FP Green install, Zero Boost

[gsxjoe]

I have an issue that I believe I have figured out, but would like to ask for some opinions on the matter.

I just got finished up this past week installing an FP Green and manifold along with a Punishment recirculated O2 housing. After I got everything installed and primed the turbo with oil(cranking it with injectors unplugged) I attempted to go for a drive. I started off smooth, then tried to give it some gas and nothing, won't even go above 0, vacuum reads good around 15hg. Oh, I did burp my cooling system, and replace all the fluids and plugs.

According to my logger I am showing 0 to -2 timing, which really should not effect boost at all, I did a boost leak test, was good there and finally came to the forums and did a search on "new turbos, no boost" and a lot of the issued seemed to be wastegate related. I checked the wastegate and all the fittings are correct and the hoses are tight. Doesn't the turbo need a wastegate in order to build some boost?

I am really curious to see if this is the problem or not, if anybody has any other ideas as to what it is, please let me know.


I am pulling oil from filter housing and installed all new water lines for the turbo as well as the big blue FP dump tube, MTX-L wideband and new boost gauge.

Thanks in advance!


Edit* Seeing as how a lot of people only read the first couple posts, I removed the bad information regarding my issue. *

 

[agentorange313]

I have an issue that I believe I have figured out, but would like to ask for some opinions on the matter.

I just got finished up this past week installing an FP Green and manifold along with a Punishment recirculated O2 housing. When I ordered the turbo I did select the "Wastegate" on O2 option. After I got everything installed and primed the turbo with oil(cranking it with injectors unplugged) I attempted to go for a drive. I started off smooth, then tried to give it some gas and nothing, won't even go above 0, vacuum reads good around 15hg. Oh, I did burp my cooling system, and replace all the fluids and plugs.

According to my logger I am showing 0 to -2 timing, which really should not effect boost at all, I did a boost leak test, was good there and finally came to the forums and did a search on "new turbos, no boost" and a lot of the issued seemed to be wastegate related. I checked the wastegate and all the fittings are correct and the hoses are tight but when I pulled the housing I noticed that the flapper door for the internal gate was welded shut. Doesn't the turbo need a wastegate in order to build some boost?

I am really curious to see if this is the problem or not, if anybody has any other ideas as to what it is, please let me know.


I am pulling oil from filter housing and installed all new water lines for the turbo as well as the big blue FP dump tube, MTX-L wideband and new boost gauge.

Thanks in advance!

I looked at you profile and there is nothing about aftermarket cams in your car. I would think that 15 hg of vacuum is way off. Normally out cars have anywhere from 18-22 hg of vacuum with stock cams. Poor vacuum is a sign of engine failure.

If the flapper door of the turbo was welded shut then the turbo is designed to run a wastegate off the manifold, pre turbine housing. Since you have a o2 housing wastegate that flapper hole should be open, and even ported if you feel so. I think they sent you the wrong version of the FP green. Even if the flapper door was welded shut, you should be creating positive pressure with the turbo.

I would take off the o2 housing, determine what psi spring in within the wastegate, get a air compressor that can set to a set psi and see when the wastegate opens. The spring might be malfunctioning or lost its tension and is opening at any positive pressure. There have been several thread on TiAL spring failure:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/414314-again-wtf.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/369063-tial-wastegate-install-no-idle.html

Also, how do you have your vacuum lines set up in your system?

 

[gsxjoe]

The wastegate is set up for 18.85 psi/ 1.3 bar and I am set at 20 lbs of boost. the vacuum lines are set up with the wastegate going to the mbc then from there it goes on over to a T that splits down to the BOV and from there its up to the intake manifold. I am tapping my boost gauge from the FPR vaccuum. I have replaced a majority of the vacuum hoses as well.



I might have to check my piping again and see if I didn't leave a mysterious rag stuff somewhere it shouldn't be like another user on these forums, .



Here is a pic of my set up, before I tightened and secured everything down, at least the turbo and manifold/bits.

I do have the vacuum on the wastegate correct?

It's too dark outside to really take a good pic of the vacuum lines and the 15hg of vacuum fluctuates between 15 and 20. Cams I have installed are 272's

 

[mike96]

I checked the wastegate and all the fittings are correct and the hoses are tight but when I pulled the housing I noticed that the flapper door for the internal gate was welded shut. Doesn't the turbo need a wastegate in order to build some boost?

I am not too sure as to why you aren’t building boost (I am currently fighting a similar issue only I am getting 5psi) but if the internal waist gate is welded shut then you are going to over boost to the moon with that setup you have now. You need to have the internal waist gate cut loose and have it welded open or have it removed. With it welded shut you have no way for exhaust to get to the external waist gate you have on there now so nothing will stop your turbo from making boost.

