Going back and forth on flares for my 1g

[Ludachris]

You guys have seen my threads about 1g flares. I've been talking about it for years and I keep deciding to scrap the idea and then I find something that makes me want to revisit the idea. The problem is that there aren't any solutions I've found that I like, and custom solutions are expensive and who knows how it will come out. But I keep coming back to the idea that I want the GSX to be something I push the limits with and make it something that is done well, not just cheap and DSMer-like. That's what keeps me coming back to the idea of flares.

I want flares that fit the car's body lines, like this:
GD: Just Images of Cars with Karlton's Flares - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com

I'm thinking I'll have to try and make them myself, unless I can find someone to make them for me. I just want it to look right.

And if it's going to be done right, I think I need to change my wheels for something wider, maybe something in the 18x10.5" range, as that size seems to be a popular choice for the Evo guys and some of the competitive DSMers. Figure tires would be something in the range of 285/30/18 r-compounds - something like RA1's that will have some good life. Since I'll be doing flares I won't be limited much by width. But I think I'd have to get the offset right to try and avoid wheel bearing issues. Maybe I should look up Collier's old wheel sizing again to see what he was running.

And with the flares, I'll likely be lowering the car once I figure out the best way to address the roll center. But it will be a little lower. That means I'll have to cut the fender sheet metal, which I'm not crazy about doing. But if the flares are done right it shouldn't matter.

Of course, the more I try to make this thing match my vision of my perfect 1g GSX in my head, the longer it takes me to get there due to the extra work and money required. At the end of the day, I don't really care, because half the fun for me has been, and always will be the journey in the build. I want to drive it badly, but I also want it to be done right, as I'm tired of driving it when it's only built halfway.

Wish I had some of you guys around me locally to come over and help wrench on this damn thing. It would make it more fun.

Here are some photos of the flares from the thread I linked to above that really make me want to get some made:

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[Ludachris]

What's the best way to go about designing flares like that? My first thought was to throw on some hobby foam blocks and start trimming/sanding, then use bondo. But how do you ensure both sides are uniform? Seems like it would have to be CAD designed. Trying to do it freehand would be way too tough, wouldn't you think?

How would you do this the right way?

 

[hhuricane]

Try this...http://www.milesspeed.com/media/phr/PHRP-091000-BODY.pdf
I've seen similar methods using fiberglass as well but it should give you a bit of an idea. arrowhead seems to be the local 'glass guy, he could probably give you some pointers.

 

[Nicklepage1010]

The ones i saw on the mini cooper down the road were made out of "Bushwhacker" flares for an s10, trimmed to fit.
Can anyone PS this up?

 

[kidtsi]

I would try to come up with something like this before march, my business partner is a custom body fabricator and have lots of knowledgeable when it comes to this.

What would be more ideal for this, fiberglass or urethane? 1.5 inches or 2?

 

[Ludachris]

I don't want to try and trim some flares to fit like we've seen done so far in the DSM world. I want flares that are made to fit the car. I want to compliment the body lines, the curves, etc. The rivets will be located in the right places. There may or may not be notches to incorporate the door trim, the fuel door, and it will be two piece in the front so that the part that covers the front bumper will be separate from the part that attaches to the rest of the fender.

Take a look at the photos I posted and you'll see that you really can't achieve that with bushwacker flares or universal flares. This isn't a generic thread about what flares will work. There are tons of those threads. This thread is about how to best fabricate a custom set of flares that are done right and fit my car.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I really like that alot..Whats the cost of all 4 I forgot to look?

 

[Ludachris]

I would try to come up with something like this before march, my business partner is a custom body fabricator and have lots of knowledgeable when it comes to this.

What would be more ideal for this, fiberglass or urethane? 1.5 inches or 2?

I'd prefer urethane but fiberglass would be good to if it's cheaper. Whatever fits best and still cost effective. I don't want carbon fiber simply because the weight savings will be minimal and the reality is, this is a track car and if I damage one I'd rather it be a fiberglass flare.

 

[Ludachris]

I really like that alot..Whats the cost of all 4 I forgot to look?

The cost for the flares I referenced really isn't relevant, since I have no idea how they're made and what it costs the guy to make them. Although, if you're thinking to use them as something to start with for R&D, they're too expensive for that - over $600 for a set (and that's the fiberglass) from what I read.

This thread is about me finding a way to make some flares like the ones I posted for my GSX. If others want to try and get some made too, great, if not, great. If I have to make them myself, I probably won't be making them for other people. If I find someone to make them for me you guys are welcome to get some made, but the design will be mine, not something we'll be voting on. That's not to say I won't be open to suggestions on the design.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Your other thread on the 2g flares I really didnt like.Cause they have cutouts for the bolts..It looked semi tacky.

