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How hard from 1-10?

Posted by eddyspaghetti, Jul 18, 2019

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  1. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

    78
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    Joined Mar 27, 2016
    san francisco, California
    Hello fellow DSM r's, question for anybody who has done this. How hard from 1 to 10 in your opinion is switching from a T25 turbo to a Evo 3 16g turbo? Along with the fuel pump etc.. any honest opinions would be super helpful thanks guys have a good one :)
     
  2. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    London, Europe
    Depends on your personal skill level, for someone who is skilled at cars its a 1! For someone who has no clue how to change oil then its a 10!

    If you can do your own timing belt then this will be easy for you
     

    Road Race Build 8K  47

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  3. frosh29

    frosh29 Proven Member

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    Wallington, New Jersey
    I agree, it depends on your skill set and another important things is TOOLS. You need good tools when working on cars. It can be the difference between a 4 hour job and a 1 hour job.

    The only other thing to have it time. If you plan correctly and don't rush through it, it's not a difficult job.
     

    Street Build 138  1

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  4. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

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    Independence, Minnesota
    2
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.793 @ 128.98 · 2G DSM
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  5. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Rathdrum, Idaho
    I agree with @Boomdeeze
    If you can read, turn a wrench, and follow a tech article on here, swapping a 16g in is a cake walk.

    Vfaq- http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2G-16G.html

    Jafromobile install vid-

    Links pilfered from another thread on here.
     

    Street Build 117  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    234  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 746  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  6. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    If you have to ask it is at least a 6/10. Have you ever extracted a broken bolt? The swap is super easy if everything goes as planned. The difficulty comes when things go awry. My advice is always plan for the worst and hope for the best. Better to be prepared for every eventuality before you begin.
     

    Street Build 6K  15

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
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  7. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    I feel the turning wrrenches & install side will be easier compared to the tunng aspects after the install. What are your plans for addressing tuning after the turbo upgrade?
     
  8. 2gmitsueclipse

    2gmitsueclipse DSM Wiseman

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    Auburn Hills, Michigan
    I agree with Bobby about skill level making it difficult to put a number to the difficulty of this job. I can say that once I got my first DSM, I really wanted to learn to do everything myself. This site has played a big role in providing the knowledge needed to help me learn to complete tasks on my own.

    As to your plans, there are some considerations to take when upgrading the turbo (even if only and EvoIII 16g). Aside from the turbo, you will need to look into supporting mods, one of which the fuel pump you mentioned. Depending on what your plans are you have a choice to make. A pump no larger than 190lph should not overrun the stock fuel pressure regulator. Walbro 190lph or an Evo 8/9 pump will work here. Above this range, I highly reccomend upgrading the fuel pressure regulator. In both cases, rewiring the fuel pump should also be completed. You could get away with the stock injectors so long as boost is left at OE levels with at least a fuel pump rewire, but will need to monitor boost levels (16g turbos tend to boost spike) and AFR's. If you want to turn boost up a little bit, you could get away with Evo 8/9 injectors, but will need to have a way to tune. Additionally, the 16g will heat soak the stock side mount intercooler when pushed anything above OE boost levels (and likely at OE as well). Many choose to upgrade this at the same time. If you change any fuel injectors or large pumps, you must have a way to tune the vehicle. The easiest method is ECMLink.
    If you are set on installing this turbo, below is a great walk-through I used for my first turbo swap many moons ago. Take a look through it to determine e if this is a task you are up for. I know there are other ways/methods to use for coolant lines and oil drain.
    - http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2G-16G.html

    If you want another suggestion if you aren't quite ready for the supporting mods for a 16g, then I would consider a 14b, or even better, a T-28. The T-28 is a DIRECT swap and can run on stock fuel (still want to rewire the fuel pump) setups at OE boost pressure. With either of these setups, I would still reccomend a wideband o2 setup to monitor AFR's along with a more accurate boost gauge.

    Feel free to reach out with any questions.

