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2G Shimming pivot ball and clutch wear

Posted by jpmxrider489, Sep 19, 2019

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  1. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    1,642
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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I had replaced my clutch a year or so ago and only driven the car roughly 5000 miles. The flywheel is a act streetlite, clutch is a act 2600 with a street disk. I have only been to the track once since this clutch install. I did purchase these items used but with extremely low miles (guy gave me receipt of purchase). I did have my flywheel machined to the correct step height. I purchased a new oem throw out bearing and pivot ball. I didn't replace the fork but it didn't look worn. I believe I read somewhere that if I rev the engine with the clutch in, and if the car moves then I should of shimmed the pivot ball? My car does move when revving high, above my launch limit. Now based on these pictures, is this unusual wear of the flywheel, clutch, and disk? Should I shim the pivot ball now? Also this is on a 20g at 25psi on e85.

    I blew my motor and in the process of reinstalling the new one. Motor is currently out.
     

    Attached Files:

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    232
    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Sounds like you need to shim the pivot ball.. Read this from Teamrip http://www.teamrip.com/pivot-ball/. If the car moves when revving clutch is dragging. You should be able to rev to redline without movement.
     
  3. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    In my opinion, you should shim the pivot ball if that happens... ONLY if you are certain your hydraulics are 100% perfect, your step height is correct, and you don't have surface flatness issues (which you might?).

    From the pics it looks like the flywheel isn't mating too well with the disk. The heat marks are all on the outer half of the surface. Again, just based on the pics. If you look at the PP the marks cover the entire surface, so it looks like the disk mates well with the PP.

    You said you had the flywheel step machined before install? Did they cut her flat? If you are 100% sure they did (you measured yourself), maybe the issue is on the flywheel side of the disk. Examine them closely. Hopefully someone smart will chime in. But if you run more power thru it you may run out of clamping load earlier than what that clutch package is intended to.

    Maybe take the best possible pics you can of the disk (both sides, with good lighting) and upload them. I couldn't see much from your current pic tbh.
     

    Street Build 69  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 132  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 7K  9

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Hickory-NC-2Ggsx likes this.
  4. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Depends on how much they took off, you might need to shim the crankshaft side to bring it back towards the transmission.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  16

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  5. m_0ney_pit

    m_0ney_pit Proven Member

    593
    33
    Joined Jan 12, 2007
    Reading, Pennsylvania
    My act2100 did that . Shifted perfect for about 3k miles and some of the pressure plate fingers broke off and car wouldn't shift at all.

    Installed a exedy sport disc got about 15k out of it and then wouldn't disengage.installed new hydro no improvement . I cut half the closed end of a 14mm wrench off and moved the pivot ball out about 3 turns shifted great again.

    I think everyone should just put a washer behind the pivotball and be done with it and just adjust the master for less movement to get the adjustment right just my opinion though. Way better than taking the car apart again.
     

    Street Build 635  3

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  0

    1999
    manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  6. 91talonts1

    91talonts1 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 29, 2008
    Spencer, North Carolina
    Shimming the pivot ball depends on your clutch fork position. If you're looking at the fork from the front of the trans and the part the slave pushes on is further to the passenger side of the car than the center of the window then you need to shim. This is with the clutch installed and trans bolted to the block. Here's a pic I found on here that shows what I mean.
    armcentered.jpg

    Clutch drag can also be caused by an improperly adjusted clutch master. Here's a great video from Jack's on how to adjust.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  15

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  7. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I remember watching those videos. I will get better pics for you guys later today. I would like to avoid having to take this out again. I am sure that the master was correct and the hydraulics were fine. I was very thorough with that process. The picture with the fork, I am unsure where mine was at compared to the picture. I just remember revving the engine and the car moved. I think I remember the fork hitting the bell housing as well. After that I remember thinking that I should of shimmied the ball or got a new fork.

    Is there a certain size washer to use to shim the ball?

    Is the unusual wear related to the ball not being shimmed?
     

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    1,642
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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Here are some updated pics. I am curious if the odd wear is directly related to the pivot ball. If the car moved when redline rev, how would that affect the clutch when doing redline pulls? So is shimming the ball a direct fix for this issue?I didnt get a picture of the fork or the ball. As I said, when I originally did my clutch, I didnt think the fork looked worn to wear it needed replaced. I did replace the ball since they are cheap. I dont have a picture of the fork sticking out of the boot. Not sure if I said already but the fork did hit the bellhousing. Anyway, here are some better pics, let me know what you think. Im hoping someone that has first hand experience with this could chime in.
     

    Attached Files:

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  9. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    If you had the flywheel resurfaced it is almost positively guaranteed you will need to shim the pivot ball. The shim thickness needed is equal to the amount removed from a new flywheel thickness when resurfaced. The fork hitting the bell housing further verifies the need for pivot ball shimming. The TRE webpage link I posted above explains this further. Also you should check the resurfacing for flatness because of the wear pattern in your pictures as @rabenne noted. Simple way is to do it similar to checking the head & block for flatness, straight edge & feeler gauges.
    When I measured my new ACT flywheel the thickness from the back side of the crankshaft mounting face to the friction face was 1.000367" and parallel less than .0003". The shim thickness you need will be difference between your measurement & 1.000". This picture shows how I measure my flywheels.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

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    Racine, Wisconsin
    Hahaha nice. What kind of CMM is that?

    That is a good point about a resurfaced flywheel and position relative to the pivot ball. I still encourage anyone to make sure everything else is correct before shimming it. But if it is all correct, and a shim brings you back into range then do it!

    Man you have me thinking about the value of the metrology lab at work to my car projects... so far the machine shop has been pretty damn handy tho!
     

    Street Build 69  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 132  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 7K  9

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  11. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

    944
    232
    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    @rabenne. We have 2. The one in the picture is an older IMS Impact II good to about .0003 (+/-.00015) when used properly. Other is a Zeiss Contura II which is more accurate.
     
  12. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    892
    180
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    We have the same Zeiss LOL
     

    Street Build 69  12

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 132  5

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 7K  9

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    1,642
    19
    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I do not have any tools that precise. I could grab some feeler gauges and do what you mentioned. I could put the tranny on the engine with the hoist. Then check my fork position after using a washer to shim it. And if it is in the correct position, then were good to go? However, my question is the pivot ball directly related to my uneven wear?
     

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    No. Pivot ball & wear pattern are two separate issues, not related. Calipers would be accurate enough for the flywheel measurement & shim thickness if done properly.
     
  15. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I have harbor freight calipers but the measure up to .00 I believe. I had the machinist prove that it was within spec. Could it need resurfaced again? This is kind of frustrating.
     

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    1,642
    19
    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I ended up shimming the pivot ball and deleting the accumulator. But my question is, since I shimmed the pivot ball, does the rod on the pedal assembly need readjusted?
    Reason I ask is because the pedal feels different. Feels like it needs more travel but I have never felt the clutch with the accumulator deleted before.
     

    2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Yes. You've altered the geometry of levers/flucrum of the clutch system. The adjustment should be the last step with any clutch work.
     

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