2G Cyclone in a 2G

[Justin DuBois]

I'm looking for examples of a Cyclone intake in a 2G. Particularly in the area where the coil pack bolts on in the corner with the brake booster and AC pump.

Where are you out there? I know someone has this setup. Looking for people with the experience of doing it.

Justin

 

[curt-s]

So you're only looking for stocks?
I didn't have any coil brackets or whatnot so I had to get creative
PTU bracket/heat shield is one bolt off the back of the IM near the throttle cable bracket
This was a pretty rush job in the last month of the season because I was too impatient to wait to see the benefits.

Personally I realized none and it made things worse (BLT was 25-10 in 90+ seconds, I stopped at 2min, I consider that good). I'm putting it back on though as I'm determined to make it gooder

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[ErikTande]

I'm also interested in seeing setups.

 

[trogador2005]

Most of the 2g with a cyclone setups I see use COP for this very issue. but it could be they just don't have the bracket?

 

[Justin DuBois]

So you're only looking for stocks?
I didn't have any coil brackets or whatnot so I had to get creative
PTU bracket/heat shield is one bolt off the back of the IM near the throttle cable bracket
This was a pretty rush job in the last month of the season because I was too impatient to wait to see the benefits.

Personally I realized none and it made things worse (BLT was 25-10 in 90+ seconds, I stopped at 2min, I consider that good). I'm putting it back on though as I'm determined to make it gooder

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Nice - I'm going to see if the stock brackets will fit, and COP is not the plan.

Are you actuating the butterfly valve in the intake? - What method are you using to trigger (like with a solenoid) and what actuator/vac canister are you using to make it work?

 

[curt-s]

Nice - I'm going to see if the stock brackets will fit, and COP is not the plan.

Are you actuating the butterfly valve in the intake? - What method are you using to trigger (like with a solenoid) and what actuator/vac canister are you using to make it work?

I am actuating it, using the fuel pressure solenoid via ecmlink and the Dodge Neon vacuum canister (PN 4677204) -- picked a bunch off at a wrecker. Of course, looking at these pics, I'm second guessing whether I have that plumbed correctly but I think I do.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Whilst I felt no gains and had to make VE adjustments, the big downside I noticed is hard down in 5th gear at ~2k rpm and 20psi+, I swear I was making the 16g surge. Too low of RPM and half the regular 1g port volume can't move enough air through, so activation strictly by RPM may be ill advised. The problem with ecmlink is its activations are ANDs, not ORs, so with just one solenoid you'd have to activate strictly by boost and not high RPM (keep the RPM threshold at like, 1000).

If you really want RPM > 4100 or boost > 15, or something, you'd need to build an OR out of vacuum lines using tees and both the FPR and EGR solenoids. One then can be RPM based and the other boost based.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I am actuating it, using the fuel pressure solenoid via ecmlink and the Dodge Neon vacuum canister (PN 4677204) -- picked a bunch off at a wrecker. Of course, looking at these pics, I'm second guessing whether I have that plumbed correctly but I think I do.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Whilst I felt no gains and had to make VE adjustments, the big downside I noticed is hard down in 5th gear at ~2k rpm and 20psi+, I swear I was making the 16g surge. Too low of RPM and half the regular 1g port volume can't move enough air through, so activation strictly by RPM may be ill advised. The problem with ecmlink is its activations are ANDs, not ORs, so with just one solenoid you'd have to activate strictly by boost and not high RPM (keep the RPM threshold at like, 1000).

If you really want RPM > 4100 or boost > 15, or something, you'd need to build an OR out of vacuum lines and the FPR and EGR solenoids.

Thank you for PN 4677204 - that will come in handy.

 

[Stapl3]

Whilst I felt no gains and had to make VE adjustments, the big downside I noticed is hard down in 5th gear at ~2k rpm and 20psi+, I swear I was making the 16g surge. Too low of RPM and half the regular 1g port volume can't move enough air through, so activation strictly by RPM may be ill advised. The problem with ecmlink is its activations are ANDs, not ORs, so with just one solenoid you'd have to activate strictly by boost and not high RPM (keep the RPM threshold at like, 1000).

If you really want RPM > 4100 or boost > 15, or something, you'd need to build an OR out of vacuum lines using tees and both the FPR and EGR solenoids. One then can be RPM based and the other boost based.

Do you have a datalog of this?

 

[CrackedDSM]

@MindBlowin03

Got any pics of your setup?

 

[MindBlowin03]

@MindBlowin03

Got any pics of your setup?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Justin DuBois]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Perfect color scheme - Can you get a tight shot near the break fluid reservoir? No AC eh?

