FP Green install, Zero Boost

[gsxjoe]

I have an issue that I believe I have figured out, but would like to ask for some opinions on the matter.

I just got finished up this past week installing an FP Green and manifold along with a Punishment recirculated O2 housing. After I got everything installed and primed the turbo with oil(cranking it with injectors unplugged) I attempted to go for a drive. I started off smooth, then tried to give it some gas and nothing, won't even go above 0, vacuum reads good around 15hg. Oh, I did burp my cooling system, and replace all the fluids and plugs.

According to my logger I am showing 0 to -2 timing, which really should not effect boost at all, I did a boost leak test, was good there and finally came to the forums and did a search on "new turbos, no boost" and a lot of the issued seemed to be wastegate related. I checked the wastegate and all the fittings are correct and the hoses are tight. Doesn't the turbo need a wastegate in order to build some boost?

I am really curious to see if this is the problem or not, if anybody has any other ideas as to what it is, please let me know.


I am pulling oil from filter housing and installed all new water lines for the turbo as well as the big blue FP dump tube, MTX-L wideband and new boost gauge.

Thanks in advance!


Edit* Seeing as how a lot of people only read the first couple posts, I removed the bad information regarding my issue. *

 

[debbie]

What MBC do you have did you set up tour MBC up exactly as 4LurKer4 said? And did you try adjusting it?

 

[gsxjoe]

Good. In that case, how difficult is it for you to depress the seat on the wastegate by hand??

Pretty daggone hard, it is set to 1.3 bar. You were talking about the valve at the bottom correct? I was unable to get it to move.

What MBC do you have

The one that came on the car that I have not replaced yet, looks like a Home Depot special. I should probably upgrade that soon...

On another note, I readjusted the timing and made sure all my marks where lined up, and set my timing for 5 degrees. Light showed everything was good to go but when I checked my logger, it was showing 0-2, -3, -5. Logger is MMCD on a palm.
A/F was around 14-16 or so on wideband and vacuum after heating the car up went to around 10 and fluctuated back and forth every now and again. Not like there was a stuck valve or anything, really just random. And the FTRL on the logger was showing 116% It's suppose to be between 80 and 100% ?

I guess I'm not even going to try and get some boost until I get my vacuum where it needs to be.


One more thing, I tried spraying some carb cleaner around the intake manifold again and still nothing, unless I missed a spot that I couldn't reach.


Below are the left over springs that are in the box, I do not have a vice yet to talk the wastegate apart and see exactly what springs are in there, but using the Tial website and a flash to kind of peak inside I assumed(which is bad, I know) that it was set to 1.3 bar. Also before the item shipped I contacted Punishment to see what setting it came from their shop with and told them I would like to have it set to 1.3 bar.

 

[Boostdclips99]

Just to eliminate possibilities. When you swapped over to the o2 housing wastegate did you plug up the two holes on the turbo that the internal actuator bolted to? I've seen it happen and you build no boost.

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[gsxjoe]

Yes, at least one of the holes is welded shut where the arm was, not sure about the other. I did receive am email from the guy that built it and he said it was set up for wg on O2.

 

[gofer]

Fixed the image for ya. ^^^ Before I couldn't see it.

Yes, at least one of the holes is welded shut where the arm was, not sure about the other. I did receive am email from the guy that built it and he said it was set up for wg on O2.

Remove your boost controller all together and run a line like I posted in the image above, a straight shot from the turbo to the wastegate. You said the spring is 1.3bar so the minimum amount of boost you can run is 19psi.

You said you "plugged" the hole in the top of the wastegate too? Remove whatever you "plugged" the top of it with, the side port needs to see vacuum/boost but the top (if its not being utilized) should be left open to atmosphere.

 

[red92tsi]

You dont need a vice to take the wastegate apart. Just keep pressure on the top until all of the screws are out and then carefully let up on the top.

 

[gofer]

PR sent you a box with a Tial MVS and 3 springs like that and you ordered the 1.3bar setup? I ask because, from what I can tell, it appears they sent the springs separate from the wastegate, or so it seems?

Compare the WG spring pressures to what you've got/ordered: Tial MVS Springs

 

[gsxjoe]

Fixed the image for ya. ^^^ Before I couldn't see it.

