The Central Hub for DSM Community and Information

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. This is where the DSM platform history is documented and archived. Log in to help us in our mission, and to remove most ads from the browsing experience.

Post a Question

1G another shim pivot ball thread

Please Support STM Tuned

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

DROPthatCLUTCH

DROPthatCLUTCH

10+ Year Contributor
483
3
Feb 21, 2011
Calgary, AB, Canada
Morning guys.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


Profile is up to date. I noticed its not sitting centered in the fork hole.
I also noticed that the fingers on the ssx pressure plate sit alot flatter then oem, thus causing the problem.

Anyone else have this problem with a southbend?

By the way, its all brand new: clutch fork, pivot ball, slave, clutch, flywheel.

So I guess its time to shim? I expected everything to be fine since it's all new... Guess not.
 

Attachments

You must be registered for see attachments list
Last edited by a moderator:
yes, you can use a arp head stud washer or similar... the arp washer has a good thickness... I just did it to mine last week and it keeps the fork a little over half, where you want it. Even with the extended rod. Good luck:thumb:
 
Pivot ball snapped off in the transmission...

It was this one: FORGED STEEL MY ASS

Makes me question the fork now...

Anyways, drilled a 1/8 hole in the center of the broken bolt in the transmission (drilled super easy, almost like alluminum) and I'm gonna pick up some easy outs tomorrow and hope it goes well.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.:banghead:
 
It didn't snap off directly below the pivot? That looks like the weakest area to me anyway

So it snapped as in -the only thing left is the threads?
 
Yes, just the threads are in the trans. Snapped off while I was loosening it out. My initial thought was, "Why is this so loose?" Gave it another turn and it popped off. Just put it in 2 days ago too, and it arrived at my house on wednesday from extreme psi.
 
Oh ok I thought you meant it snapped off and that was why the fork was sitting too far toward the trans.

So in that case you might need to shim things after all? Just to give you more ideas while the trans is still out -even though everything is brand new, have you read this yet?
RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info
 
OP said he got a brand new flywheel and I would ASSume a new flywheel would be set already... but I don't know for 100% I could be wrong there
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Very poor quality:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.


No I didn't measure the step height. Everything is brand new, including the fidanza.

I'm pretty positive the reason I have to shim is because of the southbend ssx PP.
The fingers sit alot flatter:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Compared to OEM:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.


And this makes the throwout bearing have to travel that little extra distance to contact the PP.

So I would encourage anyone using the same setup as this to save yourself the trouble and get a quality pivot ball (OEM) and shim it before installation so save yourself the trouble.
 

Attachments

You must be registered for see attachments list
I have a very similar set up to you and I had the exact same problem. First clutch install the pedal engaged an inch from the floor. Had to pull the trans and put in a washer behind the pivot ball. I also thought this was strange considering my fork, ball, flywheel, disk, and pressure plate were brand new. Perhaps it has something to do with the southbend/fidanza combo?

Either way the kevlar disk is fantastic clutch. It performs leaps and bounds better than my ACT did. You will be happy with the switch. Just make sure to give it the proper break in before beating on it.
 
You can try double checking the step height as that will definitely cause the fingers to sit more in or out. To move the fingers outward, the step would need be minimized. But only if the manufacturer recommends that
 
DROPthatCLUTCH said:
Pivot ball snapped off in the transmission...

It was this one: FORGED STEEL MY ASS

Makes me question the fork now...

Anyways, drilled a 1/8 hole in the center of the broken bolt in the transmission (drilled super easy, almost like alluminum) and I'm gonna pick up some easy outs tomorrow and hope it goes well.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.:banghead:
Click to expand...

I know this is a somewhat old post but I just had the same thing happen to me. It's cheap quality for sure. I had 0 miles on mine. All I did was start the car about 4 times and realized I needed to shim the pivot ball. So removed trans and barely turned the socket and it feel off. Now I'm trying to remove the rest of it that snapped off in the transmission. I'm going back with OEM now
 
DROPthatCLUTCH said:
Very poor quality:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.


No I didn't measure the step height. Everything is brand new, including the fidanza.

I'm pretty positive the reason I have to shim is because of the southbend ssx PP.
The fingers sit alot flatter:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Compared to OEM:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.


And this makes the throwout bearing have to travel that little extra distance to contact the PP.

So I would encourage anyone using the same setup as this to save yourself the trouble and get a quality pivot ball (OEM) and shim it before installation so save yourself the trouble.
Click to expand...

The clutch you are comparing to is not installed. The fingers will always stick out more when its not installed.
 

Attachments

You must be registered for see attachments list
Ninharu said:
I have a very similar set up to you and I had the exact same problem. First clutch install the pedal engaged an inch from the floor. Had to pull the trans and put in a washer behind the pivot ball. I also thought this was strange considering my fork, ball, flywheel, disk, and pressure plate were brand new. Perhaps it has something to do with the southbend/fidanza combo?

