1G Brand new and.... Kaboom.

[YawnY]

First drive this spring to do a base tune, had driven the car in the fall to get gas before winter then parked. Ran car in the garage afew times and had no issues. Set idle, timing, base afr. Go for a quick drive.
Did a small pull, hit 7 psi and then she let go.
Brand new gates belt, brand new tensioner. Less than 3 km on it.

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[chrisman287]

What brand was the tensioner?

That seriously sucks dude.

 

[YawnY]

What brand was the tensioner?

That seriously sucks dude.

Gates belt and tensioner.

 

[danl]

Mine just did the same thing about a month ago. I got like 1000 miles in it at least.

 

[pat white]

Scarey

 

[dwb]

Did something seize, like a camshaft or oil pump? Also the belt looks a little rotten. Maybe it sat on the shelf for too long.
I personally won't run another Gates timing belt. I had one fail a little over a year ago and went back to OEM during the rebuild.

 

[chrisman287]

I personally won't run another Gates timing belt. I had one fail a little over a year ago and went back to OEM during the rebuild.

Got me worried about my Gates Racing belt

 

[Justin DuBois]

Subscribing for the failure analysis

 

[dwb]

Got me worried about my Gates Racing belt

I can't say anything about their racing belt. My failure and looks like the OP's was their standard belt.

 

[YawnY]

Did something seize, like a camshaft or oil pump? Also the belt looks a little rotten. Maybe it sat on the shelf for too long.
I personally won't run another Gates timing belt. I had one fail a little over a year ago and went back to OEM during the rebuild.

Cams are moving, did a leak down test to see how bad the damage is, since I just had the head decked and did cams springs and retainers. Have a few bent valves. I just rebuilt the engine over a year ago and have been slowly getting the car together. Today was the first time I got to take it for a ride with it mostly complete. I'll have a chance to tear it down abit more this week.

 

[Will Kellermann]

Great, you got me nervous, I just did Gates Timing, PS, and Alternator belts about 1000 miles ago. Let's hope I'm not another victim. Are there people on here who've had success with Gates parts? Wondering what the failure rate is.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Great, you got me nervous, I just did Gates Timing, PS, and Alternator belts about 1000 miles ago. Let's hope I'm not another victim. Are there people on here who've had success with Gates parts? Wondering what the failure rate is.

Myself and others have had good luck with both Gates rubber and Kevlar belts. When it comes to the timing belt just about any known name brand rubber belt will do just fine when tensioned correctly and a proper auto tensioner and pullies are used, Gates, Dayco, Continental, Goodyear, etc. I used a continental contitech belt myself for a few seasons as I was in there and needed a belt and Rockauto happened to have them for 11 bucks, good enough for vw/Audi to use oem then good enough for a 4g63, have used all the known brands in various occasions on different engines and no problem making power on them for several seasons and thousands of miles of street driving. Timing belt brand is often over thought on our platform when the belt itself is typically not the issue as long as everything is correct and quality components are used. Of course ebay no names and super cheap brands have been known to have premature failures for no reason. What many overlook is Mitsubishi didn’t have a belt factory, a company like Gates or Continental was contracted to supply them the belts. It’s been often debated on here for years exactly who supplied them but it’s often assumed to be Gates or Continental as mentioned.

In this case either the auto tensioner failed which would be unusual as you usually will experience a loud clatter from it that sounds like rod knock before catastrophe ensues but could be the case in some manner, or not to knock the op but something wasn’t correct, tensioner pulley or idler pulley bolt backed out, something was installed in the incorrect orientation, any number of things. We won’t know until it’s torn into to see just what happened.

 

[YawnY]

Myself and others have had good luck with both Gates rubber and Kevlar belts. When it comes to the timing belt just about any known name brand rubber belt will do just fine when tensioned correctly and a proper auto tensioner and pullies are used, Gates, Dayco, Continental, Goodyear, etc. I used a continental contitech belt myself for a few seasons as I was in there and needed a belt and Rockauto happened to have them for 11 bucks, good enough for vw/Audi to use oem then good enough for a 4g63, have used all the known brands in various occasions on different engines and no problem making power on them for several seasons and thousands of miles of street driving. Timing belt brand is often over thought on our platform when the belt itself is typically not the issue as long as everything is correct and quality components are used. Of course ebay no names and super cheap brands have been known to have premature failures for no reason. What many overlook is Mitsubishi didn’t have a belt factory, a company like Gates or Continental was contracted to supply them the belts. It’s been often debated on here for years exactly who supplied them but it’s often assumed to be Gates or Continental as mentioned.

