Help with cam timing

[1Gina2G]

I can get all the other marks to line up and STAY lined up after the belt is tensioned accept the cam sprockets. I line up the camshaft and place the cam gear jamming tool to hold them in place while the belt is installed, and I keep noticing them go out of place when I check the timing.

Can someone look at my cams and tell me which way I need to move them? I'm pretty sure I need to redo the timing again
I keep reading that the marks need to be comepletley flat and checked with a strait edge, and lined up with the heads surface but I can't get them lined up right without being a half tooth off.

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[92AWDHX40]

Move the intake so it lines up, with the exhaust cam, vfaq.is a great source check it out to line that thing up.

 

[JayB12]

I kept having the same issue, my cams would rotate over about 1 tooth after wrapping the crank sprocket. Then I did this and they stayed in the same lined up position while timing everything else in. Or else your having an issue when setting the auto tensioner. Also make sure you have them perfectly strait when doing this.

 

[vingasoline]

Do the cams first, then keep the belt tight and go idler pulley, oil pump then you'll notice you have to turn the crank backwards a bit to get the belt on it. Once you get the belt on the crank, turn the crank a little to line it back up and then go over the tensioner pulley. Doing it any other way will result in failure.

 

[andrewshowers]

DSM Graveyard 4g63 Timing Belt Tutorial - YouTube

 

[1Gina2G]

doing the timing right now, got the gear in the right place I think. Does this look ligned up?

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[snowborder714]

It looks to be, assuming the cam dowel pins are at 12 o'clock. The best way to check is to look straight on (not at the above angle your pics were taken from) and see if the cam gear marks line up with the valve cover to head flange behind it.

 

[1Gina2G]

Im sure the dowel pins were basically at 12, I read somewhere where that they're never going to really be at 12 exactly.

I have my head milled too so I think thats why my marks arent truely parallel anymore, counted the spaces between each cam timing mark and theres 25 total, all marks closest to the head as possible being in-line but above the top of the head.

Would the marks be truely parallel if the heads been milled?

 

[snowborder714]

Well, at 12 as opposed to 6 But I see after looking at your first pictures that do show the dowels is that they are at 12.

As for having the head milled, I think it might affect it based on how much material you've had taken off. I can't say 100% for sure that the marks will be in line or not as I think it will change on a case by case basis.

You should be able to count the number of teeth on the cam gear to also verify. See the picture in post 2 for more info.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...l-installing-timing-timing-belt-6bolt-2g.html

 

[Calan]

Are you spinning the motor over a few times and letting it rest for a while after the belt is tensioned?

How much of a gap do you have at the tension arm? Will the grenade pin slide in and out easily after that ^?

 

[snowborder714]

Has he even gotten the belt on and tensioned with the marks all lined up?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Looking at the tool, it looks like he is a tid-bit high. If you look at the tooth directly below where the marks are lined up - that looks dead on. I think you need to remove the timing tool and rotate the cams towards one another just a bit more until they fit into the next notch down on the timing tool.

Another good way to check is once you have the belt on and can pull the tool without the cams rotating, take a nail file or a narrow flat-edge and run it between the marks. If it lines up flush with the top of the head (where the valve cover meets the head) then you're fine. However, looking at this, and it may just be the angle of the picture, you're a little high on the timing and I'm fairly certain that's where a lot of your problem is.

Random Note : As long as you can get the timing belt over the cams with a few (4) zipties or bulldog clips at the top and the side of each cam, the belt will hold the cams in place. Mmm. Physics. I wouldn't trust zipties/bulldog clips located ONLY on the top of the cams. Just isn't enough resistance for my taste.

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There is your proper mark. You are half a tooth high on both cams my friend. The angle of the picture is a bit deceiving.

As for the milling of the head, I cannot speak on the difference in timing once you have the belt in place and rotate it before letting it sit to rotate again and check as what has been suggested. What I -can- say is that it does not change the relation of the cam timing marks on initial setup. Once you have those marks in line you should notice a very nice difference, if not dead on accuracy, once you get the belt back in place and check it again. If you feel you have removed a bit too much material without compromising the valve lips, use a slightly thicker HG. Several people have done this to accommodate for the loss of material. Judging by the amount you were off in the previous pictures, though - I doubt you removed enough material to cause that big of a difference. The misalignment of the cams is to blame for that.

