Resolved Extend master clutch rod or shim pivot ball

[AWD-Tony]

Alright so we have success. The extended master helped the most, and after shimming the pivot ball I have no clutch drag at 7000 RPM. at 7500 the car rocks forward a little bit but not enough to move. So I'm calling it good. After the extended master rod the engagement feels awesome, it's not right off the floor anymore, the pedal comes up a couple inches before the clutch engages.

Now time for break in. : D

Awesome, Eric!! Glad it worked out.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Bringing this one back up. I’m now in the same boat. Just installed a brand new Comp clutch/flywheel into my 1g. New OEM master and slave. Bled everything. Car would not even go into gear. Pedal assembly seems to have zero play as the master rod starts to move as soon as the clutch pedal moves.

I installed a different clevis pin on the pedal assembly. This one has a nut welded onto the end for extra adjustment. This allowed me to get the car into gear, but pedal engagement is still too close to the floor for my liking.

Is my next move pulling the trans and installing a shim under the pivot ball? My last car didn’t require this and it shifted and engaged/disengaged perfectly.

 

[luv2rallye]

Every clutch pedal engages at a different place depending on geometry and wear of clutch disk, PP, fork, TO bearing, and flywheel thickness/step. The pedal and slave rods only change the pedal position of where the clutch disengages/engages. It does not make the clutch engage at the proper point in relation to the clutch geometry no matter where it is adjusted. The proper point of clutch engagement is just barely right of center in the fork window no matter where any rods are adjusted (see: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/clutch/armcentered.jpg). {Too far left and it may not disengage far enough and drag/grind gears (and may be stopped by the housing window and crack the housing). Too far right and it may not engage fully and slip.} Choice of the manufacturer's parts (geometry/alignment) and wear of clutch disk, PP, fork, and flywheel thickness/step change this. If it's not correct, you will have to change/replace manufacturer's parts or shim the pivot ball to move the fork back to the correct position. [Aside note: Many people think the pivot ball wears down when actually it's the fork at the point it rides on the pivot ball. However you should always put a small dab of grease on the end of the pivot ball due to this.] Make sure when bleeding you read and do "step two" here: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-will-not-disengage.460266/#post-153268772.

 

[speyer]

Alright so we have success. The extended master helped the most, and after shimming the pivot ball I have no clutch drag at 7000 RPM. at 7500 the car rocks forward a little bit but not enough to move. So I'm calling it good. After the extended master rod the engagement feels awesome, it's not right off the floor anymore, the pedal comes up a couple inches before the clutch engages.

Now time for break in. : D

I was wondering if anyone knows if I can remove the master adjustment rod from the master without draining the clutch fluid or removing the clutch master cylinder? I was hoping I could do the 2g master adjustment rod swap while the clutch master was still installed. I would assume I just remove the clip holding the adjustment rod and washer but I couldn't find anyone that had notes on going about that route, or if when removing that clip, dot3 fluid would shoot out everywhere under the dash?

posted diagram, and from here it seems like it seals the cylinder but I'm not 100 on that.

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[pauleyman]

I was wondering if anyone knows if I can remove the master adjustment rod from the master without draining the clutch fluid or removing the clutch master cylinder? I was hoping I could do the 2g master adjustment rod swap while the clutch master was still installed. I would assume I just remove the clip holding the adjustment rod and washer but I couldn't find anyone that had notes on going about that route, or if when removing that clip, dot3 fluid would shoot out everywhere under the dash?

posted diagram, and from here it seems like it seals the cylinder but I'm not 100 on that.

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If memory serves do not remove the clip. The long cylinder thing in the diagram 20110 is what seals everything. The clip holds it in. Remove the rubber boot and see if the adjustment rod is free. I don't think it is. I think the head if it may be under that clip also which means you have to remove the master from the car.

 

[dwb]

I think the first question is why? Are you having disengagement issues? For the most part an extended rod just masks another problem - worn pedal assy, incorrect FW step, worn pivot ball/fork, trans bolts missing or loose, or even something as basic as air still in the system.

I've disassembled several masters but it's always on the bench. IIRC, there is a rubber boot and under that you have the C-clip. The clip holds in a washer. The washer holds in the master push rod. However, from there I can't recall if the spring will push the piston out of the bore (I think it does). I suppose if you are able to hold the piston by hand and quickly insert a new push rod you could get away with doing it like that but would be a juggling act. Is it worth risking brake fluid all over your floor board?

Another option is to weld another nut to the end of the clevis and continue using the 1g push rod.

 

[speyer]

I think the first question is why? Are you having disengagement issues? For the most part an extended rod just masks another problem - worn pedal assy, incorrect FW step, worn pivot ball/fork, trans bolts missing or loose, or even something as basic as air still in the system.

I've disassembled several masters but it's always on the bench. IIRC, there is a rubber boot and under that you have the C-clip. The clip holds in a washer. The washer holds in the master push rod. However, from there I can't recall if the spring will push the piston out of the bore (I think it does). I suppose if you are able to hold the piston by hand and quickly insert a new push rod you could get away with doing it like that but would be a juggling act. Is it worth risking brake fluid all over your floor board?

Another option is to weld another nut to the end of the clevis and continue using the 1g push rod.

Flywheel was stepped/surfaced correctly, clutch was also installed correctly. My pedal assembly was welded and refurbished with the brass bushings so it should be all good from there. I have no issues going into gear or shifting but I don't like how the master adjustment is just on probably the final thread, doesn't sit well with me at all.

I wanted to see if the extended 2g rod will allow me to finally get to that block off point in adjustment where you cannot push the fork in towards the slave, I can't even get to the point where it won't push in anymore and adjust from there which is strange assuming that the whole system seems fine. I do have clutch drag when performing the test of revving to 7K rpm with the clutch pedal pushed in and in first gear on a level surface. It creeps a bit forward but I've heard both sides that it's normal and a little drag is ok and it's likely vibrations of the motor causing some friction to be picked up at the clutch plate.

If I have to remove the clutch master, re-bleed the system, that's not the end of the world. I also have one of those russell speed bleeders I could fasten on the clutch slave to hopefully make it a bit easier. Anyone have experience using them? Specifically on the clutch hydraulic system?