seals with oem seals and it has completely eliminated the burning oil.

 

[GTM]

...
Also does it when around people only. When I am bymyself its fine, but guys from work laugh at my smoke box.

Have you considered this thing might be out of the Twilight Zone and you are going to pass into another dimension?

I'm really thinking it's intake valve seals. Can you describe how they were installed?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bastard1g]

I actually had a non turbo head with turbo cams installed. my turbo head took a crap on me and the guy that did my head said he had an extra. It turned out that the cams were non turbo and I had to put non turbo cams in my car. Sucks. I am going to call the guy friday and see whats up with him and see what he can do for me. Is there anything he can do without pulling the head?

 

[GTM]

...
I am going to call the guy friday and see whats up with him and see what he can do for me. Is there anything he can do without pulling the head?

Argh, I thought they were new!! So you bought a used head that the guy told you they were new.

Yes it's possible to replace the seals with the head on the car. It is done by putting the piston at TDC and applying compressed air to the cylr, using a valve spring compressor the spring is removed and the seal is replaced. An alternate method is to force string into the cylr through the spark plug hole and then the piston it brought up to TDC and the valve springs removed. I favor the string method for there is less chance of bending valves though it's more time consuming. The fact he has not been straight arrow with you would make me a bit uncomfortable with him unless you know he can do good work.

Keep us posted.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, he said he rebuilt the head. It was cleaned and stuff, looked like new. I just dont know. Even if it is just the head, I would be way happier with a bad head than a bad block. I can always just buy another head and swap them out one day. This car is a daily driver so I will have to figure something out. Maybe I will now have a reason to slap on some cams.

 

[Bastard1g]

Just a lil while ago, I cleaning out my combustion chamber with some water but I dont think it worked too well. I dont think I used enough water either. I noticed no difference in idle or performance but I did notice a milkshake on my dipstick. Whats up with that? I tried cleaning out my combustion chamber because of the nasty carbon build up I had on my pistons. Sucks.

 

[GTM]

Just a lil while ago, I cleaning out my combustion chamber with some water but I dont think it worked too well. I dont think I used enough water either. I noticed no difference in idle or performance but I did notice a milkshake on my dipstick. Whats up with that? I tried cleaning out my combustion chamber because of the nasty carbon build up I had on my pistons. Sucks.

I guess I've heard of everything now, who the blazes told you to do that??

You have to dain that oil and then add a flushing agent to the new oil and run that for x hours and then change that. Argh, you guys, you guys. Why didn't you ask someone before you made that quantum leap??

Cheers,
GTM

 

[bullettdsm]

Just a lil while ago, I cleaning out my combustion chamber with some water but I dont think it worked too well. I dont think I used enough water either. I noticed no difference in idle or performance but I did notice a milkshake on my dipstick. Whats up with that? I tried cleaning out my combustion chamber because of the nasty carbon build up I had on my pistons. Sucks.

Oh my god! I left this thread for a while and just came back. ! This just gets stranger and stranger. I am not familiar with the cylinder cleaning that you describe. Did you at least put some dish soap in there to help clean with? ! OK, I am not laughing at your expense (alright, maybe a little). I know your situation sucks. I've been in plenty before. From your previous posts I am now leaning toward valve seals. What you describe definitely lights up that descriptor. BUT I am concerned with what really happened to your motor. Do you really have a good rebuild or is something goofy going on? For some reason I thought you had a new head on also (maybe something from a previous post?). Then the turbo to N/T change with rebuild. Are you sure that there was nothing goofy about the block? Or the rings? Now you have to clean out the engine. This MAY take a couple o' few cleanings. OUCH!
No flame or disrespect intended, I know you have been workin' hard on this problem. I think I would look at the seals after you get cleaned up (no pun intended).

And GTM, you are talking about filling the cylinder with something safe (string) at BDC then bringing up the piston to hold the bottom of the valve from dropping, correct? I just want to clarify the specifics to be sure someone doesn't do something funny/stange (not funny/HaHa).
MB

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, I was desperate to see some change. My motor backfires on idle and deceleration. i have a perfect a/f ratio,new plugs and wires and no boost leaks. I have ran out of ideas. After I tried the ghetto flush, I drained all that nasty black oil out of my engine, I take a whiff and smell fuel. There is fuel in my oil!!!!!!! I dont know what to do now, I think its safe to say that my motor isnt any good. Also, as I wasletting water get sucked into my motor, i noticed it was coming out of my motor somewhere else, i couldnt tell though but it was somewhere near the exhaust. Maybe out of the head somewhere. Could a head gasket not sealing cause fuel in my oil? The head was rebuilt with "new" valve guide seals. The block was rebuilt with topline pistons .020 over with arp rod bolts, metal mitsu 4 layer metal hg, arp head studs and balance shaft eliminator kit.

 

[GTM]

Well, I was desperate to see some change. My motor backfires on idle and deceleration. i have a perfect a/f ratio,new plugs and wires and no boost leaks. I have ran out of ideas. After I tried the ghetto flush, I drained all that nasty black oil out of my engine, I take a whiff and smell fuel. There is fuel in my oil!!!!!!! I dont know what to do now, I think its safe to say that my motor isnt any good. Also, as I wasletting water get sucked into my motor, i noticed it was coming out of my motor somewhere else, i couldnt tell though but it was somewhere near the exhaust. Maybe out of the head somewhere. Could a head gasket not sealing cause fuel in my oil? The head was rebuilt with "new" valve guide seals. The block was rebuilt with topline pistons .020 over with arp rod bolts, metal mitsu 4 layer metal hg, arp head studs and balance shaft eliminator kit.