    @ThunderChild : I was still working on my response before yours was given....good link for install!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

    Autocross Build 18K  47

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

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    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
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  9. gofer

    gofer Moderator

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    If you have a high school education: 2
    If you have a BS in engineering: 4
    If you have a MS in engineering: 6
    If your a PhD: 8

    Sorry, I work with engineers all day and the more education they have the more incompetent they are with basic hand tools.

    Like everyone else said, if you have basic tools, ie, sockets, ratchets (3/8 and 1/2 drive with a breaker bar), screwdrivers you can get the job done. Also, PB Blaster is your friend to get the exhaust bolts out with breaking them.
     

    Street Build 15K  10  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

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  10. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    Roseville, California
    Agreed with @rabenne - it can go smoothly or you can spend half the day trying to extract a stripped/broken bolt or exhaust stud (assuming you pull the exhaust manifold) if you're not experienced in dealing with that. Have some extractors on hand, along with a variety of wrenches to get to the hard to reach areas. It was one of the bigger projects I took on when I was pretty new to these cars and it took me a while.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 6K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  11. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    Wisconsin, Wisconsin
    If you read everyone's comments, then decide which route to go, you'll definitely be better informed for best and worst case scenario.
    Make sure to have all parts on hand before you do anything, including the bolt extractors, cause that's a pain.
    If your worried about the headache of I need this,this,and this to swap to a Mhi turbo.2g mistu had a great suggestion. The fp t28 turbo, all you'll need for that swap is crush washers, but it is a direct bolt on.
     

    4K  14  14

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.300 @ 102.400 · 1G DSM
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  12. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

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    Winterville, MB, Canada
    Everything has been said quite eloquently so far so I will just add my two cents: just because something is a 9/10 difficulty does not mean you shouldnt do it either.

    I had not even changed a tire before I bought my Talon and did a complete engine rebuild. I learned from a few mistakes, redid my work, and have been running that same engine for over 6 years. Only recently took the top end off for reasons likely unrelated to my work but more a dead battery and grounds that had enough.

    read, get the tools if you need, and take a bit of time. It isnt that hard but, even if it is, pride follows shortly after.
     

    2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  13. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

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    san francisco, California
    Hey thanks for all the support fellas so because of what you guys said I'm thinking this will be like a four or five for me if I take my time you guys are pretty funny too this looks like a good Community to be a part of:) hopefully one day my car will be as nice as your guys's also another thing if I'm going to upgrade to a 16g will I need an upgrade the internals or will my engine be okay without new internals?
     
    Bud92gsx likes this.
  14. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 27, 2016
    san francisco, California
    Also I live in NorCal right now so I'm hoping I can find a good tuner once this is done
     
  15. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

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    The way I see it. If you have to ask then its a 10. The reason being is because you most likely have no idea where to start or what to do or own proper tools. What will happen is this. You will attempt because you feel that you have a lot of automotive knowledge when you sip your coffee away at Starbucks. You will run into situation where you dont have proper tool to do that particular bolt. So you will ask people to borrow and will make creative plan to make something work and eventually you will get that motherf**ker out and you will feel very manly. Unfortunately going back in wont be as easy because now you will need to source those bolts that you have rounded off and repair those threads that you have destroyed. Now on top of that you will most likely need an o2 sensor because you will most likely destroy it too. But at this point you will feel that you know better then any other mechanic on the planet so you must fix it. And you will, just a week or two later. At that point you will walk around and be proud that you swap turbos like you swap chicks in high school cafeteria and all you will be talking about is boost. So to conclude this fun story, it is not hard, its lack of experience and simple knowledge that will give you hard time but it could be fun if you are willing to deal with it. Have fun and get some cold beer. Its hot as f*ck outside. Good luck.
     

