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1G Hate the 2600, Which Multi Disk Clutch ?

Posted by SasaniFab, Apr 7, 2017

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  1. gsxeclipse102

    gsxeclipse102 Proven Member

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    Problem with street disc is once it slips its game over. They cant take the heat like a puck.
     

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  2. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

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    Mendota, Illinois
    ^ I've not seen that in my experience. I had a setup that was no boost till 7000, and slip the hell out of it to get it launched on slicks. Held just fine at 130mph traps, it was a 2900 pp though.


    The 2600 and an act 6 puck clutch will hold enough for a 3300lb car to trap 140 in my experience I would expect the 2900 to get up in the 150's.
     

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    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  3. GST with PSI

    GST with PSI DSM Wiseman

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    FWIW, I run a sprung ACT 6 puck/2600 PP in the Galant. I've got dozens of passes on that thing. Holds like a champ, and is manageable in heavy traffic as well. The pedal is heavy, but you can't win em all...
     

    Street Build 23K  17  143

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
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    1982 Yamaha Virago
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    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    awd · manual · Galant VR-4
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  4. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

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    Surprise, Arizona
    The way my clutch is modded it actually increases pedal effort in a trade off for more clutch throw. But with a welded assembly, and brass bushings it's holding up fine to the 2900.
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  5. GST with PSI

    GST with PSI DSM Wiseman

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    San Diego, California
    I can't imagine a heavier pedal than what I already have. I know I'm getting old because the heavy pedal is my main complaint with the clutch ROFL
     

    Street Build 23K  17  143

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    12.030 @ 119.39 · Galant VR-4

    232  17

    1982 Yamaha Virago
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

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    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    awd · manual · Galant VR-4
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  6. Tiki2777

    Tiki2777 Proven Member

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    Omaha, Nebraska
    Couple notes about the PTT twin: they intentionally make the metal for the discs' hubs weaker than the input shaft splines to avoid damaging the input shaft. I haven't noticed any damage to my input shaft after just this recent transmission drop (at 6k miles on the clutch rebuild) from a failure of the TOB and this transmission has had the PTT on it before I got it for quite some time. The longevity of those discs depends on which ones you get (ceramic or cintered iron) and most importantly how you drive it. If you sit with your foot on the clutch a lot, slip it a bunch, or get it hot the life of the clutch discs significantly decreases.

    Now for shifiting....theres no comparison between a twin and even a puck clutch. I've experienced a spec sprung 6 puck, and now a 4 puck sprung disc from SBC. Night and day difference. You lose the drivability with the twin disk obviously but the shifting is incredible. If you want sprung hubs on a multi disk I know that HKS and OS Giken offer sprung hubs.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

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  7. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    From experience I'd rather push a single to the limits than pushing everyone into a twin disk. I have customers with over 700AWHP on a SBC single disk assembly with a clutch disk to match their driving style.

    In this case, I'd likely go with a SBC SS-X pressure plate and either a full ceramic disk (B-series disk), or a custom Feramic/Ceramic dual friction with Feramic on the pressure plate side and ceramic on the flywheel side; it is still a full face sprung hub disk and then remove the marcel for better disengagement.

    If you want to go twin, I'd go one of three directions;
    #1 - Quarter Master Gear Drive 7.25" 6-leg twin disk with my 1-piece street flywheel and a heavier clutch cover spring (typically a white spring is 2700-2900, I'd do like a 3700# spring to meet your power levels) and street friction disks. You would need an OEM TOB, TOB clip, proper length flywheel bolts (22.5mm for 6-bolt, 21.2mm for 7-bolt) and a Competition Clutch forged clutch fork (it is clearanced to fit the twin disk without grinding). No media blasting needed for the floaters unless you have zero break in time and need to race it right away; then yes, have the floaters and flywheel media blasted.

    #2 - OS Giken R2CD twin disk clutch - only for 7-bolt AWD applications; they do not have a 6-bolt flywheel available. Extremely streetable twin disk with nice big center hub that is sprung, very nice clutch. MT011-BH6 is the 7-bolt AWD part number.

    #3 - Quarter Master Gear Drive 7.25" 8-leg twin disk with NEW 1-piece street flywheel, heavier clutch cover spring (like I mentioned for #1), street disks, and then the same install components listed above are needed.


    The single disk is going to be the cheapest option, the Quarter Master 6-leg is your next lowest price option, then the Quarter Master 8-leg, then the OS Giken.

