2G Brand New Axle Seals Leaking

[jinscho]

As the title states, I just finished putting the rebuilt tranny in the car and no sooner than it was filled with Redline MT-90, the axle seals started leaking. I know with 100% certainty that the seals were installed properly, and they're OEM seals purchased from JNZ tuning. Before I go through the process of replacing the seals, yet again.. is it possible that the car just needs to be driven to warm the seals up? I only ask as I came across a mention of it in this thread over at DSM Talk (post #6): https://www.dsmtalk.com/threads/help-with-axle-seal-leak.236412/

Thoughts?

 

[pauleyman]

Just how would you bolt a 1g trans in a 2g. You would've noticed this already. Please elaborate

 

[jinscho]

Just how would you bolt a 1g trans in a 2g. You would've noticed this already. Please elaborate

Case of the trans is identical to the F5M31 I pulled out. I swapped the brackets from my old trans, onto the one I picked up from PP, as they were noticably different, but I just assumed at the time that it had come out of an auto or something..

 

[pauleyman]

1g doesn't have the mounting bosses on the bell housing

 

[jinscho]

1g doesn't have the mounting bosses on the bell housing

I honestly don't know what it could be then? It's definitely an F5M33/1 case with a 25 spline diff, and per John at Performance Partout they've never parted out a Spyder GS (which is the only other example of an F5 with a 25 spline diff that I can find..). This is what led to my 89-91 F5M33 conclusion.. but all of the necessary bosses were there to attach the front and rear M/T roll stops..

92 would have had a 27 spline diff though?.. unless it was before 6/92?... maybe??

I dunno.. I've already started the returns process for the 27 spline axles, and now that I know it's a 25 spline diff I'm going to start shopping around for a jackshaft so I can take advantage of the equal length front axles.. until then, the Spyder GS axles will be going back in once I have the seals for the 25 spline axles..

 

[pauleyman]

Why don't you check CAPS or ASA. I didn't think the spider came with the f5m33. If yiu have an f5m33 and I'm right then you don't have an original trans in your car. Both trans should have stampings on it that will tell you the model trans and year ranges based on trans code.

 

[jinscho]

Why don't you check CAPS or ASA. I didn't think the spider came with the f5m33. If yiu have an f5m33 and I'm right then you don't have an original trans in your car. Both trans should have stampings on it that will tell you the model trans and year ranges based on trans code.

The n/t 2G Spyder has an F5M31 in it.. same case, different internals as the F5M33. That trans is currently sitting on the ground next to the car as I wanted the gearing from the F5M33.

 

[pauleyman]

If you are installing an f5m33 it should have the larger axles

 

[pauleyman]

Again if you checked caps or asa you could cross reference the part numbers. I'm betting case is not the same either. I bought a turbo fwd 1g years ago that had an f5m22 trans in it. Quick glance it looked like an f5m33 but clearly it was not. Flywheel was smaller flat nt wheel. Fwd stepped flywheel would not have fit

 

[jinscho]

Again if you checked caps or asa you could cross reference the part numbers. I'm betting case is not the same either. I bought a turbo fwd 1g years ago that had an f5m22 trans in it. Quick glance it looked like an f5m33 but clearly it was not. Flywheel was smaller flat nt wheel. Fwd stepped flywheel would not have fit

See, that’s where things get even better...

the case of the trans is stamped F5M33.. I know that as I spotted it while disassembling it to replace the input shaft and shift selector seals. Also, I used a Fidanza lightweight flywheel and the clutch is an SBC SS pressure plate with TZ-B disc. All of the mounting brackets, shift brackets, and vss swapped over with zero issues.. even the flywheel inspection plate matched up with no issues. Nothing at all stood out about this leak from the axle seals until I had the original axles from the car (99 Spyder GS M/T) sitting next to the brand new axles I had just received from Rock Auto (ordered for a 99 GS-T M/T). The new axles were too big, so that’s when I counted the splines on each of them, something I hadn’t even thought of until this point.

The original axles were 25 spline, the new ones 27. Original axles fit into the new trans with zero issues, something that should have raised a giant red flag earlier, but due to the lack of info (not many people take the time to swap the tranny when doing a GS-T conversion on a 2G Spyder, they just run the F5M31 trans) I just thought I had gotten lucky. So, I googled “25 spline axles F5M33“ and the very first result was from TMZ Performance for a Quaife FWD LSD.. where the fine print instructions for ordering say “Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential for FWD F5M33-based transmissions; ... axle seals) If you have the smaller 25-Spline axles, you need to order Quaife QDH8B ...”. So my next logical search was “Quaife QDH8B” which gave me a result directly from the Quaife website showing fitment for “QDH8B. Mitsubishi Eclipse / Talon 4WD, Lancer Evo 1, 2, 3 (front) + 2WD 90-92 QuaifeATB Helical LSD differential.”. Hence my conclusion it was a 90-92 F5M33.

