shim pivot ball while still in car

[Silent_White]

so i did a little searching but couldn't find an answer. I need to shim the pivot ball but i don't want to pull the transmission just to do it. I pulled the rubber boot by the slave and popped the fork off the ball, it has about 1/8" to go before id be able to move it off the ball completely. If I could get a closed end wrench on it, I know i could get it.
I can fit a wrench on it but its tight enough that i cant get it to budge. If I could unscrew it a few threads and put a washer under it that has a groove cut out then tighten it back down I'm pretty sure i could get it to work.
Anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to get the pivot ball lose while working through the clutch fork hole? needle nose vice grips aren't long enough..

 

[rlacasse1]

You're going to have to pull the trans if you want to do it properly.

And have you tried adjusting your clutch pedal already? Or checked to see if it needs to be rewelded? It's just that shimming the pivot ball is more of a last resort kind of thing.

 

[gofer]

From RRE Tech.

The release bearing arm and the pivot ball will wear over time. Replacing both is one way to deal with the problem. Adding a washer or two under the arm is another way. DO NOT ADD A SHIM TO A NEW FORK AND BALL.
When the transmission is first installed in the car and just bolted down to the motor, this is the time to check the wear on the arm and ball. Checking it right that moment will save hours of hassle later! Look at where the arm protrudes out through the square boot on the front lower bell housing. With the arm pushed over towards the passenger side so that the release bearing is just touching the clutch, the arm should be either in the center of the square hole or towards the driver's side of center line.

If the arm is sitting off towards the passenger side, you need to pull the transmission back out and add a washer or two. This gets things back in line. If you don't, the hydraulics in trying to take up all the extra slack, will push the arm over and bottom out on the inner bell housing. If you are fighting clutch adjustment problems on an existing clutch install, get under the car and check this out. If you remove a crossmember to see it better, you can pull off the rubber boot and look in the bell housing with a flash light while an assistant pushes on the clutch pedal. You may see the arm hitting the inner bell housing.

If you are having problems with a clutch adjustment, don't be tempted to try to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. It may work for a few symptoms (worn pedal assembly mostly) but it is not the right way to fix things. In order to take up additional free play, it puts constant pressure on the release bearing.

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[92AWDHX40]

I was going to do a shim until i adjusted my linkage, thats where the problem was, a simple fix.

 

[Silent_White]

its a new ptt twin disc and stage 4 shep trans.. the clutch fork , between the pivot ball and slave rod, is bottoming out on the bell housing before the clutch is disengaged. I was under the impression that I didn't need to shim the pivot ball while using a ptt twin disc, i was wrong. I can clearly see whats happening while under the car looking in the clutch fork hole. shimming the pivot ball would resolve the issue. Using a regular wrench, I half rounded the pivot ball bolt.

I bought an open ended 6-point flare wrench and angled the tip with a disc grinder. I was able to get it mostly on the hex of the pivot ball, but i believe that I damaged the nut too much with the regular wrench. Had i tried this first, I know it would have worked.

I might just have to suck it up and pull the trans again.. not happy. I believe that the documentation for the PTT could be much better about the required steps for installation.

1) You will need to get 1g auto flexplate bolts to use on the flywheel. The flywheel bolts for 1G and 2G are something like 22mm long and bottom out. The auto 1G flexplate bolts are the same thread, M12, are 17mm long, and can also be torqued to 100 ft/lb.

2) you must shim the pivot ball.

These 2 things would have saved me hours of un-needed work. For the amount of $ that clutch costs, the documentation should have been readily available from the manufacturer.

 

[gofer]

...PTT also recommends using a slave cylinder that are found on Isuzu Troopers, Amigos, Rodeos, and Pickups from the late '80's to the early '90's. The Advanced Auto Parts part number for the Isuzu slave cylinder you'd need is cs12247 or 37833 from Napa.

 

[MY1GDSM]

so i did a little searching but couldn't find an answer. I need to shim the pivot ball but i don't want to pull the transmission just to do it. I pulled the rubber boot by the slave and popped the fork off the ball, it has about 1/8" to go before id be able to move it off the ball completely. If I could get a closed end wrench on it, I know i could get it.
I can fit a wrench on it but its tight enough that i cant get it to budge. If I could unscrew it a few threads and put a washer under it that has a groove cut out then tighten it back down I'm pretty sure i could get it to work.
Anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to get the pivot ball lose while working through the clutch fork hole? needle nose vice grips aren't long enough..