    If you need further information just let me know
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  8. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I used an ATS carbon/steel twin for 20k all street miles. lots of street race launches. no hwy. lots of shifting lots of boosting 450tq. removed and was shocked to find ZERO dust. I measured discs at just .002 wear per disc over when it went in. clutch is easy to drive. easy on drivetrain. would last forever if you dont drag race and abuse it. 7-bolt only but i think there were some 6 bolts made long ago. twin can easily be converted to triple. and its stunning clutch in triple form. the extra disc makes it drive smoother than stock. Have a friend who drove one the last time I installed one. he is gonna use one on his current 450whp build. he cant get out of his head how nice the clutch drove. they dont rattle as much as ceramics. the carbon discs do absorb quite a bit.
     

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    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
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  9. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Yes, I forgot about the ATS Jerry, yeah, that is the only drawback; the limitation of 7 bolt AWD only applications. Did you have the carbon ceramic dual friction or the full carbon/steel? Unfortunately price is also a factor in this clutch as an option for most people.

    RPS carbon twin would be another option, you would have to contact them - http://www.turboclutch.com/
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  10. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

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    The ATS is that nice Jerry? I was always under the assumption that carbon steel clutches sucked for power handling.
     

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    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  11. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I fell in love with the ATS carbon on steel. extremely well designed. stupid durable with a catch. they take a long, long , long time to break in. the carbon will look like a mirror when its broken in correctly. if pushed too early they can warp the steel plates. if that happens the warped plates will kill the carbon ones fast. I dont recommend the twin for drag. the triple could be awesome if its broken in correctly. honestly most who have purchased these on the evo forums killed them first night trying to drag race before they were broken in. they had a damaged rep that took ten years to over come. then the reports of high miles and virtually no wear started to pop up years later. now most reports you can find are just amazement of how nice the clutch is.

    I bought a twin used with 700 miles on it. it wasnt broken in yet. here are the pics of when it went in.
    100_1180.jpg
    100_1181.jpg
    100_1182.jpg
    100_1184.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

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  12. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    and this is what properly broken in plates look like after 20,000 hard city miles. clutch had ZERO dust on it. just shocking really. the only wear was just the break in wear.

    IMG_0351.jpg image upload no limit
    IMG_0352.jpg image upload no limit
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
    manual · 4G63t Swapped
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  13. 95REGF150

    95REGF150 Proven Member

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    That looks like a nice clutch and the idea of minimal wear using it on the street is awesome. However, like Tim said pricing on it at $2700 is definitely higher than the other twin disc options, even the OS Giken.

    ATS Clutch.png
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  14. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    wow those prices are way up from what they used to be.
    twins were 1900-2100
    triples around 2500-2700
    I used to cruise craigs list looking for broke ones. then make one out of multiples. only the fly and hub are car specific. everything else is universal.
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
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  15. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I just removed my other amazing clutch. it will be for sale.
    literally the best clutch on the planet is the tilton carbon/carbon. the majic that this clutch is difficult to describe.
    shifts at 9000 RPM like it does at 3000 RPM.
    custom heavy flywheel. assembly weighs 23.5 lbs. if you buy fly from tilton the assembly weighs 16lbs. HUGE mistake making AWD assembly that lite. AWD cars need flywheel weigh for solid low RPM launching.
    was also ordered with street friction. tested 925tq cold . hotter it gets the harder it grabs. most arent aware that the default friction is a race friction that wears out fast. the combo of street friction and heavy fly make this quite frankly the best performing clutch you can use on a 4g63. very easy 16lb pedal. smooth engaging. holds a tonne of power. long lasting. 7 Bolt Fly butI do have a heavy 6 bolt flywheel. but new owner would need to finish the conversion on it.
    this clutch has 15-20k on it. hundreds of launches. the friction material looks nothing short of fabulous. the two extra shims have not been used yet. its still on first shim. when clutch wears you simply ad next thicker shim and operation is restored. once you used third shim you can machine legs and start over. you can machine legs twice. this clutch has nine lives. its still on the first one.
    Tilton carbon/carbon
    IMG_0354.jpg pic host
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    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

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    1993
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  16. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Just go get your head caved in on an airplane and you'll be able to afford a $2700 clutch.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  17. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    God I love your one liners Vegas!!!
     

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  18. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    my comment to that would be you will never see the true performance this platform has to offer. good clutches are a clear unfair advantage over clutches not designed for the HP we play at. even more important they maintain driver enjoyment of the vehicle. I would never want to drive my car with a cheaper alternative that is harsh, noisy and just plain unreliable for any reasonable length of time. who likes to pull transmissions to replace a broken clutch?
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
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  19. miliman13

    miliman13 Proven Member

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    Im a bit late, But
    i have an XTD 6 puck Kevlar sprung, macthing P-plate.
    It feels very gentle and factory, feels like its a oem one.
    No issue with it, never slipped, then again i'm yet to get close to the levels others are at.
     