 

[agentorange313]

The wastegate is set up for 18.85 psi/ 1.3 bar and I am set at 20 lbs of boost. the vacuum lines are set up with the wastegate going to the mbc then from there it goes on over to a T that splits down to the BOV and from there its up to the intake manifold. I am tapping my boost gauge from the FPR vaccuum. I have replaced a majority of the vacuum hoses as well.



I might have to check my piping again and see if I didn't leave a mysterious rag stuff somewhere it shouldn't be like another user on these forums, .



Here is a pic of my set up, before I tightened and secured everything down, at least the turbo and manifold/bits.

I do have the vacuum on the wastegate correct?

It's too dark outside to really take a good pic of the vacuum lines and the 15hg of vacuum fluctuates between 15 and 20. Cams I have installed are 272's

What is going on right here, circle in the picture. FP made a boost reference source on the housing. That line should go directly to the wastegate. It looks like in the picture that its left open, or not plugged. Your BOV should have a dedicated vacuum line from the manifold.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Pre-turbo exhaust leaks? Either way you have something not right with your vacuum, its not reading right at all for those cams.

 

[gsxjoe]

What is going on right here, circle in the picture. FP made a boost reference source on the housing. That line should go directly to the wastegate. It looks like in the picture that its left open, or not plugged. Your BOV should have a dedicated vacuum line from the manifold.

Maybe I'm an idiot but from the 20g I had prior, there was a loopback in the same place and the wastegate was routed to the mbc.

Here's a fairly crude pic of the way the lines are run. If there are any suggestions as to a new way to route I'm all for it. This is the way it was ran when I bought the car and it worked then.

 

[4Lurker4]

Your turbo nipple should definitely be connected : http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...install-factory-turbo-1-07-ss-mbc-diagram.jpg

I grabbed a quick pic to show you, it should be connected to the MBC and into the wastegate (in your case the external one)

Edit: Disregard, missed you had the wastegate hole welded shut, this won't work until you get that fixed first. The flow is bypassing the wastegate completely you won't have control over the boost.

 

[gsxjoe]

Your turbo nipple should definitely be connected : http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...install-factory-turbo-1-07-ss-mbc-diagram.jpg

I grabbed a quick pic to show you, it should be connected to the MBC and into the wastegate (in your case the external one)

Okay, so it should be from the intake manifold straight to the BOV, the a loop between the turbo-MBC-WG. I'll give that a try and see if my vacuum improves.

 

[4Lurker4]

Okay, so it should be from the intake manifold straight to the BOV, the a loop between the turbo-MBC-WG. I'll give that a try and see if my vacuum improves.

Yuppers

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Even if you fix the vacuum house routing problem you will have NO CONTROL of the boost with the wastegate flapper welded shut. You should just pull the turbo off the car and deal with that issue before you go any further. Otherwise, be ready to hit 35+psi when you go WOT.

 

[4Lurker4]

Even if you fix the vacuum house routing problem you will have NO CONTROL of the boost with the wastegate flapper welded shut. You should just pull the turbo off the car and deal with that issue before you go any further. Otherwise, be ready to hit 35+psi when you go WOT.

I just read that in his description, disregard what I said before, you have the wrong turbine housing (i.e. the wastegate flapper that you have welded shut should be open all the time to work my way, or else there is no flow being gauged by the external wastegate). You either need a to open up the wastegate flapper (Drill it) or get an exhaust manifold that has the external wastegate fitting before the turbo if you want to use that particular turbine housing.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

^ Your hose routing is still good advise and he should take it... bov needs dedicated line from intake manifold. Compressor housing fitting runs to mbc, mbc then runs to bottom fitting on the wastegate and the top fitting gets vented to atmosphere. That is the proper routing, but he's gotta get exhaust flow to the wastegate before driving his car or else he'll probably blow the head gasket or do even worse damage to his motor.

OP, you need to check your invoice from FP and see if they made a mistake on the turbine housing. If they did, send it back to them and have them send you the right housing. If you made the mistake when ordering, you can ask them if they'll help you out. If they won't, be preparred to pay a machine shop $70-100to fix the turbine housing.

 

[4Lurker4]

^ Your hose routing is still good advise and he should take it... bov needs dedicated line from intake manifold. Compressor housing fitting runs to mbc, mbc then runs to bottom fitting on the wastegate and the top fitting gets vented to atmosphere. That is the proper routing, but he's gotta get exhaust flow to the wastegate before driving his car or else he'll probably blow the head gasket or do even worse damage to his motor.

Yeah I know, just don't want him to boost without control and damage anything (as you said, he won't be able to control boost and it'll spike). He needs to fix the wastegate flapper before taking my advice; just wanted to make sure he knew that before doing anything else. Thanks though.

 

[kchaazz]

^^^ While the hose on the compressor cover definitely needs to be hooked to the wastegate, I believe the no boost situation is perhaps being caused by incorrect installation of the seat for the wastegate, which goes into the flange that the gate is mounted to- the horizontal flange, specifically. Without the seat, the exhaust will bypass the gate and your turbo will not spool. Remove the gate and verify the presence of the seat??

