Evo 8-10 Brembo Calipers DSM Conversion (for 1g too)

[gsxitement]

Also note that the cooling and oil systems don't run the same pressures brakes do. And I know metric threads are different from taper threads. All you did was prove my point more. I'm not sure why all the argument. I'm just trying to let people know that there's a way to do the job right and not half ass it with banjo fittings or fittings that don't mate with eachother. And I also understand banjo bolts are used in many brake applications, but not this one. I'm gonna try to get it as close to what the engineers with PHD's designed. I'm not knocking the mod, I'm just trying to get the info out there.




And by the way, if you do it with the stock fittings, guess what....the threads are whats doing the sealing, and by your own admission metric threads don't seal. Point proven.

 

[agentorange313]

Also note that the cooling and oil systems don't run the same pressures brakes do. And I know metric threads are different from taper threads. All you did was prove my point more. I'm not sure why all the argument. I'm just trying to let people know that there's a way to do the job right and not half ass it with banjo fittings or fittings that don't mate with eachother. And I also understand banjo bolts are used in many brake applications, but not this one. I'm gonna try to get it as close to what the engineers with PHD's designed. I'm not knocking the mod, I'm just trying to get the info out there.


And by the way, if you do it with the stock fittings, guess what....the threads are whats doing the sealing, and by your own admission metric threads don't seal. Point proven.

2g stock brake system uses banjo fitting, it can handle the pressure. They are located on the brake caliper and makes with the brake line. If banjos were half assing it, then there wouldn't be any banjo fittings on any of our applications, any brake application or automatic transmission systems, where the pressure far exceeds engine oil and coolant. Not all hardware has to mate to create a seal.

There is no argument, "I am just trying to let people know" there is incorrect information posted by you.

I see what your saying, but even with a banjo bolt the problem I see is the little space created by not sealing the line properly. You know what I mean? Because you're not sealing up against the inside of the master, there's a little gap. Aside from the fact that you're relying on your threads to do a percentage of sealing. It's still an awesome upgrade, and I can't wait to drive this rig. Just saying that there's a way to do it 100% proper.

Banjo bolts do not work the same way as a flared fitting, the bottom of the banjo bolt does not need to reach down and mate with the internal flare of the MBC. They seal with two crush washers. Our MHI CHRA oil feed is a banjo bolt on both the CHRA and head side, the CHRA side oil feed has a metric thread, the banjo bolt does not screw all the way down to mate with any flare inside the CHRA, infact there isnt one.

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The threads are doing 0% of the sealing, in this case.

METRIC threads do no seal, its plan and simple, straight threaded bolts aren't tapered. If the bolts are straight, they can not seal. If the threads sealed we would have no need for flared ends or o-ring/crush washers.

Our head is a perfect example, bottom middle exhaust stud, one of them leaks oil since there is a oil galley behind on the the studs. Its a metric size stud. The solution is using thread lock or thread sealant, since we cant use an o-ring/crush washer on the exhaust manifold stud.

In the picture below, I have circled the parts that do the sealing in red. This is the surface that creates the seal against the other flared end, whether it be inverted or bubble. The part in blue, are the threads, if any fluid is reaching this point, the flare is not sealing, could be flare incorrectly or damaged surface. The threads do not seal, the flared matting surfaces do, the threads are there for pressure to be applied to the flare to seal.

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Overall there is more than one way to skin a cat, that is why we have different engineering designs to do the same task or job.

 

[gsxitement]

Do me a favor and don't explain this to me like I haven't been a mechanic for 17 years. Just tell me one thing. Are there banjo bolts on the master cylinder stock? Are there banjo fitting on ANY master cylinder stock? That's all I'm saying. I try to help people out and I get talked to like I'm 5 years old.

 

[agentorange313]

Do me a favor and don't explain this to me like I haven't been a mechanic for 17 years. Just tell me one thing. Are there banjo bolts on the master cylinder stock? Are there banjo fitting on ANY master cylinder stock? That's all I'm saying. I try to help people out and I get talked to like I'm 5 years old.

