1G Engine Vibration after Timing belt Install?

[DSMDUDE]

Just changed timing belt and now engine sounds a bit like a coffee grinder between 3-4k rpm. I'm aware this is indicative of balance shaft being out of phase and haven't did the screw driver in back of block check yet. It doesn't sound or feel completely bad so is it possible it's off just a bit instead of being off a full rotation in either direction? I'm assuming if mechanical timing is right the front balance shaft has to be ok? Car runs strong and under boost don't really notice this noise but when accelerating off boost between 3-4k rpm is when I can really hear it. Is running it this way bad for the motor?

 

[steve]

Is the main thing on 1g's to get the tensioner pulley holes at 11 + 1 o'clock position or is there ever a reason why those holes shouldn't be exactly or near 11 + 1?

The tensioner pulley holes wind up where they wind up when the auto-tensioner pin is extended per the specification.

It's not the location of the holes but the amount of tension on the belt as indicated by the auto-tensioner pin that is important.

 

[pauleyman]

Pull the cover. There is no other way. You wont know where the marks are until you do. I don't think this can be misinterpreted. Pull the covers, line up the marks, test with screwdriver. That is the factory manual method and it works.

 

[DSMDUDE]

The tensioner pulley holes wind up where they wind up when the auto-tensioner pin is extended per the specification.

It's not the location of the holes but the amount of tension on the belt as indicated by the auto-tensioner pin that is important.

The holes don't wind up at 11 + 1? Could have sworn I read many threads saying they do. Are they supposed to be at or near 11 + 1 during any part of the whole process?

I plan on using snap ring pliers so all I read so far is to get pulley holes vertical at 7 + 10 position with center bolt finger tight and then torque center bolt. That upon torquing it the pulley holes should wind up at or near 11 + 1. Please enlighten me because I've been reading for 2 weeks now on how to change t-belt and need to get this done right. Thanks!

 

[pauleyman]

Where the holes line up doesn't matter. They are in an approximate position given a certain tension. As already stated above what matters is the position of the hydraulic tensioner.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ar...t-you-shouldnt-be-after-you-read-this.450253/

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/timing-belts-and-tdc-long-writeup.437761/

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/why-do-people-still-screw-up-timing-belt-jobs.429897/

Btw the holes arent always vertical. It depends on model year. On your 1g yes they should be up top. This is why everyone should own a FACTORY service manual

 

[chrysler kid]

If you don't line up the oil pump sprocket in time with the balance shaft it vibrates enough to rattle the sunroof on a 2g.

I've also wondered what orientation the factory motor mount should have the angle of the engine in the engine bay, for example if you sat a leveling tool on the engine in the bay what angle it is suppose to Lean

 

[DSMDUDE]

Btw the holes arent always vertical. It depends on model year. On your 1g yes they should be up top. This is why everyone should own a FACTORY service manual

Meaning 11 + 1 o'clock position when tensioner pulley is tightened?

 

[steve]

No, meaning above the centerline due to how the early tensioner pulley rotates into the timing belt. The later pulley design rotates the other direction into the belt so the holes wind up below the centerline of the pulley.

 

[DSMDUDE]

So, on my 1g 7-bolt it's important for tensioner pulley holes to line up 11 + 1 position? Because I plan on using snap ring pliers.

 

[2k11evo]

Have you pulled the cover off yet ?
Sounds like balance shafts as stated.

 

[steve]

So, on my 1g 7-bolt it's important for tensioner pulley holes to line up 11 + 1 position? Because I plan on using snap ring pliers.

We've answered the question three times now. I don't know how to make it clearer.

 

[DSMDUDE]

We've answered the question three times now. I don't know how to make it clearer.

In post #26 you said:

The tensioner pulley holes wind up where they wind up when the auto-tensioner pin is extended per the specification.

But in post #30 you said:

Btw the holes arent always vertical. It depends on model year. On your 1g yes they should be up top.

Then is post #33 you said:

No, meaning above the centerline due to how the early tensioner pulley rotates into the timing belt. The later pulley design rotates the other direction into the belt so the holes wind up below the centerline of the pulley.

What do you mean the holes in pulley should be 'up top' and 'above centerline'? Wouldn't that be 11 + 1 position? You also said it's not important where holes wind up. So I'm really confused.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The position of the holes is a general guideline. For a 1G, they could end up at 11 and 1. They could also end up at 10 and 12 or 12 and 2, or anywhere in between. That's why he says the position doesn't matter. You're not trying to set the tensioner at any of these positions, specifically, that's just where they tend to end up. You are setting the tensioner to meet the specification for the gap between the hydraulic tensioner body and the tensioner arm. Nothing about the holes' positions will tell you whether the tension is correctly set.

 

[steve]

Nothing about the holes' positions will tell you whether the tension is correctly set.

Exactly!

 

[DSMDUDE]

The position of the holes is a general guideline. For a 1G, they could end up at 11 and 1. They could also end up at 10 and 12 or 12 and 2, or anywhere in between. That's why he says the position doesn't matter. You're not trying to set the tensioner at any of these positions, specifically, that's just where they tend to end up. You are setting the tensioner to meet the specification for the gap between the hydraulic tensioner body and the tensioner arm. Nothing about the holes' positions will tell you whether the tension is correctly set.