At this point, every seal installed on the transmission has been for an F5M33 and they’re all bone dry (with the exception of the axle seals, hence this thread was created). I honestly don’t know what else it could be?

 

[pauleyman]

If you have a small axle f5m33 and it fits in a 2g I offer the following suggestions.
I dont' know if a spyder NT ever came with an f5m33. there should be a vin stamp on the trans and you can check it to see if it's original and if it originally went to a gst. If that holds true then somebody swapped the front diff. Another possibility is the f5m33 came from another car that uses 25 spline axles. f5m33 wasn't just in eclipse. Again if there is a vin stamp on the trans find out. Replacement trans do not have a vin but the unit may still have the "xxxx" stamps after f5m33 that can give you a clue also. you'll have to dig a little.
Just to bring myself up to speed you pulled your f5m31 trans and put in an f5m33 and didn't notice it was an f5m33? I'm still a little confused on what you pulled out, etc. What has happened so far?

 

[jinscho]

If you have a small axle f5m33 and it fits in a 2g I offer the following suggestions.
I dont' know if a spyder NT ever came with an f5m33. there should be a vin stamp on the trans and you can check it to see if it's original and if it originally went to a gst. If that holds true then somebody swapped the front diff. Another possibility is the f5m33 came from another car that uses 25 spline axles. f5m33 wasn't just in eclipse. Again if there is a vin stamp on the trans find out. Replacement trans do not have a vin but the unit may still have the "xxxx" stamps after f5m33 that can give you a clue also. you'll have to dig a little.
Just to bring myself up to speed you pulled your f5m31 trans and put in an f5m33 and didn't notice it was an f5m33? I'm still a little confused on what you pulled out, etc. What has happened so far?

Yeah, I'm in the midst of converting my Spyder GS to a GS-T. It's been a years long project, part of which included sourcing the transmission in question. I picked it up from Performance Partout, John and Nate didn't remember which car it had come out of but it had been sitting on a shelf with no action for years as they sell mostly AWD stuff (this was also before they did a massive inventory overhaul so that the heaps of stuff sitting on shelves was actually advertised on their site too..). The case is stamped F5M33, but I don't recall seeing a VIN stamp with it (I'll have to check). I picked it up for 50 bucks because 5th gear had a hairline crack, which I swapped for a 5th gear assembly out of a W5M33 that was a "parts" trans that Performance Partout had laying around as it had bad synchros. Did a full teardown, replaced all of the seals, and had it sitting on my work bench while I gathered up the rest of the parts needed for the swap.

Fast forward to now, swap is done (which included pulling the 4G64/F5M31 setup for a 7 bolt 4G63t and the aforementioned F5M33) and this thread was created as I couldn't figure out why the brand new seals were leaking. Turns out, it's because of the 25 spline axles and I need the 90-92/AWD seals for the smaller spline count.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok hold up. The splines actually lined up and the axles clicked in and youre sure of this? You weren't just feeling the resistance of the seals? Have you actually driven on this f5m33 yet?
It's easy to read the stampings. This needs further investigation

 

[jinscho]

Ok hold up. The splines actually lined up and the axles clicked in and youre sure of this? You weren't just feeling the resistance of the seals? Have you actually driven on this f5m33 yet?
It's easy to read the stampings. This needs further investigation

The 25 spline axles that I have from the original 4G64/F5M31 setup line up and click in. The 27 spline axles I got from Rock Auto didn't line up and could not be installed.

 

[pauleyman]

Then my statement stands. Somebody has been into that unit or it may not be from a dsm. I'm not familiar with different f5m33 units. You either crack it and get a proper diff. Or use 25 spline axles I guess.

 

[jinscho]

Then my statement stands. Somebody has been into that unit or it may not be from a dsm. I'm not familiar with different f5m33 units. You either crack it and get a proper diff. Or use 25 spline axles I guess.

Yeah, I think that's the final results of this entire situation. I'm going to keep the 25 spline axles as that'll allow me to run equal length halfshafts once I can figure out which intermediate shaft will work with my setup. Only real positive outcome of this entire ordeal