 

[MindBlowin03]

Perfect color scheme - Can you get a tight shot near the break fluid reservoir? No AC eh?

These pictures are a bit old but might the best I have. I've since changed setups so I can't get anything current.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[curt-s]

Do you have a datalog of this?

I will see what I can dig up. I basically datalog all the time but many times I've been dumb and didn't stop the log when I changed parameters on the fly, so I don't have accurate FPS configuration saved in all cases. This was Sept of '22, just before it's long nap

Not sure what surge would look like anyway in a log, as you're still filling the cylinders as much as the valvetrain movement will allow. If my VE was set up in those areas (likely not), it would look normal, wouldn't it?
I don't have airflow readings from a mas.

it should be easy enough to spot -- 20psi+ and <2500rpm.

 

[jdxnc]

This is one setup where I could probably condone a COP setup over the oem coils on Ecmlink. A set of Prius coils would be just about the same amount of spark with way less space used up.

 

[Justin DuBois]

These pictures are a bit old but might the best I have. I've since changed setups so I can't get anything current.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Nice FP regulator - on the rail!. That flex fuel sensor is tight in there.

I wonder if two ve tables would be useful. One with the valve open, one with the valve closed, and then switch tables depending on the solenoid position. The switchover point could be managed based on the RPM and/or Boost that gives the best response.

 

[MindBlowin03]

I wonder if two ve tables would be useful. One with the valve open, one with the valve closed, and then switch tables depending on the solenoid position. The switchover point could be managed based on the RPM and/or Boost that gives the best response.

When using the manifold with a WGA(I used a t25 WGA) the VE kinda works that way anyways. I tested my setup if I remember correctly it started to open at 14psi and fully at 17psi. That gives you a head start on where the VE tables will be in certain areas.

Nice FP regulator - on the rail!. That flex fuel sensor is tight in there.

I have since switched both pieces. The regulator was having a hard time keeping up with the new Walbro 525 at the time so I upgraded to a different setup this past year. Flex sensor got hidden and mounted on the firewall.

 

[curt-s]

If you're using a wg actuator, that's basically the same as running a fps with boost trigger.
Except the wg method will gradually open, allowing a smoother transition, rather than slam open, as the fps would, which results in a sudden lean spike.

On rpm actuation alone, you just need to make sure your boost/airflow below the trigger point isn't high enough to overcome what the engine can actually consume, causing compressor surge.

On boost ref, your entire VE table above that psi is assumed to be both runners (ie. 1g IM-like).
I think it necessitates the use of a BCS so that you can control boost by gear, ensuring you don't run 20psi below 3000 or something in 3rd+.

I'm determined to get something out of it this year because otherwise I just have a fancy looking 1g IM that flows a couple CFM less.

 

[Justin DuBois]

One could use a vac/solenoid solution and put a narrow aperture on the actuator, (like a boost pill) to dampen the valve movement.

 

[curt-s]

Could, yes. Would be an interesting test to see how narrow of an aperture is needed to slow the actuator movement to a gradual pace.
Hmm. My guess is damn near microscopic given the size of the canister

 

[Jk's97DSM]

Funny I was thinking about this last night since I have one sitting in really good condition. I was looking up aftermarket wastegate actuators but see the problem with it needing to be somewhat gradual in activation.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Anyone know which cars had "CYCLONE" vs "ECI-MULTI" on the manifold art?

Justin

 

[curt-s]

The factory method is also slam-open on RPM and I'm curious to know how they solved the issue where their own car, the GVR4 RS, could build enough boost at low rpm in high gear to potentially surge. Was there a boost by gear setup in their ECU to keep it low until the engine was able to ingest enough air to overcome what the b16g could shove down the single runners.. ?

Mine is ECI-MULTI and was from a Evolution GVR4 or GVR4 RS... seems my motor/turbo/intake combo came on both but info is minimal on either.

 

[Jk's97DSM]

I’d like to have it open up at around 15 psi and figured a wga would make it easy but the range and minimal movement needed on the stock arm seems to be limiting the options.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I’d like to have it open up at around 15 psi and figured a wga would make it easy but the range and minimal movement needed on the stock arm seems to be limiting the options.

Any issues with a WGA holding the valve open when you need it? A vac/solenoid actuator does not need boost, but it does need to hold vacuum to work on demand.

 

[Jk's97DSM]

Any issues with a WGA holding the valve open when you need it? A vac/solenoid actuator does not need boost, but it does need to hold vacuum to work on demand.

That is just a plan I had to make it simple. I haven’t done anything yet. It just makes more sense to have a single source and at (__psi) it opens.