Ok so I'm going to be looking in that range as a general guide. What else might be a guide at that point other than feeling tightness of pulley against belt before I pull grenade pin? Seems like the chances are slim for a first timer to have the plunger measurement wind up being accurate especially when using snap ring pliers to set pulley. Are my odds of getting pulley right much better if I use the special tool and torquing to spec?

 

[Dsmkauai]

You can set it that way, the tools are just much simpler. Easier to get right the first time. It's set correct when the pin slides freely in and out. Read through this, http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html. I just go with the gernade pin method. Measures out http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/timing-belt-tensioner-measurement.380501/.
this one shows the measurement,
Measure the distance (between the tensioner arm and auto tensioner body).
Standard value: 3.8 - 4.5 mm

http://my.prostreetonline.com/2014/07/09/how-to-change-a-4g63-timing-belt/

 

[Black95TSIawd]

To confuse you even more!!...


I've never used tools to set the tension on the tensioner pulley. I would remove the whole arm, mark the location of the current pulley and reinstall the new in the same location. Has worked for me the last 10 plus years of fiddling with these cars.

 

[DSMDUDE]

I've never used tools to set the tension on the tensioner pulley. I would remove the whole arm, mark the location of the current pulley and reinstall the new in the same location.

How do you get belt on if you're setting tensioner pulley on arm while it's off the car? Are you then using the technique where you sort of muscle belt over pulley and if so how do you do that without putting too much stress on belt?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

How do you get belt on if you're setting tensioner pulley on arm while it's off the car? Are you then using the technique where you sort of muscle belt over pulley and if so how do you do that without putting too much stress on belt?

Yes, I do "muscle" it a bit, but it gets on pretty good. I save mounting the actual trensioner last for this reason.

 

[DSMDUDE]

I had timing belt done recently so if front balance shaft sprocket and CS sprocket line up with marks then I don't have touch balance shaft belt or BS pulley even if I do need to pull timing belt off, right?

How do I check balance shaft belt tension anyhow? By feeling it or does BS pulley apply proper tension via torquing bolt to proper spec or does BS pulley have to be positioned correctly and if so how is that done?

 

[chrysler kid]

You do not set the tensioner by looking at the tensioner pulley holes orientation.

You verify the gap between the tensioner arm and the hydraulic tensioner is .15 in spec

If you follow the vfaq step by step it guides you through this process seamlessly. Print out the instructions to have next to you, I promise it will make sense as you follow the steps

 

[rw87tt]

Here you go. Follow it in detail. Don't forget you have to adjust the timing belt tension: http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[pauleyman]

I had timing belt done recently so if front balance shaft sprocket and CS sprocket line up with marks then I don't have touch balance shaft belt or BS pulley even if I do need to pull timing belt off, right?

How do I check balance shaft belt tension anyhow? By feeling it or does BS pulley apply proper tension via torquing bolt to proper spec or does BS pulley have to be positioned correctly and if so how is that done?

Wait a min....you had it done? Then why isnt that shop fixing it?

 

[DSMDUDE]

Wait a min....you had it done? Then why isnt that shop fixing it?

It was a dsm'er not a shop and since I don't feel confident with how it turned out I'm going to fix myself now.

I've been reading for hours + hours for past 2 wks including vfaq and taking notes. Bare with me because I still have questions that will help me fully understand everything I've read and people are indeed using different strategies for doing this job.


Ok so I understand the plunger measurement is most important along with all timing marks lining up exactly. If my auto tensioner plunger winds up with too large a gap is that indicative of a tensioner pulley that needs to be rotated/tightened against belt more snugly? So I would compress plunger+ put pin back in and make tensioner pulley more tight against belt? How would plunger ever have too small of a gap if you're pulling pin after setting tensioner pulley? Is it that a pulley that's too tight will make arm compress plunger after pin is pulled? After waiting 15 min and if gap is .15-.17" the pin will also slide back in freely?

 

[chrysler kid]

If you over rotate the tensioner pulley it will put too much pressure on the belt and the hydraulic tensioner will depress and the gap will be too small.

If you don't rotate the tensioner pulley enough to get the belt snug the hydraulic tensioner rises to push the tensioner pulley up to apply the correct tension on the belt

Basically you have to estimate how much tension to apply using just the pulley so that when you release the grenade pin the hydraulic tensioner is not over extended or compress when it applies tension to the belt. That is why it states in the vfaq to rotate the crank after setting and waiting 15 minutes because the hydraulic tensioner either raises or settles. It may take a few tries

 

[DSMDUDE]

For compressing auto tensioner, will battery tie down bolt work (after grinding down nubs) without redoing threads because I don't have a die? It probably wouldn't be hard for me to remove auto tensioner either and compress in a vice, will it come right off? I mean the tension against arm isn't an issue for removal at that point is it? (Of course If possible I'd be putting the pin back in hole first). What is easier, using battery tie down bolt or vice or is it simply personal preference?