2G Blew a headdy.

[88BB8B]

Hey everybody. Man this car is nothing but issues. Thanks to the wise help of some community members here I got it started for the first time after rebuilt today. Everything was going good. 20ish degrees of timing. Idling a little high, at about 2000rpm. Leaned out the AFRS a little as I was seeing 12.5 initially. Then all of a sudden she's a cloud machine. Quick shut her down and drain all the oil. It's Milky buddy! But otherwise looks free of metal and other debris. Smells like maple syrup, definitely just blew a head gasket within 2 minutes of idling.

I think I must not cleaned out my threads thoroughly enough prior to installation of the ARP studs. I'm just wondering, is it possible since this gasket has only run for a couple minutes that I could just clean out the threads and reinstall without removing the head? Or must I redo the head gasket now? I have an extra one, just been pulling the timing belt off this car a lot lately.

This car didn't have any head gasket issues before so I believe the mating surfaces are true. The gaskets i have, themselves, are old and kinda flaky on the outside, do you think it's maybe just a bad gasket?

 

[jdxnc]

If it mixed coolant and oil, the head is coming off. Even if it's an MLS gasket, it will likely remove the coating where it leaked, at which point it's pretty much trash. If it's a composite gasket, it's trashed.

 

[waltah]

Yeah, what jdxnc said. Plus -- such a quick failure pretty well points to a mistake in installing the head or gasket or torquing the nuts. Were the shop manual instructions followed? I've had mechanics tell me you could just figure out the equivalent torque wrench number for a torque-to-yield installation but doing to is a lot more likely to lead to failures caused by irregular/excessive friction.

 

[habitatguy187]

Is the head gasket on backwards/upside down?

 

[DSMPT]

If we assume this is a head gasket sealing issue, most likely the head/block flatness is out of spec, the surface finish wasn't enough for a MLS gasket, the head studs are not torqued enough or properly etc etc.

This car didn't have any head gasket issues before

This doesn't guarantees anything on this new build. If you torque the head bolts and have the engine heat cycled and you loosen the head bolts would make the surface distorted.
What gasket did you use? Did you check the flatness on both head and block surface before assembled? The distorted surface or improper/insufficient torque are the most common ones that cause this on a new engine.

 

[steve]

Just throwing out something else to look at, make sure your Oil Cooler isn't damaged.

 

[DSMPT]

Just throwing out something else to look at, make sure your Oil Cooler isn't damaged.

Agreed. He should determine the cause first before disassembling.

 

[pauleyman]

I agree with Steve. Why does everybody jump to head gasket with no diagnosis or testing. We've seen this before and recently. Another member said the exact same thing and it was indeed just an oil cooler.

 

[88BB8B]

I would be stoked if it was just an oil cooler, unfortunately I have no oil cooler. Its currently just looped between the two ports, I eliminated the water to oil "cooler" as I never got another one after my last bearings flowed through that thing. I'll be getting an air to oil cooler as soon as I can afford one. And again, the car quickly became a smoke machine. I was thinking if there could be anywhere else that much coolant could be mixing with the oil. But it seems like it was making its way into the combustion chambers. The plume of exhaust smoke smelled like syrup.

I checked the head and deck with a flat edge against my .002" feeler gauge. I'll check again once the head is off. I'm pretty sure I put the gasket on the right way. All of the holes lined up completely. But the outer coating was flaking off the gasket and my thread holes were not all perfectly clean. My other gasket is in much better condition.
It's a composite gasket. I do not have the surface quality for MLS.
Head studs are not torque to yield.

Is there anything else you guys think might be worth taking a peek at while I have the motor this far apart? My oil has a tiny amount of magnetic pearl dust after that run. I'm guessing it's just cylinder/ring grit. Nothing big enough to get caught by a paint strainer though.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Open up the oil pump for inspection and cleaning. It is the heart of the motor and if it is compromised in any way, replace it. Clean out all oil passages including the dead end rod throws. Just my .02¢

 

[88BB8B]

Open up the oil pump for inspection and cleaning. It is the heart of the motor and if it is compromised in any way, replace it. Clean out all oil passages including the dead end rod throws. Just my .02

Sounds like a good call.
By compromised you mean flakes of metal and debris? I doubt it could be out of spec after so little operation.
Is a fairly fresh oil pump gasket reusable? I don't think I have an extra.

 

[TerminalTalon]

Always assume gaskets are a 1 time use.

 

[DSMPT]

I'm pretty sure I put the gasket on the right way.

You can't install the head gasket flipped. Only possible is 180 degree rotated. But if that was the case, it's very easy to realized visually after assembled, and you would have seen a lot of oil coming from between the head and block and you see no oil in the cylinder head once you start the engine.
By any chance, the flat edge thing that you used to check the flatness wasn't flat enough?

 

[88BB8B]

Thanks for all the replies.

Always assume gaskets are a 1 time use.

in that case I'll probably leave the oil pump on for now. I'll cut open the oil filter though. I'm on a bit of a timeline with this car and would be best to make due with what I have on hand. I should have the head gasket done today assuming the head and block are flat.

You can't install the head gasket flipped. Only possible is 180 degree rotated. But if that was the case, it's very easy to realized visually after assembled, and you would have seen a lot of oil coming from between the head and block and you see no oil in the cylinder head once you start the engine.
By any chance, the flat edge thing that you used to check the flatness wasn't flat enough?

I saw a video where somebody showed how it can almost look like it's on right when it's backwards, so I definitely made sure it's on the right way. I have tons of oil in the head. My pressure gauge feed is off the head so I know I'm always seeing minimum pressure that's actually in the furthest gallery. A couple of my studs were not the smoothest going in. I also didn't use any copper spray.

I will do a way better job cleaning the threads and use the copper pray this time. I have 2 flat edges with 2 edges each. I'll check against all 4 edges to make sure it's flat.

I think I just djd a really bad job with the head gasket last time. I didn't realize how important the outer plasticy coating is to sealing and I had misplaced my better gasket at the time, but this gasket was seriously flaking off that plastic all over. It had been unwrapped in a garage for like 4 years. The other one is still in its packaging and looks in much better shape.

 

[DSMPT]

I definitely made sure it's on the right way. I have tons of oil in the head.

Yes it is on the right way.

I think I just djd a really bad job with the head gasket last time.

Yeah could be. Everyone has a similar experience. Trial and error.. Just take your time.

 

[88BB8B]

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Just thought I'd share what I've found.

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My head gasket looked like it's been there since the factory when I pulled it apart. It's only been on a few months and hasn't gone through a single heat cycle but it's falling apart. I could'nt identify exactly where it was leaking. It looked like cylinders 2 and 3 mainly. But that's just based on how much coolant was on the pistons.

I checked my flat edge against a bunch of peices of glass in the house and it seems straight. A 0.015" feeler gauge doesn't fit loose under the edge anywhere on the block or head.
I installed my head studs worse than I thought. Almost all of them were a chore to take out. Probably mostly rust from when I pressure washed the block. I have some brass gun brushes and noncorrosive rust remover for that.

Fortunately the gasket was only sticking to the head. I've been at it a couple hours now and have it almost all cleaned, then back together she goes. Hopefully this one seals.

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[waltah]

Learned a lot from this thread. Thanks!