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1G Hate the 2600, Which Multi Disk Clutch ?

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In this day and age, why would anybody buy a 2600 lb pressure plate (or similar) when you can have better performing clutch system with a stockish feel from Southbend? No affiliation here, just happy to be freed from the annoyance of a 2600 lb clutch fell.
 
How do they do it? You have to balance clamp load, pedal pressure and release travel. With our stock hydraulic system, the clamp load to pedal pressure ratio is fixed. So how do you get a high clamp pp with no pedal pressure?
 
How do they do it? You have to balance clamp load, pedal pressure and release travel. With our stock hydraulic system, the clamp load to pedal pressure ratio is fixed. So how do you get a high clamp pp with no pedal pressure?
The ratio of finger movement to plate movement. It's one of the reasons people with any clutch system issues can't get them to release.
 
I am running old school act 2600 with direct acting hydro bearing. The clutch is amazing. shifts at 9000. pulls front wheels nearly off the ground. drives like stock with 19lb pedal feel. no noise whatsoever. no annoyances whatsoever. the discs springs do loosen up before the friction material wears out. but I am okay with that. I have run more different clutches in a 4g63 than any five people on this board combined. in my opinion I am running the best clutch I can for 500wtq+. for me the secret is the act friction material and the hydro bearing. he is the only guy that loads a street friction with heavy braids of copper. makes for the best friction material for a fast street car. everything else i have tried has at least one major short coming and more likely two or three.

NOISY. short life. hella expensive. stiff pedal. on and off switch. chattery on take off. hard on drive train. poor high RPM shifting. etc. etc.

clutches are in short very give and take. there is no holy grail if you are looking for one. the more power you make the more sacrifices need to be made.
 
I am running old school act 2600 with direct acting hydro bearing. The clutch is amazing. shifts at 9000. pulls front wheels nearly off the ground. drives like stock with 19lb pedal feel. no noise whatsoever. no annoyances whatsoever. the discs springs do loosen up before the friction material wears out. but I am okay with that. I have run more different clutches in a 4g63 than any five people on this board combined. in my opinion I am running the best clutch I can for 500wtq+. for me the secret is the act friction material and the hydro bearing. he is the only guy that loads a street friction with heavy braids of copper. makes for the best friction material for a fast street car. everything else i have tried has at least one major short coming and more likely two or three.

NOISY. short life. hella expensive. stiff pedal. on and off switch. chattery on take off. hard on drive train. poor high RPM shifting. etc. etc.

clutches are in short very give and take. there is no holy grail if you are looking for one. the more power you make the more sacrifices need to be made.
I loved my 2600. I agree the act material works the best. I only went to a 2900 because the 2600 wouldn't hold the torque I was making. The 2900 does not work as well as the 2600. It took a complete overhaul of the stock hydraulic system to get it to work right.
 
the 2900 plate or even 3200 would work well with the hydro conversion. the hydro conversion is stark awesome. it eliminates a handful of friction points, and a couple of flex points. as a result you get a 20% reduction in pedal pressure and a 50% faster acting clutch. the faster action results in high TQ capacity. all win win win.
 
the 2900 plate or even 3200 would work well with the hydro conversion. the hydro conversion is stark awesome. it eliminates a handful of friction points, and a couple of flex points. as a result you get a 20% reduction in pedal pressure and a 50% faster acting clutch. the faster action results in high TQ capacity. all win win win.

What is a hydro conversion? I run a ACT 2600 if this reduces the pedal pressure that would be awesome.
 
unfortunately a custom conversion that no one offers. there is a thread on it in the drivetrain section. its for people with some fab skills

Fab skills? Check my build log/DSM profile. hahahaha. :D :sneaky:

Took some searchin last night but I found the hydro thread....strangely the tuners search wouldn't find any permutation of "hydraulic conversion" but a google search directed at the site popped it up.

Anyone else searchin here's z link : http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/hydraulic-release-bearing.369379/

Looked through it all and and cross ref'd the saab part number ( 8748667 for those interested ) and I am having a hard time understanding the 10/32 screws part. I can't quite tell what "plate" you attaching.
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@94awdcoupe What exactly are you using the screws to attach? From the pics I can't make out where the "plate" you refer to attaching.....

Can you elaborate abit more on the plate and screws? I got everything else covered but that plate has me scratchin my head....

Is the saab part kind of 2 pieced and your using the screws to hold it all together?

Also the 5.25" pedal travel part..... where did you pull that measurement from? I get what your measuring but where/who says it needs to be 5.25"? I'll be follwing what you laid out exactly...just curious why/who says it needs to be that?