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  20. Detail

    Detail Supporting VIP

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    Marietta, Georgia
    I am EXTREMELY pleased with the southbend setup I got from Tim many moons ago. I've had probably 10 or 11 clutch setups (all single disk) in my 300k of driving my talon. This is the best I've had hands down. Easy on your left leg while still being simple to slip. I routinely drive it in Atlanta traffic with no problems.

    Dan
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  21. boost97gst

    boost97gst Proven Member

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    If your's is like mine, basically a toy that gets maybe 3,000 miles TOPS per year, then sure, go with a top notch twin disk.
    I can only vouch for one clutch: Comp stage 4. The PP is around 2800lbs. It held perfectly fine on my old setup. I was fwd,MT(obviously), fully built, e85, 33psi on a PTE 5558. Airflow was dead accurate and my max on that setup was about 52 to 53 lbs/min. That's a ton of power and torque. It held like a champ. Without a dyno i could safely estimate over 500whp. Torque? Idk, but a good amount i would assume.
    It's a brutal clutch though. VERY heavy. I put roughly 2500 miles on it before my big conversion to awd/AT. Thing is in mint condition
    Is it a "street" clutch? No. I mean it IS if you use it as a weekend cruise car and don't get in stop n go traffic. Your left leg will be worn out. I say this as a guy who's honestly in phenomenal shape, i'm plenty strong, but on a trip into st. louis during rush hr? Oy vey, my left quad was a bit sore the next day!

    Probably too much info, if so, i apologize, just trying to offer input on a single clutch that i have personal experience with.

    Good luck with your choice. It all depends on how much you drive the car really, and how much power you're talking about.
     
  22. boost97gst

    boost97gst Proven Member

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    Those are often overlooked. I've read TONS of good reviews. They got a bad name because you can buy em off ebay for less. Go figure.
     
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  23. Tigerinstincts

    Tigerinstincts Proven Member

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    Yeah I just installed mine at the end of February with maybe 1000 miles on it so far. Coming from a Exedy stage 3 clutch (3 puck) actually made me miss the heavy pedal pressure. Very chattery for the break in period but now it feels similar to the exedy. One thing I've noticed is the Exedy clutch literally would not slip no matter how long you cooked it. Launching was so cake with it when it was on. The XTD stage 4 is a lot easier to get to slip so trying to launch on it isn't as easy as I thought it would be. I'm on the unsprung version though but so far I'm not liking the clutch as much as I thought I would
     

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  24. miliman13

    miliman13 Proven Member

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    For fun i've tried, haven't slipped it yet.
    its the one part that gets reused over and over, 4 engines later and its still there.

    I've heard sprung and un are very different.
    most i've collected data on was 300+ on a dyno.
    But i'm confident it can handle more.


    Glad to here others use it.
     

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  25. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Here's pictures of the custom SS-X kit FE/B dual friction sprung-hub Feramic / Ceramic disk. This one is a bit more aggressive than a full-face B-series Ceramic disk made for handling abuse.

    The full face silver side is the FE-series Feramic material against the pressure plate side, and the 8 segmented pads is the B-series Ceramic material against the flywheel side.

    I had the disk made like this instead of having the Feramic material against the flywheel because the pressure plate friction surface is ductile iron while most peoples flywheels are chromoly steel. This gives a better cooling ability to the Feramic material with a lower likelyhood of friction welding the material to the friction surface. With Feramic on the flywheel side against a chromoly steel flywheel there is a higher likelyhood of friction welding the disk to the flywheel friction surface if it is overheated.

    Typically I would recommend the full Ceramic material disk to most customers trying to max out the clutch before going to a puck clutch, but this one is a bit higher capacity due to the friction coefficient of the Feramic material. With a SS-X pressure plate it should be able to handle around 700-750AWHP range before being exceeded. It would be a good low-10 second 1/4 mile street car looking for daily driver / racing abuse while shifting good at higher rpm. After this, I would recommend using a twin disk for running 9's and faster just for reliability. The drawback to most twin disks is the harshness, and the abuse it puts on the transmission synchro key ways and springs. Most twin disks have a tendency of mushrooming the key ways of the synchros or popping out the hub and slider springs causing shifting issues and damaged synchros over time.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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