FP Green install, Zero Boost

[gsxjoe]

I have an issue that I believe I have figured out, but would like to ask for some opinions on the matter.

I just got finished up this past week installing an FP Green and manifold along with a Punishment recirculated O2 housing. After I got everything installed and primed the turbo with oil(cranking it with injectors unplugged) I attempted to go for a drive. I started off smooth, then tried to give it some gas and nothing, won't even go above 0, vacuum reads good around 15hg. Oh, I did burp my cooling system, and replace all the fluids and plugs.

According to my logger I am showing 0 to -2 timing, which really should not effect boost at all, I did a boost leak test, was good there and finally came to the forums and did a search on "new turbos, no boost" and a lot of the issued seemed to be wastegate related. I checked the wastegate and all the fittings are correct and the hoses are tight. Doesn't the turbo need a wastegate in order to build some boost?

I am really curious to see if this is the problem or not, if anybody has any other ideas as to what it is, please let me know.


I am pulling oil from filter housing and installed all new water lines for the turbo as well as the big blue FP dump tube, MTX-L wideband and new boost gauge.

Thanks in advance!


Edit* Seeing as how a lot of people only read the first couple posts, I removed the bad information regarding my issue. *

 

[gsxjoe]

In regards to Gofers diagram, that is the way my vacuum lines are hooked up at the moment, well after I changed the wastegate routing. The BOV is currently hooked to it's own source, right below where the diagram shows, up and to the right of the PCV valve.

I performed another boost leak test and found a leak at one of the T-clamps that was not present when I did my first one. I must have puckered one up when I checked all my piping, I picked up another and pepboys and performed another test and everything was kosher.

Not being able to push in my wastegate valve by hand does bother me though. I wonder if there is a screw that is holding it shut or something that's from the factory for ease of installation. There are two tiny allen screws on the bottom that don't look like they serve any function but I don't want to mess with it.

I took it for a spin and it's still like I'm driving an NA car. I'll post some pics in the morning of my bov and the vac lines. If anybody else whats pics of whatever let me know. I also plan on removing my exhaust again and inspecting the downpipe once more.



On another note, could messed up fuel trims cause my car to pull timing excessively? I set the timing yesterday and the light looks good. Idles good, just the vacuum is crap and my logger is showing -5 timing. I just hope my ecu isn't going out.

 

[bryanwheat]

No, there isn't any screw holding the wastegate in place. You do have the fire ring in there right?

 

[pj91gsx]

PJ, thats some out of the box thinking, I never considered that as a possibility. So what you found in your friends car was that low oil pressure created friction in the CHRA and the turbo wouldn't build more than 5psi? What was the condition of the turbo?

I rebuilt the turbo, put it on my car, ran great, took it off put it on his only 5 psi, spun a rod bearing after 4 miles. literally spun the bearing when idling in the driveway.

Ya buddy, this is getting way more complicated that it should be, I know it has to be an easy fix, maybe something I overlooked or did not do correctly. Oh, yea, the wastegate is getting nice and hot like the manifold and turbo like it should.



Now that you mention it, is there a way for me to check to see if the balance shafts have been removed? Without taking the timing cover off to expose everything? If there was some sort of friction cause my turbo to not spin fast enough, what else could it be? I took off my intake yesterday and the wheel was spinning nicely with the car running and off.

It not that it had the balance shafts removed, but that they were removed incorrectly. you can check by seeing if you balance shaft belt is still there under the timing cover.

 

[gofer]

Check mechanical timing too.

 

[banishedmunk]

On another note, could messed up fuel trims cause my car to pull timing excessively? I set the timing yesterday and the light looks good. Idles good, just the vacuum is crap and my logger is showing -5 timing. I just hope my ecu isn't going out.

Are you using a timing light or the logger to test your ignition timing? Use a timing light, as when you ground out the timing connector it prevents the ecu from making any timing corrections. So the logger would show -5 as that is what the ecu is expecting to see. Now wether the timing is at 5* BTDC is another story.

Get a timing light, ground the timing and see exactly what it is against the crank.

Just to bring this back up

remove the vacuum lines from the WG and plug the source with a bolt and take it for a spin and see if it hits boost....

Have you attempted to disconnect the wastegate line completely, just to rule out a wastegate issue? If not try to disconnect the boost reference from the wastegate. Then go for a drive CAUTIOUSLY as you will have no boost control what-so-ever.

 

[gsxjoe]

Are you using a timing light or the logger to test your ignition timing? Use a timing light, as when you ground out the timing connector it prevents the ecu from making any timing corrections. So the logger would show -5 as that is what the ecu is expecting to see. Now wether the timing is at 5* BTDC is another story.

Get a timing light, ground the timing and see exactly what it is against the crank.