These ones would be a cleaner look..If you find out who makes them and price let me know please?

Ive found a few universals, and they either look tacky or they want you to two sided tape put it on..Like NOOO thanks.

 

[kidtsi]

I'd prefer urethane but fiberglass would be good to if it's cheaper. I don't want carbon fiber simply because the weight savings will be minimal and the reality is, this is a track car and if I damage one I'd rather it be a fiberglass flare.

Have you considered the difference on side skirts in talon-eclipses-laser and year, the is to much variation, it might work like we discuss before cutting the door trim to make them fit but that might be a problem for the 93 talon guys, unless me we can make it work for all of them.

is there any difference in height where the early eclipse compared to early talon starts? Sorry i don't have a eclipse right now to compare it.

 

[Bud92gsx]

What about getting one of our freelancers to make some..Maybe that would help, especialy if we get a GB going.We can get them for cheaper going that route.

 

[Ludachris]

Have you considered the difference on side skirts in talon-eclipses-laser and year, the is to much variation, it might work like we discuss before cutting the door trim to make them fit but that might be a problem for the 93 talon guys, unless me we can make it work for all of them.

is there any difference in height where the early eclipse compared to early talon starts? Sorry i don't have a eclipse right now to compare it.

For 90-91, the Eclipse and Talon are a little different on the rocker panels, but it's minimal - the Talon has taller rocker trim. If anything, it would be made so that they are cut to fit for the Talon. I will be using Talon rockers on my car. The rocker trim is a bit different on the 1gb so the attachment curvature would be slightly different, but it might be possible to make them fit both the 1ga and 1gb without looking like crap. The front bumper caps would have to be different, but that might be the only thing that has to be specified if they were to be designed for both.

 

[kidtsi]

For 90-91, the Eclipse and Talon are a little different on the rocker panels, but it's minimal - the Talon has taller rocker trim. If anything, it would be made so that they are cut to fit for the Talon. I will be using Talon rockers on my car. The rocker trim is a bit different on the 1gb so the attachment curvature would be slightly different, but it might be possible to make them fit both the 1ga and 1gb without looking like crap. The front bumper caps would have to be different, but that might be the only thing that has to be specified if they were to be designed for both.

I was planing to do this and this, so when i put fender flares on, i wont go from wide to thin and make the car look fuggly, in other words to make the flares flow better as this make it appear a little wider, hopefully you know what i mean.


or even start the flare from there, just mounted everything real kick to show what i mean.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Anyone ever tried pulling the rear quarters off and making a rear wide body.With some welding and some additional metal?

 

[yhype]

I would think it's easier to pie cut the quarter panels and create your own custom flares...would imagine any good bodyman would be able to do this and still keep the attachment points for factory stuff.

 

[Spyder FX]

The issue with the pie cut flares is that the top of the flare will end up being very pronounced and will taper into the stock body lines. Essentially allowing a good portion of the tire to be sticking out, with just the top being covered up. The original idea with a custom fitting flare is to give it the complete look like that Subie has.

 

[2gSpyder4g64]

well im studing Industrial/automotive design and a technique we use is use cad
to get everything symetrical. ( its on the last step).

to make a good quallity piece you need to follow a few steps and not just jump in.

gonna use a few pics step by step from a past project we did in class ( if you want you can remove the pics if its too much )
(scroll down the box to see more steps used "code" so i dont mess the whole trheas with so much pics)

1.
we start drawing what we want, and keep evoling it untill we have something we like.
[IMG]http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/287919_101725803264500_2185847_o.jpg[/IMG]

2. (not applys for this case but its a cool step)
we determine the proportions and "packagin". and make sure it looks good on paper.
[IMG]http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/288099_102126656557748_4840511_o.jpg[/IMG]

3.
a mock up or dummy is the best way to see the real proportions with your eyes and let you see whats wrong.
[IMG]http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/286375_102132096557204_5233868_o.jpg[/IMG]

4.
We jump to CAD in this case rhino, but evrything works ( blender, 3ds max maya, autocad,solid, sketch uo, etc...).
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/290524_101735109930236_3685777_o.jpg[/IMG]

5. [B]Building the model[/B]
We used the cad file to cut sections of the model, we used a cnc router and mdf.
[IMG]http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/288871_101739023263178_7336217_o.jpg[/IMG]

Then used "florist foam" to fill all the spots and made a big block.
[IMG]http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/288871_101739033263177_541342_o.jpg[/IMG]

then you just cut to shape and add" bondo" ( we used dupont and 3M not bondo it works better).
[IMG]http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/290443_102072426563171_7575986_o.jpg[/IMG]