Remove your boost controller all together and run a line like I posted in the image above, a straight shot from the turbo to the wastegate. You said the spring is 1.3bar so the minimum amount of boost you can run is 19psi.

You said you "plugged" the hole in the top of the wastegate too? Remove whatever you "plugged" the top of it with, the side port needs to see vacuum/boost but the top (if its not being utilized) should be left open to atmosphere.

The top of the wastegate is open and I can see inside.

 

[gofer]

The top of the wastegate is open and I can see inside.

Sweet. See any springs? This is getting more complicated than it should be, it can only be a handful of things causing this.

 

[banishedmunk]

Did you install the additional plugs in the reference ports all the way around the wastegate? As the MVS wastegates come with 4 holes on the side and 1 on the top.
TiAL Sport.com

 

[gsxjoe]

PR sent you a box with a Tial MVS and 3 springs like that and you ordered the 1.3bar setup? I ask because, from what I can tell, it appears they sent the springs separate from the wastegate, or so it seems?

Compare the WG spring pressures to what you've got/ordered: Tial MVS Springs

Correct, from what I can tell there are three springs inside the wastegate(I have not torn it apart just yet) and three in the box, I looked at the list from the tial website and the three springs I am missing are the ones that look like they are inside.


I also took the MBC out of the loop and went for a drive, well I drove down my street to a church parking lot and tried to get some boost, nothing, seemed like it was limping. Not really any power and boost gauge went to 0, never higher.

Did you install the additional plugs in the reference ports all the way around the wastegate? As the MVS wastegates come with 4 holes on the side and 1 on the top.
TiAL Sport.com

Yes. I plugged all the air holes minus the two labeled H2O.

 

[pj91gsx]

Would you or RvlutionMtrsprt please care to explain why there isn't exhaust gas making it to the wastegate?

How is oil pressure going to effect spool up, just curious your theory behind this too?

My friends car only did 5 psi because he did not block off the balance shaft bearing when he did the delete. answer: friction

 

[gsxjoe]

Sweet. See any springs? This is getting more complicated than it should be, it can only be a handful of things causing this.

Ya buddy, this is getting way more complicated that it should be, I know it has to be an easy fix, maybe something I overlooked or did not do correctly. Oh, yea, the wastegate is getting nice and hot like the manifold and turbo like it should.

My friends car only did 5 psi because he did not block off the balance shaft bearing when he did the delete. answer: friction

Now that you mention it, is there a way for me to check to see if the balance shafts have been removed? Without taking the timing cover off to expose everything? If there was some sort of friction cause my turbo to not spin fast enough, what else could it be? I took off my intake yesterday and the wheel was spinning nicely with the car running and off.

 

[gofer]

PJ, thats some out of the box thinking, I never considered that as a possibility. So what you found in your friends car was that low oil pressure created friction in the CHRA and the turbo wouldn't build more than 5psi? What was the condition of the turbo?

Maybe I'm an idiot but from the 20g I had prior...

What's been changed since the 20g setup you had prior besides the FP manifold, FP Green, PR o2 housing, & Tial MVS?

How much boost were you running?

 

[gsxjoe]

PJ, thats some out of the box thinking, I never considered that as a possibility. So what you found in your friends car was that low oil pressure created friction in the CHRA and the turbo wouldn't build more than 5psi? What was the condition of the turbo?

What's been changed since the 20g setup you had prior besides the FP manifold, FP Green, PR o2 housing, & Tial MVS?

How much boost were you running?

Since I had the car, I have upgraded the intercooler and BOV along with a 3.5 gm maf and translator as well the Turbo set up, manifold, O2 housing, new wastegate, turbo, dp and exhaust. I've also installed a new boost gauge and the wideband. Other things are just little stuff like new plugs, wires, battery, alternator and then of course some coilovers and new wheels. When I bought the car the kid said the engine had about 10k on a rebuild and the engine is a 1990 6bolt. The car already had an Apexi SAFC installed and injectors.

I did replace the throttle body shaft seals too as well as the other gaskets with some oem ones and new oem waterpipes for the turbo that I received from STM.



The car was running 20lbs of boost on the 20g and I have not changed the settings on the MBC at all. Do I need to readjust the boost controller? Because as of right now I would really just like to see my gauge read something other than vacuum.