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

^ How would the seat matter if the passage to the wastegate is welded shut

 

[DSM Chase]

I am not too sure as to why you aren't building boost (I am currently fighting a similar issue only I am getting 5psi) but if the internal waist gate is welded shut then you are going to over boost to the moon with that setup you have now. You need to have the internal waist gate cut loose and have it welded open or have it removed. With it welded shut you have no way for exhaust to get to the external waist gate you have on there now so nothing will stop your turbo from making boost.

I am almost positive i know your problem, My dads 90GSX would not build over 5psi of boost, took us 3 months to figure it out.

CHECK YOUR EXHAUST FLEX PIPE it will collapse inside to a hole about the size of a quarter, even if it looks good on the outside, drop your exhaust from the manifold and look into it with a flash light.

 

[mike96]

^^^ While the hose on the compressor cover definitely needs to be hooked to the wastegate, I believe the no boost situation is perhaps being caused by incorrect installation of the seat for the wastegate, which goes into the flange that the gate is mounted to- the horizontal flange, specifically. Without the seat, the exhaust will bypass the gate and your turbo will not spool. Remove the gate and verify the presence of the seat??

I highly doubt that is the no boost issue in this case. As it sits the internal waist gate on the turbine housing is welded shut that said there should be no " pre turbine" exhaust pressure getting to the waist gate what so ever. The only exhaust that would leak from the waist gate seal if it is installed incorrectly would be back pressure exhaust after it has been threw the turbine section of the turbo. If it is an exhaust leak that is causing the issue it would only be either the manifold to head flange gasket or the turbo to manifold gasket. Chances are it is probably something else.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I am almost positive i know your problem, My dads 90GSX would not build over 5psi of boost, took us 3 months to figure it out.

CHECK YOUR EXHAUST FLEX PIPE it will collapse inside to a hole about the size of a quarter, even if it looks good on the outside, drop your exhaust from the manifold and look into it with a flash light.

I do remember some people having this issue with certain cheapo flex sections!

 

[mike96]

I am almost positive i know your problem, My dads 90GSX would not build over 5psi of boost, took us 3 months to figure it out.

CHECK YOUR EXHAUST FLEX PIPE it will collapse inside to a hole about the size of a quarter, even if it looks good on the outside, drop your exhaust from the manifold and look into it with a flash light.

That it very well could be. now that I think about it that may be similar to the issue am having only I don't think it is the flex pipe that is giving me issues its brand new and not one of those mesh internal type, I think my issue is the cat... I never got into boost before I had it emissioned but I had to have a cat installed to get it to pass.. That is the only change I made on my car sense the last time I had it running and now I am having boost issues... I will have to look into that... Thanks. See sometimes by helping others you help your self.

 

[DSM Chase]

Im Positive thats the problem, My dad Put a cheap autozone flex pipe on ours and it lasted 4 days thats why we couldnt ever figure it out because on the outside it looks fine but the inside collapses causing the car to boost 5psi.

This is exactly what it will look like.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

spray painted white so you can see, thats supposed to be 2inches Its the size of a Quarter haha.

 

[Ethand14]

When I put my green on I could not boost past 12 because my Megan downpipe's flex section collapsed. I'm not sure if that's the problem here though. I'd imagine he could at least boost a little. Take your downpipe off and go for a quick drive but make sure you watch your boost gauge closely because your wastegate has no control of how much boost to run because of the welded wastegate passage. That will rule of a restrictive exhaust if there's still no boost.

 

[pj91gsx]

Mike 5psi sounds like you have poor oiling or your turbo is out of balance.

 

[kchaazz]

^ How would the seat matter if the passage to the wastegate is welded shut

Hmm.. I wasnt aware that the internal wastegate passage was welded shut. I was under the impression that the OP ordered the turbo in "wastegate on O2" configuration.

Im Positive thats the problem, My dad Put a cheap autozone flex pipe on ours and it lasted 4 days thats why we couldnt ever figure it out because on the outside it looks fine but the inside collapses causing the car to boost 5psi.

This is exactly what it will look like.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

spray painted white so you can see, thats supposed to be 2inches Its the size of a Quarter haha.

Holy crap!!! I deal with that stuff every day, exept we actually make flexible SS metal hoses out of the stuff for NO2 and chemical companies. The braid is supposed to be pulled tightly over the corrugated core, cut to the same length as the core, then a band is placed over the core and braid at the ends and crimped tightly to both, then the band, core and braid are tig welded together at the ends before the fittings(or, in this case, exhaust pipe) is welded to the flex. Looks like they didnt weld the braid to the core and band very well

 

[DSM Chase]

well i guess thats what you get with a 20$ 2.5IN flex Pipe section haha
If you are shure its not your flex section and you think its your cat just drop your whole downpipe and run it and see if it boost.