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Head Gasket

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Hogwash, DSMers have been using copperspray for years. However it is a opinion and you know what they say about opinions... They are like assholes, everyone has one. IMO, if anything, the coppersray 'glues' the headgasket down... it is sticky! The thing about coppersray is if you a very slite inperfection in the suface (like a knick, not warpage) it can 'fill' it in... Either way, use the copper sray or dont. Make sure you head all the other warnings givin to you in this thread and you will be good.
 
Thats the VERY problem with copper spray! It GLUES the gasket in place. Head gaskets have to move because of the expansion and contraction of the head and block! Spray adhesives wont allow that and cause the gasket to fail. If you dont trust the company that makes the gasket to know any better when they tell you not to use any spray, then dont buy a gasket from them.
 
How much "filling in" do any of you honestly think that a spray gasket maker can do? If you have imperfections in the head/block surface a gasket spray that in fact does'nt ever even dry completely is'nt going to save your arse.
 
Well Im going to go with the one i ordered and just clean the surface the best I can and not use any copper spray and hopefullly it will seal well. Any other help is appreciated. Gasket should be here the 3rd so hopefully Ill have the head job done by the 5th or so.
 
jibberishballr said:
Well Im going to go with the one i ordered and just clean the surface the best I can and not use any copper spray and hopefullly it will seal well. Any other help is appreciated. Gasket should be here the 3rd so hopefully Ill have the head job done by the 5th or so.
Click to expand...

Why don't you just take it to machine shop and have them resurface it to the proper specs?
 
drivemusicnow said:
As long as you PROPERLY torque it down, there shouldn't be any problem with it. I would also use a little copper spray as well.

There is more to properly torqueing it down than just a torque value though.
Click to expand...

Do not use copper spray on a composite had gasket......

I use a Mtsu OEM with ARP'S a 80lbs running around 22lbs with no problems.

Before I have a Mitsu 4 layer with copper spray that blew at 25psi
 
jibberishballr said:
how much do you think that would cost me? What are the proper specs just out of curiousity?
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specs: Flat:thumb: It is just very important that there is no imperfections in the surface (these are thing you can not see). The only way to make sure of that is to have the head decked by a machine shop. This is a total guess but it may cost you $100. I have never had the head only decked, it is always along with other stuff so it ends up costing more.
 
The spec is 50 Ra or better. Ra is the specification for surface roughness. Find a machine shop that knows what Ra is and how to measure it, before you let them resurface your cylinder head. It shouldn't cost more then $50.
 
If you could shave off the head's lower surface it's Ra value is good enough.

I belive the biggest problem with copper spray is it's dring time. It's only like a few minutes and you have to clean it off and reapply. I quit using copper spray a while back. Now for just about All gaskets I use Mopar Gasket Sealer. Greatest thing I've ever used for gaskets. On MLS gaskets you have like a 1-2 hour work time before the sealer starts to dry. Every gasket I've ever put it on has not had a problem. Now I use my old copper spray to just give something a copper look.

Good luck with the MLS. I prefer the Mitsu MLS but I also have the cometic. Both are great.
 
GVR4592 said:
The spec is 50 Ra or better. Ra is the specification for surface roughness. Find a machine shop that knows what Ra is and how to measure it, before you let them resurface your cylinder head. It shouldn't cost more then $50.
Click to expand...


Quoted for truth

MB
 
Also I forgot to mention that I will not be using arp studs on this job due to lack of money :notgood:, So should i be alright with the stock ones not boosting over 20psi. Also should I use moly lube or whatever on them as a previous poster said.
 
Anybody? I will be putting it all together tomorrow so opinions are appreciated about my previous post. Sorry for the double post, I just need some input before tomorrow.
 
Stock head bolts will be fine for your goals, I've done it. Mitsu's head bolt torque specs are with motor oil on the threads, and CLEAN threads.
 
diambo4life said:
Metal HG to run 20psi....:rolleyes:

I must have been a god or something running 25-30psi on the stocker for years. :sosad:

Nothing wrong with using copper spray on the HG.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to have a stronger HG so I dont have to worry about blowing it. Im having a valve job done as well and the head resurfaced and then I will put the rest of the gaskets on and should have the car done by next Wednesday or so.
 
bullettdsm said:
Why do I always get here late? :p

Quoted again for truth.

MB
Click to expand...


Well I decided to buy once and never have to buy again getting the ARP headstuds and finally getting some new NGK sparkplugs. The head is in the shop and should be done Monday. Hopefully the headstuds are here by Tuesday and the car is completed by Wednesday. Thanks for all the help you guys. Ill update on how the car runs after Im finished.
 
dnhieu said:
i would NEVER use copper spray on the headgasket!!!!!! i have read that thread (as mentioned above) and using copper spray can cause the headgasket to actually move around in between the block and the head!!! not good if you ask me...
Click to expand...

Many, MANY fast dsm'ers have used copperspray on their setups with great success.
 
Street Surgeon said:
Many, MANY fast dsm'ers have used copperspray on their setups with great success.
Click to expand...

Which ones? Just wondering, cause I was there when Brent Rau changed his head gasket (he handed it to me to look at) and I know he did'nt use spray a gasket on it and he still runs a pretty good time without it.:dsm:
 
First, using Brent Rau as an example is not exactly a fair comparison.


Now, There is no definite right/wrong when it comes to this. TECHNICALLY you are not supposed to use copper spray on MLS gaskets. You should have the block and head machined to a proper finish (50 RA or smoother) and the gasket should be fine. Now, if you have some imperfections sometimes the copper spray can help.

Also, MLS gaskets are supposed to "move around" a little bit. This is why they are multi layer, as cast iron and aluminum expand at different rates. A composite gasket doesn't really let this happen.

I'm personally a little confused as some people say that the copper spray acts like a glue that holds the outer layers to their respective block/head surface. To me this is wierd because copper particulate is used as an abrasive lubricant for a lot of things. Basically it maintains a bit of "slipperiness" even at very high temperatures.

So in the end, install it however you feel comfortable, and if you don't know what to feel comfortable with, than machine both the head and block and use a dry MLS gasket with ARP hardware.
 
BISHILVR said:
Which ones? Just wondering, cause I was there when Brent Rau changed his head gasket (he handed it to me to look at) and I know he did'nt use spray a gasket on it and he still runs a pretty good time without it.:dsm:
Click to expand...

If you have access to the NABR tech archives I suggest looking in there :thumb: As for your Rau example, well his car and ours have very little in common other than the motor designation.
 
Street Surgeon said:
Many, MANY fast dsm'ers have used copperspray on their setups with great success.
Click to expand...

psh. i would still never use it. my friend seen on a video (building a 4g63 in less then 10mins) and he used that stuff on everything (headgasket, water pump, oil pump). so my friend did the same thing. well, to make a long story short he had to end up pulling the water pump, and oil pump and oil filter housing because they didnt seal...
 
Heh, well if your friend was using that "build your 4G63 in 10 minutes" video as an engine build guide he's probably going to have other problems as well. I copper coated my oil pump case gasket, water pump gasket, water neck gasket, head gasket, and oil pump and have no problems whatsoever. Now you pretty much can't scew up spraying on copper-coat, so I'd look elsewhere for the problem :cool:
 
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