1G Engine Vibration after Timing belt Install?

[DSMDUDE]

Just changed timing belt and now engine sounds a bit like a coffee grinder between 3-4k rpm. I'm aware this is indicative of balance shaft being out of phase and haven't did the screw driver in back of block check yet. It doesn't sound or feel completely bad so is it possible it's off just a bit instead of being off a full rotation in either direction? I'm assuming if mechanical timing is right the front balance shaft has to be ok? Car runs strong and under boost don't really notice this noise but when accelerating off boost between 3-4k rpm is when I can really hear it. Is running it this way bad for the motor?

 

[DSMDUDE]

Ok since I have timing cover off and probably taking belt off now too, what other potential problem areas do I need to look at closely? Cams seals, crank seal, anything else?

If my new valve cover gasket is indeed leaking, on a visual inspection is it hard for a novice to tell whether it's that or cam seals or both? Do you need to pull end cam caps when changing seals or can you get them in just as easy by just removing cam gears?

 

[pauleyman]

I like to remove those two end caps but it's not required

 

[DSMDUDE]

Ok not much harder removing end caps, any tips on install so they don't leak later on? I'm assuming cam gears only go back on in 1 position?

 

[pauleyman]

If there is a groove in the cam I will push the seal a little further so the new seal doesn't sit in that groove. don't see that often. Can't remember if cam gears are identical so I'd put them back where they came off. They're doweled so obviously they only go one way. They're not symmetrical front to back either but it should be obvious.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Use engine oil or lithium complex wheel bearing grease on inner oil seal to prevent dry start up? Oil or grease on just inner seal, not outer or face sides?

Will I need wobble extensions on impact gun for cam gear bolts?

 

[pauleyman]

Inner seal. No wobble. Go to the garage.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Inner seal. No wobble.

Do you use gasket maker anywhere around seal or end caps like guy in link below? Is engine oil on inner seal good because he shows heavier grease being used.

How to change Cam seals

 

[pauleyman]

I use no sealant and I use engine oil. Lithium greae is fine but honestly I usually just stick my finger in the engine and get some oil on it to rub on the seal. This isnt rocket science.

 

[1gAWD_tech]

These are interference motors, and ive learned over the years when you try to save a penny here itll cost you a lot later on. If you have a vibration after your timing belt job then you most likely have your balance shaft off, undue your motor mount on belt side and remove the cover and check your timing marks... not just the once on the crank pully and cam gears.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Checked timing marks again today and they look good. So I changed tensioner arm because of divot and then used a lever to get tensioner pulley holes to 11 + 1. Compressed auto tensioner in vice and after install plunger spec looked good.

I had to remove auto tensioner after pulley was set in place and then had trouble getting it bolted back on so I wound up prying up on arm a bit but didn't like doing that. Other than loosening pulley is there a better way to get auto tensioner back on once puley is set and belt is on?

Since timing marks were good, before removing arm I zip tied belt to cam gears and chalk marked it and used a clamp on crank + oil sprockets and marked those too.

Anyhow finished at 2 am and started car briefly so tomorrow will inspect closely and left timing cover off for now.

Btw my cheap harbor freight snap ring pliers were no help for pulley. I do see pulley tool for 10 bux shipped so might get that.

 

[pauleyman]

Checked timing marks again today and they look good. So I changed tensioner arm because of divot and then used a lever to get tensioner pulley holes to 11 + 1. Compressed auto tensioner in vice and after install plunger spec looked good.

I had to remove auto tensioner after pulley was set in place and then had trouble getting it bolted back on so I wound up prying up on arm a bit but didn't like doing that. Other than loosening pulley is there a better way to get auto tensioner back on once puley is set and belt is on?

Since timing marks were good, before removing arm I zip tied belt to cam gears and chalk marked it and used a clamp on crank + oil sprockets and marked those too.

Anyhow finished at 2 am and started car briefly so tomorrow will inspect closely and left timing cover off for now.

Btw my cheap harbor freight snap ring pliers were no help for pulley. I do see pulley tool for 10 bux shipped so might get that.