You could alway unscrew in to the point where theres room for a washer but not off yet an cut a notch in the washer so its a C to fit around the pivot ball base without taking it off

Of course pulling it would be the right way but it could work as afix till you do

 

[Silent_White]

You could alway unscrew in to the point where theres room for a washer but not off yet an cut a notch in the washer so its a C to fit around the pivot ball base without taking it off

This is my plan exactly... the pivot ball wont move at all though. I can't get a good enough grip on it. Anyone have a glorious idea on how i could get this thing unstuck without pulling the trans?

 

[rlacasse1]

If you already rounded the bolt you will have to pull it. There just isn't enough room to work, and it definitely isn't going to happen with that open ended wrench.

Just pull the trans, it'll only take an hour or two.

 

[SOADweskey]

I ran the PTT and I never needed to shim my pivot ball. I think you might have a bigger problem and you should pull the trans to check it out.

 

[Lofty]

With a properly stepped flywheel a new clutch fork and a new pivot ball you probably wont need to shim it. I buy all oem stuff. Never need to shim it. Just asked for your flywheel to be stepped at the highest step within spec!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Ive done plenty of clutches never used a shim i just always needed to make sure i adjusted the linkage, or under the dash.

 

[bradikus7]

I'm not sure what the question really is here? If you can get to it that way, you should do it, simple as that. There is no "proper" way to do a job that is custom to begin with . If you think you can get it done without removing the trans, you should give it a go, if it doesn't work out, you'll just have to pull the transmission.

 

[Silent_White]

the clutch fork , between the pivot ball and slave rod, is bottoming out on the bell housing before the clutch is disengaged. The flywheel is a brand new flywheel that's specific to the twin disc and needs no stepping work done to it. There is a potential that either my fork or pivot ball is worn.
In any case, since the pivot ball is pretty much rounded, I will have to pull the transmission. I'll have to do it over the next few days. oh well.

 

[Hal]

Shimming the ball, like a longer master cylinder rod, is simply addressing the symptom not the real problem.

Hal

 

[Silent_White]

pulled trans, fork was a little worn under the pivot ball. shimed the pivot ball, and everything is working fine now.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I never shimmed anything, i would replace the worn fork though overtime they do wear, i would have done that while you had the fork out. It seems it will continue to keep wearing, especially for a cheap part, thats just me, but good luck.

 

[SOADweskey]

Seriously, while you had the transmission out you should have just put a new ball and fork in. It won't matter much though since you run a twin disk you will be pulling the trans pretty often to replace clutch disks. When I had my PTT 10k miles was my average clutch disk life.

 

[Silent_White]

it was 3am and i didnt want to wait until next day.

 

[buddy3824]

Not to bring this from the dead, but i was searching the shim job on the pivot ball. My setup has new pedal assembly adjusted all the way out at the master, new master cylinder, new slave, new fork and ball. The goes in gear fine while car is off. Start it and it acts as if there is not enough pressure on clutch, as i try to push it into the 1st-5th slots, car gently begins to roll forward as if its catching. Reverse will go in slot but is grabbing. So i believe im not gettinh enough through.
Some of you say shimming or a longer slave rod is a bad idea. I believe that so in that case, what is the proper fix?

Reason for replacing parts in first place is because my clutch for broke in 2.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Are you sure it's bled and adjust right?

If the Step on your flywheel is right your clutch shouldn't be dragging... .

Some info on Step... . Roadraceengineering - Clutchandflywheeltech

 

[buddy3824]

The rod is adjusted as far it can while slave rod and fork can be pressed in by hand.
The clutch workes flawlessly before fork broke, so i didnt think to check step height while trans was pulled.

Im going to try a different method of bleeding by clamping the rubber hose while pulling up pedal slowly by hand.

 

[buddy3824]

Ive bled and bled and bled some more, pulling pedal up slowly. Still not getting enough throw. I checked position of fork in window and it is dead center so shimming is not the issue. Could the pressure plate have been messed up when the fork snapped or some other damage not visible by naked eye have occured? Im sure its hard to say, but i am just curious i anyone has had a passed expierence.

Will the extended slave rod be of any temporary help? Next winter mey get the hep trans rebuilt and a new clutch.

 

[buddy3824]

Issue was resolved with an extended master rod. Why did i need to put that in? I got a rebuilt clutch pedal assembly...

 

[Beechnut]

Impossible to do without pullibg the trans I did a five speed swap got everything back to where it was suppose to be and for got to shim so I had to pull it all out again. Lol good luck