 

[kchaazz]

Since I had the car, I have upgraded the intercooler and BOV along with a 3.5 gm maf and translator as well the Turbo set up, manifold, O2 housing, new wastegate, turbo, dp and exhaust. I've also installed a new boost gauge and the wideband. Other things are just little stuff like new plugs, wires, battery, alternator and then of course some coilovers and new wheels. When I bought the car the kid said the engine had about 10k on a rebuild and the engine is a 1990 6bolt. The car already had an Apexi SAFC installed and injectors.

I did replace the throttle body shaft seals too as well as the other gaskets with some oem ones and new oem waterpipes for the turbo that I received from STM.



The car was running 20lbs of boost on the 20g and I have not changed the settings on the MBC at all. Do I need to readjust the boost controller? Because as of right now I would really just like to see my gauge read something other than vacuum.

Ok. Just one more thing here. Ive just reviewed the entire thread, and never have you mentioned performing a boost leak test. This really has to be done. When I installed my FMIC, I thought that I had my clamps tight enough. Upon doing a boost leak test, every coupler leaked so badly that I couldnt even get 1 psi on my gauge. I had to use a regulator set at 25psi and had the air continuously pumping in as I sprayed soapy water on the couplers and tightened them down, one by one until I got them all. As was mentioned previously, regarding the two bolt holes on the compressor cover of your turbo, specifically, large enough leaks will piss out all the boost. Another thing to check is whether the hotside pipe going from the turbo to the intercooler has been rubbing the body of the alternator. I have seen holes rubbed through this pipe a few times, up to the size of a friggin QUARTER or better!!! Spraying carb cleaner as you have done is an easy way to find obvious vacuum leaks, but not so good for finding boost leaks.

 

[gsxjoe]

I did perform an initial boost leak test after I installed everything the first time but I have not since I took my pipes apart the day before last. I shall do another one when I get home from class today and see what happens. It's gotta be something easy and simple.

 

[gofer]

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[Boostdclips99]

I did perform an initial boost leak test after I installed everything the first time but I have not since I took my pipes apart the day before last. I shall do another one when I get home from class today and see what happens. It's gotta be something easy and simple.

This should have been the first thing done before any other diagnostics. Please answer back with results.

 

[97-TSi-Hx35]

remove the vacuum lines from the WG and plug the source with a bolt and take it for a spin and see if it hits boost....

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yep nice clean illustration just how mines set up.

 

[gofer]

This should have been the first thing done before any other diagnostics. Please answer back with results.

Written in the OP.

According to my logger I am showing 0 to -2 timing, which really should not effect boost at all, I did a boost leak test, was good there and finally came to the forums and did a search on "new turbos, no boost" and a lot of the issued seemed to be wastegate related.

Even if he has created a boost leak or two trying to diagnose the problem, the problem was there before when he had no boost leaks, so its apparent that isn't the issue.

Joe, the reason I posted that graphic above with the correct way to route your vacuum lines is because if you've got the bov going to a vacuum source ONLY (not a vacuum/boost source) then it will remain open even when the turbo starts building boost. Where is your bov sourced at? This was something banishedmunk and I spoke about today on this issue, and its all we could really come up with other than whats already been posted.

 

[bryanwheat]

If he had the bov source line hooked up to a vacuum only line on the throttle body than it would show during a boost leak test. It would push the bov right open. If there are no boost leaks here, and the turbo is sealed to the manifold, and the manifold is sealed to the head than there are only a few things that it can be. Either the wastegate fire ring is missing, the wastegate is stuck open, there is an obstruction in the exhaust or the turbo is junk. The theories about the welded flapper don't work because that would cause the turbo boost as high as it could possibly go. The exhaust gasses are bypassing the turbine somehow.

 

[gofer]

If he had the bov source line hooked up to a vacuum only line on the throttle body than it would show during a boost leak test.

The OP is using an HKS SSQV bov, I'm no engineer but it seems that if he has the bov hooked up to only the vacuum source the boost pressure in the IC pipe would keep the valve closed during a BLT. Once the car starts (creates vacuum) the bov will remain open under boost because its getting a different pressure in each of its chambers.

Unless I'm reading it wrong?

HKS SSQV Theory of Operation

 

[bryanwheat]

You are right, it should hold closed, but it would be the same while while running because there would be no vacuum present to open it unless the throttle plate was closed. When you open the throttle plate there is no vacuum present and the spring will close the valve and it will be held closed by the boost pressure.