I apologize if you feel that way, my last post wasn't to insult, it was to explain as clearly as possible what exactly seals and how metric threaded bolts work. Who knows who is reading this thread, the basic info wasn't just for your sake, its for othesr who are reading, maybe some who dont understand and who what to learn. The info is there not to insult you but to benefit everyone. I don't know you nor your experience level, and you dont know mine, so I am not going to assume you are a seasoned mech of 17 years.

You are 100% right , there are no banjo fittings on the stock BMC, but that is now what I am arguing, you posted WRONG information about metric threads and banjo fittings. I even highlighted them in bold.

I feel the same way, I am trying to help people out by posting information that is correct. This after all a forum, and forums are peered reviewed each other. If you would like, as I did, show me how I am wrong about metric threads not sealing on their own without a crushwasher/o ring or flared end, that would put me in my place.

 

[gsxitement]

No worries man. I just think you need to go back over what I was saying, because for the most part I'm agreeing with you. In fact, the only part I DON'T agree with is you saying to put banjo bolts in the master. I understand what you're saying about the banjo's in the calipers. The calipers deal with more volume, therefore, less pressure. So banjo bolts in that situation are acceptable. hat I meant by threads sealing (which they don't, which was my point) is that because of the lack of a proper seal, you're potentially setting yourself up for leaks. That's what I meant by thread sealing. I think it was just misunderstanding.

 

[gofer]

Good info and attention to detail, I was so worried about the stock hardline threading into the BMC I didn't even pay any attention to the flare. Now the project is trying to find a M10x1.0 adapter, I really don't want to lose the stock hardline if I don't have to.

If you would like, as I did, show me how I am wrong about metric threads not sealing on their own without a crushwasher/o ring or flared end, that would put me in my place.

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All kidding aside, my stock hardline is threaded right into that port on the 3g MBC and doesn't leak (luckily) but that doesn't mean it's installed correctly.

 

[agentorange313]

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nice one, but am going to be a stickler, thats wrong kind of tape/sealant, if any should be used at all on a brake application (which I wouldnt).

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I would use Loctite PST Thread Sealant Sticks 37615 - SummitRacing.com




EDIT: Wouldnt the easy fix be to find the flare type that is in the brake MC, and flare the stock line to match?

 

[gofer]

Yea, I was kidding and being a smart-ass. I wouldn't recommend any type of sealer on a flared brake line unless it was a precaution even with the correct fittings installed. I'm glad it was pointed out that the OE DSM brake lines don't mate with the type of fitting required in the 3g brake master cylinder, I definitely wasn't aware of it and neither are the handfuls of people with this mod.

I'm still searching for a supplier that's got a M10 x 1.0 adapter that's bubbled on the male end to fit into the BMC and inverted on the female end to mate with the OE brake line. I always thought there was an adapter for everything but this doesn't seem to be the case here...

 

[gsxitement]

Yea, I was kidding and being a smart-ass. I wouldn't recommend any type of sealer on a flared brake line unless it was a precaution even with the correct fittings installed. I'm glad it was pointed out that the OE DSM brake lines don't mate with the type of fitting required in the 3g brake master cylinder, I definitely wasn't aware of it and neither are the handfuls of people with this mod.

I'm still searching for a supplier that's got a M10 x 1.0 adapter that's bubbled on the male end to fit into the BMC and inverted on the female end to mate with the OE brake line. I always thought there was an adapter for everything but this doesn't seem to be the case here...

That link I put up "holyoke" has the fittings. M10x1.0 bubble flare to inverted flare. I believe the 3/16's number is the line size. This adapter should be a 100% solution...as much of 100% as not stock can go at least.