This is why the manual states the use of the special tools. You arent supposed to pry to get the tensioner on because the pulley is already tightened. You're supposed to install the tensioner and then tighten the pulley. If you have to take the tensioner off you loosen the pulley. Does that mean you have to retension and recheck if you do this? Yes. Does that mean it has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass? Yes. The special tools make it way eadier to set tension. Now that youre done double check the protrusion on the tensioner. It must be within spec. There is NO OTHER WAY. if its wrong you retension. This does not mean you need to pull the tensioner. It means you need to move the pulley. After you do that you rotate the motor six times. Line all the marks again, let it sit 15 min and recheck protrusion. You repeat this process as many times as necessary until its right. With practice you get it the first time. For reference the first one I did 25 years ago it took me ten tries to get it right. One more time....the tensioner must be within spec or you keep doing it until it is. Did you read my other threads? The special tools allow you to hold the tensioner arm down and move the pulley easily. Its a convenience thing. Its doable without but way easier with. I only did that very first job without. The next hundred or more with. Way better.
This job is my single biggest pet peeve. Owners screw it up so often. You should know the job is right before you ever turn that key as the specs are concrete and non negotiable. Its hard to get them there first try but easy easy to verify if it is.

 

[DSMDUDE]

When I first tried lining up all the marks I could have sworn timing was off 1/4-1/2 tooth. When I had cam gear marks exactly even and where they should be, the indicator for crank sprocket appeared to be a little high (instead of pointing to center of notch on Crank). I was getting ready to pull belt off but decided to take pics first and was amazed when they showed CS indicator was in fact dead center (when cams and all other marks lined up). So apparently not being able to get a good head on view of indicator made me think it was off when it really wasn't. I can't help but think others must be running into this same problem?

Do you loctite cs sprocket bolt, crank pulley, water pump pulley bolts etc? Red or blue?


On waterpump pulleys, I see how the inner one goes on but what about the outer one? Which pic is correct?

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[ThunderChild]

First pic for the water pump pulley

 

[pauleyman]

No loctite of any kind. Not needed.

 

[DSMDUDE]

How bad is a nic in tensioner pulley? Will this ruin a new belt in no time? It's a small nic but it's rough, maybe use some fine sand paper on it? Pulley is brand new.

 

[Dsmkauai]

For the water pump the outer one goes on the same way as the inner. Use the alignment hole as your guide, Both holes go together.

 

[DSMDUDE]

For the water pump the outer one goes on the same way as the inner. Use the alignment hole as your guide, Both holes go together.

Which pic above is correct though? (see post # 88)

All timing marks only line up once every 6 turns of crankshaft? Or do they line up twice but only once when #1 piston is TDC?

What about using fine sand paper to get that rough nic smooth on tensioner pulley mentioned a few posts ago?

 

[Dsmkauai]

Neither pic looks right to me. Take the outside pulley off. Look for the alignment pin and hole on little pulley. Then line up the big one the same way. Make sense?

And yes timing marks line up every other rotation. Saying to go 6 rotations is just to make sure you rotate the motor enough after belt install. And again yes you can use sand paper to make smooth. I would for sure so you don't chew up the belt early.

 

[DSMDUDE]

I removed timing belt again last night to reset tensioner pulley becasue plunger was a bit off spec. I installed timing belt but didn't start car yet and just realized although #1 piston was at TDC, I don't know if it's on compression or exhaust stroke. What would be the easiest way to check that now (all plugs are still out)? Would it be bad to start motor if it's on exhaust stroke?

 

[pauleyman]

It doesn't matter unless you're setting up for the first time. If all you did was retention technically you could use TDC on either stroke but yes only once every six times do all 5 marks line up AND cam dowels are up. I would rotate until all 5 line up. Dowels up then check protrusion and marks. If ANYTHING doesn't line up or is out of spec you MUST fix it then recheck.

If you make any adjustments rotate the motor six times again. Why. It makes sure there is no slack on the idle side.

Did you read the links I gave earlier in the is thread? Go back and reread please.

 

[DSMDUDE]

What I meant was I took belt off and being new to timing belt jobs I might have turned crankshaft independently of cam gears without realizing it. So although I aligned crank notch and had screw driver on piston #1 to look for TDC, I don't know if it's TDC compression or exhaust stroke..

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Redo your timing job. Its the only way to see all lower timing marks and see your balance shaft positions. You will have to remove the lower timing cover. There are six different rotations before all line up which is why after timing you rotate the motor six times and recheck the hydraulic tensioner.

 

[DSMDUDE]

When crank notch is lined up with indicator mark does that guarantee cylinder #1 TDC Compression stroke? My guess is it does

 

[pauleyman]

No. Only when cam dowels are up. All 5 marks line up cam dowels up. Screwdriver goes in. ONLY THEN is it right.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Yes, I have belt back on and cam gears and crank marks are all in correct position. Does that guarantee #1 piston is TDC compression stroke or could it be TDC exhaust stroke?