If I didn't mention, most frequently the popping and explosions in the exhaust are caused by a leak in the exhaust system close to the exh. manifold or downpipe. Air gets drawn into the system and mixes with the unburned gas on decel or when there is negative pressuer to cause the explosions. To locate you need to increase back pressure by using a wet rag to partially plug the exhaust and examine the system for leaks.
...........

Again, misunderstanding. You introduced the water while the engine was running and not through the spark plug hole. The fact it leaked past the rings into the oil was unusual if that was the cause of the oil/water froth on the dipstick. It also says you are only driving the car for short trips where the vapor cannot be extracted. Most certainly if this condition existed previously the a head gasket is to be suspect.
...........

Some fuel in the oil is to be expected for under normal conditions the system is designed to store fuel vapor from the gas tank in the engine and the carbon canister which then gets purged when the engine is run. If you have modified this system or some component has failed then a higher build up can occur. A good run on the freeway should boil these out and purged through the PCV valve and burned. There are services which will examine an oil sample and give you a detailed report on the result. ($25-$35?)
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If it's not the valve seals then it's the rings, it does not preclude the possibility the head gasket can be blown, however this would not be causing the oil burning which you are experiencing.
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The string is heavy cotton like you would use for tying packages. Introduced when the piston is 1/2-2/3 the way up on compression stroke and should mostly fill the combustion chamber when then rotated to TDC. It is to prevent accidents such as the valve falling and any minor impact when using tools to remove the spring hats and keepers. It doesn't remove the possibility of stupidity if someone was determined to not use common sense. Years of experience have taught me to use a hammer and socket rather than a valve spring compressor for it's much faster but I cannot endorse this for anyone but an experienced professional.
................

Early on in this thread I made mention of carb dip as a means of removing carbon and glaze from pistons, rings and cylrs. This is/was the same or near same solution used in the hot tank process for blocks. The two trade names I remember are Tyme and McAy's(sp), to be effective this solution must be shaken well and 1/2 cup or more is poured throuh the spark plug hole, the engine is rotated a couple times by hand and allowed to soak for 12+ hours. The liquid is then suctioned off and then Sotddard solvent is used to rinse and this too is suctioned off followed by another rinse with 50/50% mix of oil and solvent for lube before starting. READ my lips for _sure_ if fitting clearances are not to specifications it will make matters worse and the engine will smoke and use oil.
...............

All of this is for one goal, to avoid pulling the engine down until the root cause is determined. I'm grasping at straws here for an engine that has been repported as being completely rebuilt. I don't know the competency of the people or what was done or where something is wrong. The options are quickly being reduced and someone is going to have to bite the bullet and make a decision.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bastard1g]

Good point about the exhaust leak, that would explain why unburned water would come out of my manifold area, i will try to tighten down my manifold studs to see if there is a difference. Also, there is an oil build up on my exhaust manifold gasket, I am thinking that it may be my hg leaking. I dont understand why though, because I have a 4 layer metal hg from mitsu. I applied copper spray and torqued it down to spec. I must admit that I didnt retorque like I should have.

When I snatched my valve cover off yesterday, I noticed that my head had black,thin oil on it. I checked my oil today and it was allready black. This may be from running really rich for a couple of days due to a mas wire coming loose and barely running. I am going to change my oil again in a couple of days and try again. I may even try the comet treatment again in a few days. When I tried the comet treatment, I didnt use but teaspoon if that, and I think I blew it all out because I tried starting my car with the injectors not plugged in. I am going to take a picture of my head and you can make an assumption of how it looks. I really appreciate all your help.

 

[Bastard1g]

I couldnt attach the pix in a post so I put a few in my gallery, so please look at those pix and tell me what you think about them. I know that it is probably not good.

 

[Bastard1g]

Also, I went to retorque my manifold studs and the one in the middle bottom will just turn now. I believe that one is the one for the oil passage. I will check in about 1/2 an hour to see if it leaks. I can guess where my exhaust leak is coming from.

 

[Bastard1g]

Also, do you think installing a pcv valve and hooking my crank case vent on my valve cover up to my intake help with the smoke? My friend doesnt run it but, since my motor smokes, I might as well give it a try.

 

[pneumo]

Also, do you think installing a pcv valve and hooking my crank case vent on my valve cover up to my intake help with the smoke? My friend doesnt run it but, since my motor smokes, I might as well give it a try.

Yes, give it a try.

 

[Bastard1g]

I spoke with a friend of mine last night and see said to just try to hollow out the pcv valve out for now and see if it helps.

 

[pneumo]

I spoke with a friend of mine last night and see said to just try to hollow out the pcv valve out for now and see if it helps.

No, don't do that. It would be like having a big vac/boost leak if you did. I'm glad you asked first.

 

[Bastard1g]

Naw, I never had the manifold hooked up to the pcv valve. I just had the valve sitting there unplugged witht he manifold nipple plugged.