Hate to ask but what happened here?

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Ok so last night, after hearing what sounded like a water pump bearing (new) or alternator bearing (also new), the car flung a belt and I took off the balancer (was at home luckily) and this is what I see. It lost power and barely ran but got it back up the driveway and onto a slab that I can work on it at. It is solid, but the timing belt is still on. It looks like the sprocket walked forward but I don't know why or how. Could I have sheared the keyway? The center ARP pulley bolt and the 4 ARP sprocket bolts were all tight but how can it come out like this? Did I forget something when assembling? Soooo....all of you give me your opinions so I have an idea how I goofed this up, thanks ahead of time. Stumped at the moment.
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[o0GuitarKid0o]

Is the key way In there maybe yours broke?

It looks like you have no tension on that belt but my eyes may be trickeing me

Did you hear a loud bang or anything ?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I cant see the keyway since the sprocket has walked out but I suspect the keyway. There is still normal tension on the timing belt, but I will get the cover off later today for more pictures and questions. The sprocket is tight on the crank at the moment but it has the belt tension on it. I hate to ask questions but I guess it's my turn....car would run but barely enough power to pull her onto the slab for work but no loud clacking, banging or such, just the sound of the alternator belt going bye bye just as I was coming down the road from the grocery store so I guess that makes it a grocery getter . Motor has right at 2000 miles on it.

The sound I was hearing that I thought was a bearing was the timing disk rattling.

 

[SonySlave]

Maybe a stupid question but was the huge washer behind the crank bolt still there? That, plus the crank bolt, is what keeps the crank sprocket from walking forward like that. I don't see the sprocket walking like that if the crank bolt was still tight and the washer was still there. I feel like if the keyway sheared it would only cause the crank sprocket to spin independently of the crank, or not at all.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I second your thoughts, and thanks for the input, it is all welcome to make this as painless (sigh) as possible. I WILL know more as soon as I get the cover off this afternoon. I did a BSE but believe I left the BS sprocket on the crank for the correct sprocket alignment. Its been almost a year since I put it together and just got it in the car a couple months ago so I will post more pictures as soon as possible. And I will look, it was dark last night but I believe the big APR washer was still there but if not that might explain something.

 

[Paul@RTM]

As SonySlave mentions, in those pics you provided, you're missing the crank bolt and washer. Did you remove them for the pic or were they not there before?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes I removed them, the balancer was walking out and threw the belt off the alternator so I removed the tire for inspection and checked the balancer, which was new also (but stock) for a better look see at everything. That is when I noticed how far out the crank sprocket was. It wasn't loose to the hand and all bolts were tight. I am sure I did something wrong in assembly and will be the first to put my head on the plate, but I am not sure what I did wrong as it isn't like rocket science but must have been something I did or didn't do. The car didn't like to start and run either but when it did it didn't make any weird noises (like valves crashing into pistons, etc), it was just hard to get to rev up enough to limp it to the concrete slab where I park and work on it at. No missing or anything but was low on power. I was so discusted that I just took enough apart to see what had happened, then went inside to watch my football team get there buts handed to them, reminding me of my night.

 

[motomattx]

Pretty much your crank bolt came loose, even though it probably seemed tight coming out the rest of the way.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I won't swear (but I did last night) about the bolt washer, but I put it on every other engine I build so I would have thought it to be normal. Now if I didn't, I am the biggest duma** around. I will look at it this afternoon. Do you think that the key is still in it, I mean it did start and run but not very powerful, hell I could have knocked a hole in the intercooler pipe or coupler from the belt coming off but it was dark and I was besides myself at that point. Thanks for the input everyone!!!

 

[steve]

Did you notice when you took the harmonic dampener off that it was stuck to the roll pin in the crank sprocket. That's usually how the crank sprocket slides out like this. You pull on the HD and the sprocket pulls out too.

The the HD is on the crank bolt keeps everything compressed against the step on the crank.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Damn marty have you called me my phone broke saturday, let me know what help i can be.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Hi Steve, yes it was kind of stuck to the sprocket. I had been hearing what sounded like a roller bearing going out and thought it was the new water pump or alternator but ended up being the timing disk rattling. I am HOPING that all is still in place and MAYBE I just forgot to put the washer on as I spent a lot of late nights putting it all together during the winter in the garage while I work during the day. Very frustrating but if it hasn't slipped away from the key, I think it will be ok. I am afraid to do a compression test until I make sure the sprocket is in the correct place and TIGHT. But....I always fear the worst. It is a DSM but I put it together so I take the blame, just getting everyone's thoughts on it. I will have the front cover off today so I can see more. Thanks for chiming in!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Hi Victor, you can catch a flight down here and get this thing lined out for me...... BUDDY!!!

 

[pauleyman]

Regardless of the cause I would check the timing marks

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes for sure Paul. I'm going to have the cover off anyway so it is on the top of the list and thank you for telling me to make sure! Much appreciated! I figured IF I had sheared a key AND the sprocket had moved a bit I will be able to tell when I check the timing, I must have timed that motor a dozen times while it was on the stand just checking it from time to time to make sure I had the tension correct at that time.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

If you sheared the key the car wouldn't run as the crank would just spin and the cams sit still. If It still runs then the key way is fine. It is not what holds the crank from moving forward. Back to the big crank bolt and washer. To remove the balancer you need only to remove the four small bolts around the crank bolt and then the HD can be removed. If the crankshaft bolt (not the four HD bolts) was installed and tight this could not physically happen save the threads were stripped or the bolt broke. Which I see no evidence of either happening. So do you specifically remember removing the large bolt which does not hold the balancer on? And if so why did you remove it since to remove the balancer you don't actually have to remove the crank bolt if you remove the front engine mount and lower the engine. Or did you remove it so you would not have to lower the engine to remove it?
All things aside if you have the crank bolt and washer there simply reinstall it with some loctite and it will push the sprocket back in place.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Also the car won't run correctly without a good alternator with a decently charged battery.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I wish I had clean hands to have taken more pictures. Center bolt and washer were there and tight but no 100 ft/lbs tight but tight to SOMETHING. The sprocket worked out about 3/4" AND moved on the crank about 10*. I had to use a pulley puller to get it off the very front of the key that was not sheared but somewhat mangled end. I put it back on the key and bolted it down as snug as possible with lockite. Retimed everything and reset ignition timing. I have compression of 200, 190, 200, 190. I don't have the waterpump pulley back on yet to test drive it but it starts and runs. Vacuum isn't as much now at 14 hg. Has a noticeably different idle but has always had my Kelford 264's in it with this motor. When I get the pulleys and belts back on I will road test but its a different sounding engine now. Never seen it happen before so I will keep a post up on how it is running now. Thanks to everyone for ideas and opinions and HELP which is the best thing about Tuners!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Oh man hope all gets better ill have my phone in a day or two and maybe we can resolve this issue.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks Vic, its a longgggggg story. I'm glad it runs but something is different. It has either hurt the motor in a slight way or it has always been this way since I got it started. Its all back together now except pulleys and belts so I will get that finished tonite and road test. Thanks for the support!!!