 

[Lou98GSX]

i usually start at the crank and find a way so the belt doesn't pop off or move because you have to keep the belt tight as you go around to the pulley and then making sure the intake came is right on and now putting the belt on and keeping that from moving with a paper clamp and then going around to the exhaust cam and making sure that is on and keeping that from moving with another paper clamp and finally going around to the timing belt tensioner .

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

i usually start at the crank and find a way so the belt doesn't pop off or move because you have to keep the belt tight as you go around to the pulley and then making sure the intake came is right on and now putting the belt on and keeping that from moving with a paper clamp and then going around to the exhaust cam and making sure that is on and keeping that from moving with another paper clamp and finally going around to the timing belt tensioner .

I usually start with lining the cam gears, locking them in place, pulling the timing belt firmly over the cam gears, and then securing the belt. You can secure the crank in the right place and get everything lined up on the bottom end a lot easier this way - at least for me. Everyone has their own method. As long as it works I suppose.

Might want to tap that 'period' button on occasion. Lol. That run-on-post coupled with my migraine didn't make my day easier.

 

[snowborder714]

Ideally you want to work your way around clockwise, starting at the cam gears. This will leave the most slack around the tensioner pulley, where it will be taken up.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

We need a like/+1 button, Brian.

 

[pauleyman]

That tool has an orientation. I compared it with mine and yours appears to be upside down. that'll screw things up.

 

[snowborder714]

^Very good catch! That's really hard to tell just by looking at it, but now that I compare it to the pic on Jay's site, it's fairly obvious. OP, make sure to remark the center line and 'up' arrow.

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[1Gina2G]

Thanks for all the replys everyone, sorry about theweird angles but it's really hard for even me to see with the engine in the car. I've tried to get everything as strait as possible, and the dowel pins are basically at 12. I flipped the cam gear piece, I'm pretty sure it's exacrtly shown as the pic above.

Just wanted to see if this looks right before a get everything tightened down.

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[snowborder714]

I'd say it looks good. Put the belt on and count the teeth the same way as mentioned in the link I posted above.

 

[1Gina2G]

I've read the link a few times, I still don't understand what it means by the 39 teeth. It'd seem to me since there's 25 teeth between timing marks on each cam, that counting both top halfs would be 50.

After counting between the marks to 39, it ends up at the top half of the cam it looks like, can someone clarify why the 39 teeth are even counted?

 

[pauleyman]

That tool is dead on. It's right.

 

[snowborder714]

I've read the link a few times, I still don't understand what it means by the 39 teeth. It'd seem to me since there's 25 teeth between timing marks on each cam, that counting both top halfs would be 50.

After counting between the marks to 39, it ends up at the top half of the cam it looks like, can someone clarify why the 39 teeth are even counted?

In the pic, count the teeth on the exhaust cam from green line to green line, then switch over to the intake cam and go green line to green line.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I've read the link a few times, I still don't understand what it means by the 39 teeth. It'd seem to me since there's 25 teeth between timing marks on each cam, that counting both top halfs would be 50.

After counting between the marks to 39, it ends up at the top half of the cam it looks like, can someone clarify why the 39 teeth are even counted?

Don't worry about the teeth. You are dead on now. The positioning of the cam tool on your previous attempts is what was throwing you off so badly. With one tooth off it's easy to say what happened, but being half a tooth to a full tooth off on each cam gear, it will results in your above pictures.

Slap it together, tighten it all down, rotate it, wait 15 minutes, and do it again until everything lines up. (Remember it takes 5-6 rotations. I can't recall the exact number.)

You look golden now.

 

[1Gina2G]

Okay I'm having ALOT of trouble wih the crank sprocket now. The movement that happens while tigtening the belt with the special tool varies depending on where the sprocket is. It doesn't just keep moving 1 tooth off, or half a tooth off. Sometimes It doesnt hardly move at all, but the mark on the crank plate won''t stay perfect.

The closest I can get it, is a half tooth off from the plate. It actually looks like the actual tooth the mark represents is inline, but just not the plate itself. I checked the head and the number 1 is at TDC with the mark, is it because I'm putting the belt on without the spark plugs in?

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