Item # 301-10, Inverted Flare Seat to Male Metric Thread Bubble Flare Adapter on Holyoke Fittings It says 3/16th's. But that should work. Also for the guys running -3 stainless....... AN Steel Adapters | ANplumbing.com

 

[gofer]

That link I put up "holyoke" has the fittings. M10x1.0 bubble flare to inverted flare. I believe the 3/16's number is the line size. This adapter should be a 100% solution...as much of 100% as not stock can go at least.

Item # 301-10, Inverted Flare Seat to Male Metric Thread Bubble Flare Adapter on Holyoke Fittings It says 3/16th's. But that should work. Also for the guys running -3 stainless....... AN Steel Adapters | ANplumbing.com

...I did see that (and it's a great link) but they don't seem like they'd sell just one, I sent them an email and I'm still waiting to hear back but I had to insert my company name which I dont have. Hopefully you don't have to be a supplier and I can purchase low quantities.

 

[gsxitement]

...I did see that (and it's a great link) but they don't seem like they'd sell just one, I sent them an email and I'm still waiting to hear back but I had to insert my company name which I dont have. Hopefully you don't have to be a supplier and I can purchase low quantities.

Not for nothing, this place is in Brooklyn, I'm just over the bridge in staten island. I could take a run out there and see what's the deal. Maybe they'll do low volume stuff cash and carry, you know?

 

[gsxitement]

UPDATE: If you're running -3 stainless lines, you need to get Russell fittings part number 641431.

 

[bradikus7]

Done and done. Now its just time to give it some time out on the road and see how the new brake setup performs. I've just got to put my car back together and its still in pieces so it may take a few days of wrenching.

As for the brake line that needed replaced I went to a local plumbing supply shop that carry's Earl's fittings, I snagged a 34" Earl's SS -3AN line and (2) Earl's -3AN to 10x1 adapters.

Here are the part numbers for the fittings and line...

(2) -3AN to 10x1 adapters - 592032ERL
32" of SS -3AN line - 63010134ERL​

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So these aren't the correct parts I need? I've already purchased them .

 

[miguelmcv]

I have being running the stock line along with the 3g MBC and haven't get a leak at all, it's being a while and the area is all dry, It doesn't even looks like wet or something like that, and I didn't even use sealer or some sore of.

 

[gofer]

So these aren't the correct parts I need? I've already purchased them .

The setup you quoted is the EXACT setup I've been DD'ing since I posted it and I haven't seen any leaks or loss in line pressure, I've even tracked the car a few times slowing from 100mph+.

I agree that getting the correct adapter to mate the 3g MBC with the stock brake line is a good idea but, in my case, it hasn't been necessary.

 

[bradikus7]

The setup you quoted is the EXACT setup I've been DD'ing since I posted it and I haven't seen any leaks or loss in line pressure, I've even tracked the car a few times slowing from 100mph+.

I agree that getting the correct adapter to mate the 3g MBC with the stock brake line is a good idea but, in my case, it hasn't been necessary.

Well this is comforting. I've been following your install to the T and if you haven't had issues, I'm not concerned. Thanks again Gofer!

 

[ViciousLord]

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Help me decide what caliper color to get! I'll be sending my calipers to Justin tomrrow. Looking for last minute ideas. The car is cayenne red pearl and will eventually have gold/bronze wheels. As of right now I'm leaning towards black with white lettering.

 

[dsmspick]

I say either black with silver letters, black with red letters, silver with red letters.

 

[bradikus7]

Well my black wheels don't clear

But my new Evo X wheels do and they look phenomenal on my DSM.


Rears:

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Front:

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Front with wheels:

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[dsmspick]

Damn those X's look sick!

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Just need some rubber and then I'm sure she'll look perfect

 

[bradikus7]

Damn those X's look sick!

Thanks man! I agree.

Just need some rubber and then I'm sure she'll look perfect

I've got that covered too.

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[dsmspick]

Bad ass! Get that rubber on so we can see finished product.

 

[bradikus7]

Mounted and balanced! Now I need to get this thing together and on the ground

I really like how these turned out.

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[SIMGSX]

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Powder coated... and now just waiting on my rims to come in the mail!