1G Engine Vibration after Timing belt Install?

[DSMDUDE]

Just changed timing belt and now engine sounds a bit like a coffee grinder between 3-4k rpm. I'm aware this is indicative of balance shaft being out of phase and haven't did the screw driver in back of block check yet. It doesn't sound or feel completely bad so is it possible it's off just a bit instead of being off a full rotation in either direction? I'm assuming if mechanical timing is right the front balance shaft has to be ok? Car runs strong and under boost don't really notice this noise but when accelerating off boost between 3-4k rpm is when I can really hear it. Is running it this way bad for the motor?

 

[Marchev]

I would fix it right away if it were me. It's unnecessary stress/vibration. No matter if it was off a tooth or a whole rotation, timing belt needs to come off.

 

[gst-turbo]

Your probably right it the balance shaft not in the correct phase it has 3 positions fix it you shouldent drive it that way

 

[Dsmkauai]

It's really easy to find the correct spot. You don't even need to use the screw driver method. Just have to rotate the oil pump pulley by hand till it returns to correct timing mark. Def sounds like it's off.

 

[JS4G63]

It's really easy to find the correct spot. You don't even need to use the screw driver method. Just have to rotate the oil pump pulley by hand till it returns to correct timing mark. Def sounds like it's off.

+1
Because the balance shaft has a counterweight on it you can rotate the shaft by hand, a half turn at a time, until gravity pulls the weight down. If the timing mark on the sprocket is lined up with the indicator on the front case after gravity does it's job, you should be good to go!

 

[Mello]

Line up your motor to #1 TDC. Take the Oil pump counter balance and turn it by hand till the timing mark is straight up & let go. If it rotates from gravity clockwise you have it timed wrong. Turn it again, let go, it if rotates counterclockwise adjust it to the "real" timing mark and install your T-belt. Everything will be in phase.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Shouldn't I do the screw driver through hole in back of block test first to see if it's off? If it is then I have to remove timing belt to set balance shaft correctly, right?

 

[steve]

As long as you have both balance shafts are still installed both need to be timed correctly.

 

[DSMDUDE]

I do understand they need to be timed correctly. So should I do the screw driver check first and if it's no good then remove timing belt to set them?

Btw can front balance shaft be out of phase or just rear? If so, is there a difference in amount of engine vibration depending on which one is out of phase? What if it's not 180 out but just off a little bit? Will there be the same 2500-4500 noisiness/vibrations but just less pronounced?

 

[Dxc545]

My second dsm was out of phase as well with the same symptoms. Just the rear can be out of "phase". Should be re timed asap as it is also the oil pump and the vibration will lead to wear.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Do I have to remove timing cover and align all timing marks before sticking screw driver in hole? And do I have to crank engine up to 6 times and subsequently check with screw driver in hole up to 6 times to find out for sure if balance shaft is out of phase or not?

 

[Maes]

Line up all timing marks first. Then check with the screwdriver.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Line up all timing marks first. Then check with the screwdriver.

Just line up all the marks and check once or do I have to rotate engine up to 6 more times and check again? Is lower timing cover removal needed to see all those marks?

 

[Maes]

Yes you will need to remove the lower timing cover to make sure All timing marks are lined up correctly then check 1 time with the screwdriver. It may take up to 6 rotations for All timing marks to be properly lined up.
You could just verify with the number 1 piston that your at top dead center. But either way sounds like you need to rotate the oil pump to the correct position so I would just take it all off.
Question did you change the balance shaft belt when you changed the timing belt?

 

[DSMDUDE]

Yes, balance shaft belt was just changed.

Are you saying for screw driver test all I have to do is get #1 cylinder TDC? Because that would be 10x's easier than removing timing cover..

 

[Maes]

Well yes that's when All timing marks should be lined up. Some of the other guys also suggested that earlier in this thread

 

[DSMDUDE]

Well yes that's when All timing marks should be lined up. Some of the other guys also suggested that earlier in this thread

Well yes what? It was suggested earlier that I do the oil pump sprocket gravity test but timing belt job is buttoned up now so someone said check all timing marks and do the screw driver test. I responded by asking if I needed to remove timing cover to check those marks for alignment and the answer was affirmative. But then by what someone said it sounded like perhaps all I needed to do was get #1 cylinder TDC and then check with screw driver. So I didn't know if that meant checking timing marks is unnecessary for screw driver phase test.

 

[Maes]

Ok I don't know what your not understanding but I'll try and make it easier to understand. Since your car is not the same as it was before you did the timing belt something got messed up. So save yourself some time and redo your tbelt job because clearly something got messed up. That is why I suggested what I said earlier, just trying to help you save a little bit of time. In the long run. Yes you need to redo your timing.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Ok but before I remove t-belt I want to do the screw driver test just to see if balance shaft is indeed out of phase. Is the only way to do that test is to line up all timing marks first? Could I perhaps instead remove spark plug #1 and place a screw driver on top of piston and turn crank until it's all the way up and then do screwdriver in block test?

 

[Maes]

Yes to do that test the timing marks need to be lined up. Yes you can get the number 1 piston to tdc at which point that is where all your timing marks should lined up.

 

[DSMDUDE]

But do I need to line up all timing marks or is it possible to just put a screw driver on top of cylinder # 1 and watch for it to reach it's highest point and then do screw driver in block check? Because having cylinder # 1 at it's highest point doesn't necessarily mean all timing marks will be lined up, right? I mean how many times can cylinder # 1 be at it's highest point and NOT have all timing marks lined up?

The reason I'm asking is I want to do the screw driver in block check FIRST before messing around with t-belt and if I can simply set piston # 1 at highest point WITHOUT removing timing cover to see if all marks are lined up, well, doing screw driver test will be that much easier. Hope someone can understand why I'm asking.

 

[Maes]

All the information that you need has been already said in this thread. Everyone has given you the advice on what to do. Its your choice if you use the advice.

 

[DSMDUDE]

Please don't respond unless you can be more helpful. I reread every post 3 times and did not get the answer to my question.

It may be a stupid question, but here goes again. If I look inside cylinder #1 and see piston is at it's highest point, is that enough to go do the screw driver in block test? Or do I have to pull timing cover + check all marks are lined up before doing screw driver in block test?

Or would lining up crank pulley ignition timing mark and watching for piston # 1 at highest point suffice for pulling timing cover and checking all marks JUST for sake of doing screw driver in block check?

I do know, thanks to everyone who responded, that lining up all timing marks is the way to go before doing screw driver in block check. But i'm trying to see if there's an easier way than pulling timing cover and checking all timing marks just for sake of performing screw driver in block test because not having to pull lower t-belt cover would save me some time + trouble.

I'm not sure how to make that more clear, please respond only if you understand the question. Thanks!

 

[NeEmO6]

As Maes said your question has already been answered. To answer again, Even if you do the screwdriver test and the piston is at its highest point, doesnt necessarily mean that your timing marks are lined up. The most likely answer to your issue is that the balance shaft is out of sync and needs to be rotated one turn and lined up again. Plain and Simple, you have to redo the timing belt, no way around it.

 

[DSMDUDE]

What about if piston is at it's highest point and crank pulley timing mark is at 'T'? Would that suffice for pulling timing cover and checking all marks just for sake of doing screw driver in block test?

Either way I think I am going to pull timing cover and check everything out. Does anyone know if the angle grinder tightening tool would work as a tensioner pulley tool substitute? Are there other good makeshift options for that or should I just grind down a needle nose pliers? Is the main thing on 1g's to get the tensioner pulley holes at 11 + 1 o'clock position or is there ever a reason why those holes shouldn't be exactly or near 11 + 1?