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  16. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

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    san francisco, California
    Well we all have to start somewhere no? Or are some of us just born with this knowledge out of our mom
     
  17. Bud92gsx

    Bud92gsx Proven Member

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    You do have to start somewhere. And I think asking , before diving Into it is a good idea. Or watching a few vids before han . Also helfpul.
    Look, when I started I was a pain on the forums, and had only done oil changes,thermostats and maybe exhausts. Then I learned from my mistakes, and the mistakes I made trying to attempt things like turbo swaps without knowing squat.
    Now I could swap out a turbo in probably an hour. I'm no Wiseman,but I do like to still help out the newbs before they run into a headache if I have sumthing to contribute.
    So hats off new guy, dont be afraid to ask questions around here, even if they may seem dumb to sum, because that's how you lear:mrt: :banana: :thumb:
     

    4K  14  14

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.300 @ 102.400 · 1G DSM
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  18. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

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    Clifton, New Jersey
    Well you first need to start somewhere but not the turbo. You also need to actually open the hood and get your hands dirty and not run and post first on the forum. You also should never mention anyone's mother or family in mans conversation unless it's positive because things will ascalete very quickly. Now I was being positive. Maybe it came out differant but generally speaking I was positive. So if I insulted you then I am sorry. You see we have these keyboard heros or master techs on forums and they build things and then it don't work so they blow up the forums and then few months later part out threads open.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  19. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

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    4
    Joined Mar 27, 2016
    san francisco, California
    See this right here is good dude and gets it, I plan on learning from my mistakes I mean that's the only way to learn right? I put on a new head after timing belt snapped and all the valves bent so went to the Pick-n-Pull and picked up a had from a GST that had a little bit miles hopefully and installed that one with a little help from my pops and I have taken off the turbo and put on again so I'm hoping putting on a 16g maybe we'll be direct bolt on? But I'm sure I'll get it done thanks for the help man I really appreciate it
     
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  20. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 27, 2016
    san francisco, California
    I also went ahead and installed ARP head while I was at it so I'm assuming those are good
     
  21. eddyspaghetti

    eddyspaghetti Proven Member

    78
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    Joined Mar 27, 2016
    san francisco, California
    Don't worry about it no offense taken we're all just here trying to become better DSM r's there's very few of us left LOL we must stick together hahaha
     
  22. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 17, 2014
    Clifton, New Jersey
    Also about the tuner. I hear tuners here, tuners there, and then they blame the tuner that they car was not set up right. Do yourself a favor and start reading and actually search and not instantly post. The information is there it's just that we have these Facebook builds and they usually last for few months and the tuner is the one who is guilty because of one reason or another. Actually one of those post was recent.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  23. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Build it, tune it, drive it.
    Built not bought.
    Everyone starts somewhere, I just happened to have been fascinated with cars since I was young, 1974-5-6ish. If you can read, thats what the service manual starts with. DISCONNECT BATTERY.....I have to laugh at that sometimes but always first.
    A Factory Service Manual is always the thing you can trust IMO, since any dumbass can work at a shop and start at the same place, Disconnect Battery LOL.
    Almost all of us know more than anyone else about these cars.
     

    293  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
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    Street Build 409  4

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  24. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

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    Winterville, MB, Canada
    Have to laugh indeed.. I KNOW I should be disconnecting it but sometimes I'm too lazy and try to loosen the nut on the positive terminal on the alternator while the battery is still connected.

    Then I end up welding a 10mm box wrench to radiator.. oops.
     

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
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  25. Mauispyder

    Mauispyder Supporting Member

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    Wow great thread to get every single active heavy hitter to chime in!
    I’m the equivalent of a PhD so it was a 7 for me and took 3-4 weeks. I did a T28 so I wouldn’t have to deal with the turbo outlet being on the opposite side and didn’t feel pressured to swap injectors and time right away.
    I broke bolts, that cost $14 each. Couldn’t figure out where or what size crush washers I needed and had a generally hard time sourcing new exhaust gaskets. Well it got done and it’s a lot of fun. Don’t forget to check for boost leaks and replace your bob if it’s stock!
     

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