In this case either the auto tensioner failed which would be unusual as you usually will experience a loud clatter from it that sounds like rod knock before catastrophe ensues but could be the case in some manner, or not to knock the op but something wasn’t correct, tensioner pulley or idler pulley bolt backed out, something was installed in the incorrect orientation, any number of things. We won’t know until it’s torn into to see just what happened.

I'll be tearing into it to see what happened, but this is probably my 5th dsm timing belt and I worked as a Mitsubishi tech for 5 years. So not sure what could have happened but everything timing related was done to the book and torqued to spec. Belt tension was correct and showed no signs of any issue. I'll post more pictures once I get the cover and belt off.

The car drove to the gas station, which is right around the corner from me, then around the bay I live on before it let go. Less than 3km total.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I feel your pain, as I am in the same situation. Mine is not a Gates belt issue tho.
Good luck on a speedy return to driving!

 

[19Eclipse90]

I’m not a fan of Gates hydraulic tensioner or water pump, due to premature failures.

Were the balance shafts still installed on this engine? If so, I’m assuming the belt was changed when you did the timing belt service?

 

[curt-s]

I've ran a few T167 belts and have a racing belt currently. I use Gates water pumps and pulleys but OEM tensioner. Haven't had a failure like this. I think it may have been a shit happened moment. The belt you got may have been sitting for years somewhere and subject to poor storage conditions..

Post up some pictures of the belt and perhaps we can diagnose failure point. If it matters anymore

Sucks to see this happen to a Winnipeg DSM.. there are few of us around.

 

[chrysler kid]

Always always always use OEM hydraulic tensioners

As far as belts go, try to check condition of them before installation. Most of them have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for 10 years

I reccomend the gates racing belt or OEM but on proper replacement intervals most should be fine

The gates racing will typically show its condition as it wears down and can give you insight on how healthy it is, as it ages. Gates also makes the greddy belt and the purple HKS belt

If you take off the timing cover I would like to see the rest of the system. I have only ever seen belt failure like that from oil or coolant damage, or pulley failure

 

[enriquez2000]

Something in the air with dsms lately... me, marty, you... all low mileage. Mine was not anything belt related... but man I hate to see this

 

[GST with PSI]

Engine rotation had to have stopped abruptly to clean the teeth off the belt. Now, that could have been caused by the valves contacting the pistons after a tensioner failure, but I seriously doubt the belt initially failed as pictured causing the damage.

Improper installation, oil contamination, and not changing the belt at the service interval are typically the cause of belt failures. Not saying OP dicked up the install, but the picture doesn't really give any clues at to what the cause was.

FWIW, I've ran dozens of Gates belts and tensioners with zero issues. For those of you "worried" about your Gates stuff, I'd simply ask if you installed it correctly. If the answer is yes, odds are your shit will have a long prosperous life up until its proper service interval.

 

[YawnY]

Engine rotation had to have stopped abruptly to clean the teeth off the belt. Now, that could have been caused by the valves contacting the pistons after a tensioner failure, but I seriously doubt the belt initially failed as pictured causing the damage.

Improper installation, oil contamination, and not changing the belt at the service interval are typically the cause of belt failures. Not saying OP dicked up the install, but the picture doesn't really give any clues at to what the cause was.

FWIW, I've ran dozens of Gates belts and tensioners with zero issues. For those of you "worried" about your Gates stuff, I'd simply ask if you installed it correctly. If the answer is yes, odds are your shit will have a long prosperous life up until its proper service interval.

I do have to agree with you, and in my 15 years working as a tech I've never ever seen a belt strip like this. The engine still moves. The cams still move. This wasn't a fire up and go for a rip scenario. This car ran in the fall, ran a couple times in the winter to move it around the garage and to listen to the exhaust I put together. Me and my friend who put the engine together did his laser the year before, and we've done 2.3 stroker years ago in his first laser. I have no doubt that we did the timing belt correctly.
I wish I took a picture of the timing side of the engine. Unless something locked up like the oil pump I have to think the belt failed.

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[Spleen8urLSX]

Engine rotation had to have stopped abruptly to clean the teeth off the belt. Now, that could have been caused by the valves contacting the pistons after a tensioner failure, but I seriously doubt the belt initially failed as pictured causing the damage.

Improper installation, oil contamination, and not changing the belt at the service interval are typically the cause of belt failures. Not saying OP dicked up the install, but the picture doesn't really give any clues at to what the cause was.

FWIW, I've ran dozens of Gates belts and tensioners with zero issues. For those of you "worried" about your Gates stuff, I'd simply ask if you installed it correctly. If the answer is yes, odds are your shit will have a long prosperous life up until its proper service interval.