Just to bring this back up


Have you attempted to disconnect the wastegate line completely, just to rule out a wastegate issue? If not try to disconnect the boost reference from the wastegate. Then go for a drive CAUTIOUSLY as you will have no boost control what-so-ever.

I did ground the connector when I checked my timing, I had my timing light set up to 5degrees. I shall recheck it again, here in a bit. Cam notches are lined up and the crank notch is on the T.

And I must have missed the "plug the wastegate line with a bolt" try. The only thing I did was remove the MBC from the line, going from wastegate to turbo. The wastegate does have its valve seat and as I mentioned before I cannot for the life of me push the valve in or get it to move. I might have to take it apart after I try these other fixes.

I have only been trying to build boost in 1st or 2nd gear, if I can get at least 1+psi then I'm making some progress.


Thanks for all the suggestions on things to try so far. Time to grab my cup of coffee and get my butt to work.

I will get some boost today!

 

[kchaazz]

Are you using a timing light or the logger to test your ignition timing? Use a timing light, as when you ground out the timing connector it prevents the ecu from making any timing corrections. So the logger would show -5 as that is what the ecu is expecting to see. Now wether the timing is at 5* BTDC is another story.

Get a timing light, ground the timing and see exactly what it is against the crank.

^^ Just remember, having the logger hooked up in conjunction with the timing plug grounded puts the ECU into idle adjust mode because the logger cable also grounds the plug for idle adjustment in the diagnostic port. In order to get timing adjusted correctly, you must remove the logger cable from the port before grounding the timing plug.

OP, regarding your concern with the wastegate being difficult to push in, the reason I asked you if you could push it in by hand is because it is supposed to be difficult or impossible to push the gate by hand with the springs installed; being able to easily push in the gate is indicative of spring failure, therefore, youve eliminated this as an issue At this point, regarding the gate, the only thing I can think of is that the sealing surface of the gate is not mating with the sealing ring properly, though I wouldnt think this would allow ENOUGH exhaust to bypass to create a 0 boost condition

 

[gsxjoe]

Alright, I did not know that I needed to unplug the logger from the odb port in order to adjust the timing, I was under the impression that I could leave it it and not have any worries. I'm headed out to try that now and see where I'm at.

 

[brokedowntalon7]

^^ Just remember, having the logger hooked up in conjunction with the timing plug grounded puts the ECU into idle adjust mode because the logger cable also grounds the plug for idle adjustment in the diagnostic port. In order to get timing adjusted correctly, you must remove the logger cable from the port before grounding the timing plug.

:

Did not know that. Is that true for DsmLink as well? I was under the impression that you could ground timing with dsmlink, adjust cps then be done.

Slightly off topic since the OP has a SAFC (correct?) but useful none the less.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Did not know that. Is that true for DsmLink as well? I was under the impression that you could ground timing with dsmlink, adjust cps then be done.

Slightly off topic since the OP has a SAFC (correct?) but useful none the less.

With DSMLink, I believe you can ground the timing connector and adjust timing manually via CAS. With a normal datalogger, you must disconnect it from the OBD port before setting base timing.

OP, try 3rd gear as that's a much better gear to load the motor up and build boost. But...you should still be seeing boost in 1st and 2nd. Only other thing that would cause this issue is a broken turbine wheel. Last ditch resort to check.

 

[gsxjoe]

Alright, I let the car warmup and adjusted the timing, it's right at 5degrees. All the marks are lined up and she idles beautifully. I pulled the MBC from the system and plugged the turbo vacuum line and wastegate vacuum line with a bolt and zip-tied it shut. Took it for a quick spin up and down my street and nothing. In first to second gear, letting my rpms get up to about 6k, when it looks like it should get some boost it just gets to zero and stops.

Balance shaft belt is still there.

Flexpipe in the middle of the downpipe is good.

Did not know that. Is that true for DsmLink as well? I was under the impression that you could ground timing with dsmlink, adjust cps then be done.

Slightly off topic since the OP has a SAFC (correct?) but useful none the less.

I do have an SAFC along with MAF translator v2.02.

 

[brokedowntalon7]

Just to verify, i looked back through the thread but i didn't ever see how you said the car felt. Is is slow as hell, gutless? Can you hear spool? At this point I am stumped and I jsut want to verify that you don't have a faulty boost gauge. I know it can read vacuum but are you sure it can read positive pressure?

 

[gsxjoe]

Just to verify, i looked back through the thread but i didn't ever see how you said the car felt. Is is slow as hell, gutless? Can you hear spool? At this point I am stumped and I jsut want to verify that you don't have a faulty boost gauge. I know it can read vacuum but are you sure it can read positive pressure?

It honestly feels gutless, the busted 20g I replaced I had more guts. My buddy said he could hear the turbo spool up a little. He said it sounded like a jet engine, .

According to my butt dyno, I can't feel a thing when I attempt to give it any power.