Any info would be great. If you can help me a bit to complete the picture in my mind I'll be doing this mod when I pull my motor to rebuild in a week or so here and I'll do a tech article for it.
 
the original plate is lightly peened with alloy. you have to remove the plate to modify bearing (shorten pliot and remove oil seal) when bolted to saab trans the bearing stays together because the plate is sandwitched in place. the three bolt 1/4 plate was my first attempt to mimmick the saab trans. it didnt work. bearing leaked after about two weeks. the second working version has the 10 screws that hold the plate on. you will have to carefully drill and tap ten holes.
 
the original plate is lightly peened with alloy. you have to remove the plate to modify bearing (shorten pliot) when bolted to saab trans the bearing stays together because the plate is sandwitched in place. the three bolt 1/4 plate was my first attempt to mimmick the saab trans. it didnt work. bearing leaked after about two weeks. the second working version has the 10 screws that hold the plate on. you will have to carefully drill and tap ten holes.


OOOH!! I gotcha now. I was kinda thinkin (guessin) that cast piece was 2 piece and the screws held it together. Sweet man! Thank you.

I got one more question.....how are you attaching the assembly to the trans? What stops it from spinning on the input shaft? Not seeing how that is done from the pics.
 
I am using steel brake line for feed. it keeps it from spinning. also the welded on ring on face of bearing didnt work either. made the bearing too fat. as a result the bearing opens the fingers too fast. pedal travel becomes very short. so modifying the clevis eye position becomes important. that thread doesnt contain that info. let me see if I can find a detail on that.

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here is a pic of the modified pin location. I used brass to fill hole. then redrill to new position. the picture shows my current position that I use. the big brass on the left was the original factory position. the smaller brass on the right gave a tad too much travel.

so to elaborate. factory pedal travel is around 5.5 inches. measuring the rubber pedal travel.
if you install bearing and do nothing to modify travel the clutch actuates in about 4" of travel. (great for drag car)
the whole on the far right that was refilled gave me 6" of travel. (extremely pleasant daily but not sporty enough)
the final position gave me about 5.25 of travel. a tad shorter than factory.

i ideally the change here should be made at the clutch master. we have a 5/8 master. I tried to find something smaller in diameter but was unsuccessful. there are some larger cylinders but only thing I found smaller was from motorcycles. thought about sleeving to smaller size. but getting exact right size just sounds like a big head ache.

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@94awdcoupe THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. :D

That clears up soooooooooooo much.

So the pedal mod was to account for the "lip" you welded on hey....makes sense now.

Does that 5.25" include the "dead space" the pedal has before engaging? I dunno what the correct term is but there is that 1/2-1" of dead travel where it's not moving the clutch MC yet....is that in the 5.25" or is the 5.25" after the "dead space"?

Regarding the lip you welded on, I was wondering if the welds contacted the fingers on the PP at all and from the pics I can see wear marks on the welds. Do the welds kinda lightly "catch" on the fingers? I don't mean catch on them, but can you feel them "Clicking" or something on the fingers at the initial contact point when depressing the pedal?
 
there isnt much if any free travel. when there is 4" of travel. the pedal is literally 1.5 inch closer to floor. it doesnt return to 5.5 position.
the lip on bearing was not used. it made bearing too thick. I welded the lip because I thought it would actuate fingers better. mistu bearings are around 55mm. this bearing is around 70mm. the lip was literally cut off a mitsu bearing. it would have been the perfect diameter. the 70mm diameter contacts fingers closer to fulcrum point. ( faster action more pedal effort) thats why fingers snap open so quickly.

funny when I was doing this I had the bearing apart and the seal inside is huge. I was thinking this aint gonna work. the 5/8 cylinder isnt gonna move enough fluid. plus the fluid feed to this seal is real tiny. maybe .080. looking at it I just didnt think it was gonna travel far enough fast enough. boy was I wrong. it has tooo much travel.
 
there isnt much if any free travel. when there is 4" of travel. the pedal is literally 1.5 inch closer to floor. it doesnt return to 5.5 position.
the lip on bearing was not used. it made bearing too thick. I welded the lip because I thought it would actuate fingers better. mistu bearings are around 55mm. this bearing is around 70mm. the lip was literally cut off a mitsu bearing. it would have been the perfect diameter. the 70mm diameter contacts fingers closer to fulcrum point. ( faster action more pedal effort) thats why fingers snap open so quickly.

funny when I was doing this I had the bearing apart and the seal inside is huge. I was thinking this aint gonna work. the 5/8 cylinder isnt gonna move enough fluid. plus the fluid feed to this seal is real tiny. maybe .080. looking at it I just didnt think it was gonna travel far enough fast enough. boy was I wrong. it has tooo much travel.


So you didn't use the welded on mitsu lip in the end then?
 
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