I don’t say it often as someone will almost always try to argue with me about it, but I also have ran nothing but Gates auto tensioners for a long time. My reason being is I’ve never had a failure from them, used them multiple times, they look to have been built by whoever supplied the oem, and they’re new and haven’t been sitting on a shelf for 20+ years at a dealer or in a warehouse. Not saying that for sure makes them a good part or anything, but we’re hitting the point oem 6 bolt auto tensioners are running out and also hitting the point where here and there people are getting bad oem ones out of the few left as again, hydraulic part that’s been sitting around 20+ years, within the next year buying a new oem 6 bolt auto tensioner is no longer going to be a viable option. Now I will say, in my early days I’ve had the Dayco branded auto tensioners fail at about 2k miles and have seen multiple others fail super prematurely, those are one to definitely stay away from as even the body casting is notably different than that of the oem (opposed to Gates which appears to have the same casting). The point I’m getting at is whether you agree or disagree, when it comes to many parts the “oem only straight from Mitsubishi!” mindset needs to be broken as we’ve hit the era that many of these oem packaged Mitsubishi parts are going out of stock for good. I for one am not going to say “guess my new engine isn’t going together because I can’t buy an oem part, that was fun while it lasted!”.

 

[chrisman287]

I also have ran nothing but Gates auto tensioners for a long time. My reason being is I’ve never had a failure from them, used them multiple times, they look to have been built by whoever supplied the oem, and they’re new and haven’t been sitting on a shelf for 20+ years at a dealer or in a warehouse.

I see Gates does look same as OEM as well as ACDelco. Anyone ever try Preferred Components Inc? Also looks the same.

Curious to see what the failure point was here.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I see Gates does look same as OEM as well as ACDelco. Anyone ever try Preferred Components Inc? Also looks the same.

Curious to see what the failure point was here.

I’ve suspected ones like the Gates and AC Delco are the same part out of the same factory sold by different distributors, so if the Preferred Components one looks the same I’d guess the same for it as well. I do know many of the name brands sell the exact same idler and tensioner pulleys relabeled. Gates, AC Delco, Duralast, just to name a few are manufactured by Toyo-kogo or something along those lines and sold in those brands boxes, and in turn they were indeed the oem supplier for those parts. I’ve had dinguses on Facebook when I was still on there argue with me “nu uh!! The oem ones had blue and orange dust seals, those ones are green!”, but don’t consider over the course of 30 years they switched to using green dust seals as the damn original manufacturer name is etched right on them.

 

[motomattx]

I don’t say it often as someone will almost always try to argue with me about it, but I also have ran nothing but Gates auto tensioners for a long time. My reason being is I’ve never had a failure from them, used them multiple times, they look to have been built by whoever supplied the oem, and they’re new and haven’t been sitting on a shelf for 20+ years at a dealer or in a warehouse. Not saying that for sure makes them a good part or anything, but we’re hitting the point oem 6 bolt auto tensioners are running out and also hitting the point where here and there people are getting bad oem ones out of the few left as again, hydraulic part that’s been sitting around 20+ years, within the next year buying a new oem 6 bolt auto tensioner is no longer going to be a viable option. Now I will say, in my early days I’ve had the Dayco branded auto tensioners fail at about 2k miles and have seen multiple others fail super prematurely, those are one to definitely stay away from as even the body casting is notably different than that of the oem (opposed to Gates which appears to have the same casting). The point I’m getting at is whether you agree or disagree, when it comes to many parts the “oem only straight from Mitsubishi!” mindset needs to be broken as we’ve hit the era that many of these oem packaged Mitsubishi parts are going out of stock for good. I for one am not going to say “guess my new engine isn’t going together because I can’t buy an oem part, that was fun while it lasted!”.

I agree and also if not Gates then who? they make the best belts of the aftermarket and the water pumps and tensioners are also pretty hard to beat, I think that we see Gates failures because 90% of us use Gates products, and when they fail, whether due to improper install or another underlying problem, we hear about it on here and other places, I know that Mitsubishi recommends Gates belts where the OEM is not available, And again if not Gates then who? Gates makes most of the belts as it is for brands like Greddy, HKS, and even oem suppliers.

First drive this spring to do a base tune, had driven the car in the fall to get gas before winter then parked. Ran car in the garage afew times and had no issues. Set idle, timing, base afr. Go for a quick drive.
Did a small pull, hit 7 psi and then she let go.
Brand new gates belt, brand new tensioner. Less than 3 km on it.

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What was the tension like after it failed? that belt looks pretty dry and crumbly btw, where did you but it from? are you sure its not a knockoff Gates belt? and it looks to me more like a tension issue than a belt issue anyway.

 

[YawnY]

What was the tension like after it failed? that belt looks pretty dry and crumbly btw, where did you but it from? are you sure its not a knockoff Gates belt? and it looks to me more like a tension issue than a belt issue anyway.

Brand new belt from rockauto. Tension was set correctly. I'm leaning towards the tensioner failed. I'll know this week