As far as the boost gauge goes, I know for sure that it can read negative pressure and even though the stock gauge isn't very accurate it should show some sort of boost but it is not. The gauge I am using is the Defi Racer gauge. It does the normal sweep and flashes when it turns on but is giving no error codes.

 

[92AWDHX40]

How are you tuning your car in case i missed that, logger, link, anything like that?

 

[gsxjoe]

How are you tuning your car in case i missed that, logger, link, anything like that?

I am using a SAFC, MAft and MMCD on a palm pilot.

I have the the MAFT set up for 720's and the base knob at 7 which was what it was with the 20g

I have the low throttle on the SAFC set to around +6% which is only 1% more than what the shop that installed the MAFT set it too.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Pull the wastegate off and hook it up to an air compressor. Hit the gate with like 25-30psi and verify that the valve is opening.

 

[gsxjoe]

I am at a loss for today as to what is causing this issue. I pulled the dp and found a small leak at the back side where it mates up to the O2 housing and fixed that. I took it for a drive and tried to give it some juice and nothing, just kinda bogs and doesn't go anywhere.


As soon as it cools down I'll put some air towards the wastegate and see if it is opening.


I think I can hear the turbo spinning up too, makes kinda of high pitched whine?

 

[nfernotalon]

My hx35 had a little play but made 0 boost in every gear like yours. It was junk and dead I put on a different holset and had boost right away. Might wanna check the turbo again.

It takes one pull with not enough oil to ruin a turbo mine was freshly rebuilt 0 miles.

 

[NickF509]

My hx35 had a little play but made 0 boost in every gear like yours. It was junk and dead I put on a different holset and had boost right away. Might wanna check the turbo again.

I'm pretty new here but i've been following your thread quite a bit. It sounds like you've checked almost everything, it seems like it might be time to try another turbo and just see what happens.

 

[gsxjoe]

Yea, as soon as my engine cools enough I plan on draining the fluids and taking the turbo off. It is a pita but that is really the last thing that could be wrong. I am not sure why it would be bad from FP. I did pretty much all the recommend things to make sure the Turbo was lubed up when I got it installed and all my boost leak checks seem good, even yelled at my neighbor across the way to try and listen for any leaking air and all he heard was the 60psi bike pump I used to charge my system.

 

[kchaazz]

At this point, I vote turbo failure, unfortunately. There just isnt anything left to consider. (I run FP turbos on my car and I love their products, so I am in NO way bashing them.) Im sure FP will be able to offer some insight as to the cause. Everybody makes mistakes, so who knows, maybe through some fluke the turbine wheel is somehow spinning independant of the compressor wheel because the damn nut is somehow loose? (Though logic insists that if the nut were loose she should have come apart by now)

 

[rEclipserGST]

Wait, you are using a bike pump to do a boost leak test???

You keeping saying you did a BLT, & everything is "kosher".... what boost level does "kosher" mean your car began to leak at? People usually do a 20-25 psi test. Air compressor. Not a bike pump.

 

[bryanwheat]

So you never answered my question. DID YOU INSTALL THE FIRE RING. Also you need something more than a bike pump for a boost leak test. You need an air compressor and you need to verify that it is holding 20+ psi of pressure. Not just pump air in and listen for leaks.

 

[gsxjoe]

I used a air compressor for the first boost leak test, and the little psi gauge hooked to the end of the tester shows 20psi, but maybe it is faulty. Air is air, whether I'm using an air compressor or a hand pump. If it is that serious then I will go pressurize the system with the compressor again and see where I'm at.

So you never answered my question. DID YOU INSTALL THE FIRE RING. Also you need something more than a bike pump for a boost leak test. You need an air compressor and you need to verify that it is holding 20+ psi of pressure. Not just pump air in and listen for leaks.

Yes. I've stated before that the wastegate has the ring. I think there is even a picture on page 2. That was one of the first things that people were asking me to do, was to check the wastegate and make sure it was all put together correctly.

Wait, you are using a bike pump to do a boost leak test???

You keeping saying you did a BLT, & everything is "kosher".... what boost level does "kosher" mean your car began to leak at? People usually do a 20-25 psi test. Air compressor. Not a bike pump.

I get it up to 20psi, that is what the boost was set to before on the 20g.

EDIT*
I think I may have figured out the problem, my wastegate is not opening or closing at all when I apply air to it from a compressor. Well it is not moving at all. I am going to check again in a sec and take it on the road to see what happens.

 

[debbie]

Surely if your waist gate is stuck shut it would cause a boost spike?
Are you doing a boost leak test from the turbo or TB? Try both.
Is your boost gauge reading anything when you are pumping air into the system?

Also we might be looking at this all wrong. I noticed you changed to a GM maf and translator. Could be this or a fuelling problem