The you just have to sand and fill over and over untill you get a smooth even finish.
[IMG]http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/290443_102072433229837_3548094_o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/287724_102110733226007_5841394_o.jpg[/IMG]

and the finished product 
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/289811_102119796558434_1650257_o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/287724_102110736559340_3855589_o.jpg[/IMG]

If you saw the whole thing you'll see it takes time to get things done good but it pays....

if you want help on the cad i can give you a few tips and point you on the right direction, i would like to help in a more direct way but im too bussy with college

 

[dsmspickdad]

Have you look into to the fender flares that come from the Philippines? They are universal but don't look to bad. There is a 1g from Tulsa that has them installed. They are not made of fiberglass, I think they are made from abs plastic. I struggle with your same issues. If you haven't let me know and I can forward a link to you.

 

[lowell]

How about something that's also aerodynamically functional?

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[Bud92gsx]

Have you look into to the fender flares that come from the Philippines? They are universal but don't look to bad. There is a 1g from Tulsa that has them installed. They are not made of fiberglass, I think they are made from abs plastic. I struggle with your same issues. If you haven't let me know and I can forward a link to you.

Linky!!!

 

[Bud92gsx]

How about something that's also aerodynamically functional?

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Thats a widebody kit, not straight up fender flares..There is a difference,, and thats also a porsche..

 

[Tyeler18]

The way I'm seeing it with most of the flares (at least I think) is that they have cut-offs behind* the tire, where the flare essentially drops off into the fender. I'd assume this is to create a low pressure zone to help pull brake heat away? (correct me if I'm wrong)

If you're going with a similliar look this could actually be pretty easy on the door side which could require little to no end cap modification depending on where you put the fender cut-off. That means you'd only need a 2 piece flare- 1 piece on the bumper, 1 piece on the fender itself. One thing which may end up being easier is rather than having the flares built into the factory fenders, having a fiber/urethane/steel fender built with the flare built in may be easier. You'd need a mold made, but that means that if you could get a company to mold them, they could make them quicker/easier which would lower cost. From a production stand-point rather than a custom stand-point.

The rear I'm still processing a way to make them nicely without hacking into the panels.

Opinions?

 

[Ludachris]

So this is turning into a discussion about flares in general and that's not what I was after. I want this to be a discussion on the best way to design and build a set of custom flares made for my car. I don't want anything universal. I've seen them done and I don't want that. I want to find out the best and most efficient way to make flares for my car so that they look like the flares on the Subarus I posted above - in terms of fitment and styling.

lowell, I would consider functional aero flares but the goal is more to make them look like they could have come from the factory and make it look more like a street car. It would be nice to have them be functional, but I don't know that I'm going to go the full distance with aero with this car so it would be a waste of time to do all the R&D to make the flares functional and not everything else. So basically, no, I'd just prefer to have some flares that fit the car very similar to the way the Subie ones do in the photos I posted. What I'll lack in aero I'll make up for with contact patch and suspension work.

Another issue with the OEM design of the car is that the wheel openings are more oval than circular, which I think doesn't look as good. Part of what makes the Subies above look so good with those flares is that the wheel gap is consistent for the most part, all around the tire. Not sure the best way to fix that on the DSM. Solving that with a flare likely wouldn't look good. You'd almost have to solve it with the rockers and the bumper covers - maybe creating some add on pieces that extend them into the wheel opening.

 

[Ludachris]

I was planing to do this and this, so when i put fender flares on, i wont go from wide to thin and make the car look fuggly, in other words to make the flares flow better as this make it appear a little wider, hopefully you know what i mean.


or even start the flare from there, just mounted everything real kick to show what i mean.

I see what you mean Kevin... I've been thinking about it - I think the best option would be to just design it for the 1ga since it would require deeper ridges in the body lines, which can then be trimmed down to fit the 1gb Talon. Make a diagram so the user can cut it to fit.

I think trying to pull that rocker panel trim out like you're attempting to do might not look right either, but I see what you're after. I think the best bet will be to just run a full flare down to the lower rocker and make it thinner as you go down, just like the Subie ones above. Just about every flare or wide body set up I've seen that looks right to me is done this way.

You see, this is the problem I'm having trying to come up with a way to make one flare setup that works for all 1g body styles in order to make a good business case for it. Too tough to do without making too many concessions on what I'm trying to accomplish. It's almost as if I'll have to make my own. Thanks 2gSpyder4g64, I'll have to read through your tips. I really wish I had more access to build stuff using CAD and milling tools, etc.