Either way the kevlar disk is fantastic clutch. It performs leaps and bounds better than my ACT did. You will be happy with the switch. Just make sure to give it the proper break in before beating on it.
Click to expand...

Not to thread jack but I am having the same issue as you. SBC TZB and ACT flywheel. Pedal engages 1" from floor and I adjusted it a million times to the perfect point of no over engagement and no clutch dragging. So you are saying the shim is needed to fix the engagement from floor?

Any concerns leaving that way if no dragging is occuring?
 
Its a very common problem with aftermarket clutches/flywheels.

As said above - shim it, extended rod or both. I prefer extended rod myself.
 
You should start with a brand new OEM pivot ball. Put the bell housing back on and look at the position of the fork. It should be at least perpendicular to the housing. If it is angled away from the rod/slave you will need a shim. From what I have read, extending the rod is not the best way to go - it is merely a bandaid fix. Even for me I used a brand new OEM fork and pivot ball and still clutch engaged right off the floor (followed the Jack's transmission adjustment protocol) because the fork was slightly angled away from the slave/rod. It was a huge pain as I had to tear it down just to put one washer on it. After doing this the engagement was perfect.
 
Ninharu said:
You should start with a brand new OEM pivot ball. Put the bell housing back on and look at the position of the fork. It should be at least perpendicular to the housing. If it is angled away from the rod/slave you will need a shim. From what I have read, extending the rod is not the best way to go - it is merely a bandaid fix. Even for me I used a brand new OEM fork and pivot ball and still clutch engaged right off the floor (followed the Jack's transmission adjustment protocol) because the fork was slightly angled away from the slave/rod. It was a huge pain as I had to tear it down just to put one washer on it. After doing this the engagement was perfect.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I have a new oem pivot ball and fork and my fork sits in the center of the boot (like its supposed to). I also heard shimming and extended rods are bandaids but I'm running out of ideas. Don't really want to pull the trans to put a washer in and its just a band aid.
Any other ideas?
 
Shim it. Period. Especially with the SBC/fidanza set up. Never understood why people call it a band-aid fix. I shimmed mine just a tiny bit past the center line and I love it.
 
Agreed. ^^

Authorities will swear up and down not to shim, but they do that while glazing over the fact that the disc is often much too thick which now needs a different flywheel step.

Also, there's nothing wrong with using different size slave rods. I have like 7. I use the correct one for the application. Just be wary that using an extended rod can cause problems such as over-engagement and physical interference. IMO, adjusting the pivot slightly has more benefits and less cons.
 
Last edited:
I haven't heard that yet (at least from people that know what they're talking about) but shiming the pivot is to correct the geometry due to less than perfect tolerances of each part involved. There are so many things involved there that if any are out of spec (not just the FW or clutch) will cause this. The proof is in how many times someone has made a thread wondering why this is happening with all brand new parts and no excessive crank end play.

I dont like the extended rods. Besides possible bellhousing contact, it's mostly that I consider this car my hobby, not a job I'm trying to get done with quickly. Hence why I've worked on it 70% more than actually driving it, and no, it's not because it breaks down :p
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NHerron said:
I haven't heard that yet (at least from people that know what they're talking about) but shiming the pivot is to correct the geometry due to less than perfect tolerances of each part involved. There are so many things involved there that if any are out of spec (not just the FW or clutch) will cause this. The proof is in how many times someone has made a thread wondering why this is happening with all brand new parts and no excessive crank end play.
Click to expand...

Other boards have looked into this a little more.
But what you said and what I said are essentially the same thing. Variations between clutch components can be soothed by a shim. Extended rods can cause bellhousing contact and over-engagement. It's no secret that clutch manufacturers don't run around telling everyone to use a shim. Most swear the product does not require one.

..soo you've heard that kinda stuff from people who don't know what they're talking about, just not from people who do?
Could you clarify?
 
NO SHIM

If you need a shim something is out of spec, new parts or not.

The geometry doesn't magically change on it's own.

Hal
 
Add Value - Be Respectful - No Trolling - No Misinformation - Participate Often!

Similar threads

rich3389
To shim Pivot ball or Not to shim
Replies
3
Views
2K
Calan
Calan
shim pivot ball while still in car
2
Replies
27
Views
18K
m_0ney_pit
m_0ney_pit
AWD-Tony
Resolved Extend master clutch rod or shim pivot ball
2 3 4
Replies
81
Views
15K
speyer
speyer
Paintballaa5
Shimming the pivot ball.
2
Replies
45
Views
19K
Kryndon
Kryndon
Pivot Ball over shimmed
2
Replies
29
Views
9K
ed1380
ed1380
Boosted Fabrication
ECM Tuning
ExtremePSI
FIBA Motorsport
Fuel Injector Clinic
Innovation Products
Jacks Transmissions
JNZ Tuning
Kiggly Racing
Morrison Fabrications
Rix Racing
RockAuto
STM Tuned
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top