Before I get started on Jackal...

[GSLENK]

I originally thought i wanted ECMlink. However after seeing Jackal in use, getting a few user opinions, and reading a little bit, and perusing the ds-map forums... Im pretty sold on the jackal/ostrich combo.

Any reason for me not to cheap out and just get ecmlink? It looks like jackal can do all that, people say it can do more? I couldnt specifically find what MORE is... can anyone hook me up with that intel?

Also, I have a spare ECU now NON-EPROM (and my original is non eprom so no breaks here). And ECMtuning is right up the street from me... So i was wondering, would the socketing convesion that they do work with Jackal/Ostrich? I would hope so...

SO to summarize, Is it a good idea to get jackal over ECMlink, and will it be compatible with the non-eprom socket conversion?

Thanks

My short term goals, to help with perspective (car is all stock now) not exactly in order:

510-550 injectors
AFPR
Fuel pump (190 or 255 idk) +rewire
MBC
Full SD setup
Innovate WBO2
Autometer Boost Guage
FMIC (probably vrsf)
HArd piping for all intake (no more rubber)
Emissions delete, at least cat and egr to help keep my 24k intake clean.

 

[91stocker]

I run Jackal/ostrich combo and love it. The speed density conversion really brings the car to life. Even on wg pressure there is a noticeable difference. Throttle response improved 100%. The install is also very easy. If you pick up the full throttle cable its basically plug-n-play.

Also it doesnt matter who you have socket your ecu. It will work just the same.

 

[GSLENK]

Great. thats what i figured. And by socket you also mean the non-eprom conversion that sockets at the cpu... correct? I do plan to go the IAT, and MAP to MAF adapter plug/wireharness. Im all about clean installations and that is right up my alley.

 

[92AWDTalonTSI]

ECMLink provides a GUI based way to tune. As well as a Speed Density harness that adapts to your OEM MAF plug. The combo is great. Do a bit of research on the ECMLink side too. I'm sure that both methods a solid. Either way you go you'll be satisfied. But give ECMLink a nice look over.

 

[brian9397gsx]

I run jackal as well I love it. Compared to my buddies link I prefer it (not bashing link at all) its alot easier to navigate and simplified not to mention cheap.

 

[91stocker]

I run jackal as well I love it. Compared to my buddies link I prefer it (not bashing link at all) its alot easier to navigate and simplified not to mention cheap.

Yea i like how simplified it is. Made only for a 1g on speed density. No extra garbage, like maf compensation, etc, etc.

 

[phunny]

Well if you purchase ECMlink they will have funding to continue to grow and give up options. Jackel being cheap/free or whatever really gives them 0 incentive to continue R&D. Not to meantion you can do more in ECMlink than Jackel.

Just my $.02

 

[bastarddsm]

I run it, and don't recommend it. It's not finished. If your creative enough to work around the bugs, and explore things that noone else is, its great. As it is, you'd be better off getting ecmlink.

Just to get my car to run satisfactory, my "jackal" is so far modded that it shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

If your hellbent on it, I suggest you get a ostrich, and start from the beginning. Use tunerpro RT with a stock bin, and start with the basic mods. Rev limit, fuel cut, inj comp, octane reset, ect.. Then do the double load maps, 2g maf, ect.. Then once you have that mastered move on to the SD stuff. That way you have a feel for how it all works and your not jumping into the deep end with no floaties, and not knowing how to swim.

I'll tell you this, Speed Density isn't the greatest thing, its great for a all out racecar that moves lots and lots of air, but it's kind of a pain in the ass on a street car.

It was a non stop battle ####ing with the VE tables. Every time you change the setup, you have to retune the VE tables. That sucked. You basically have to keep a wideband on the car at all times, and that sucks because most of em burn out sensors pretty quick on a street car.

I went to a 2g maf, and I'm thrilled. My car runs great, and the only thing I have to "tune" is my timing curve when I get some shitty E85. I spend more time enjoying my car now. Before I was non stop ####ing with it.

For me, the only cool part about speed density was the ability to vent the BOV.

 

[91stocker]

Jackel being cheap/free or whatever really gives them 0 incentive to continue R&D. Not to meantion you can do more in ECMlink than Jackel.

It used to be an open source project created by a bunch of dsm enthusiasts.

I'll tell you this, Speed Density isn't the greatest thing, its great for a all out racecar that moves lots and lots of air, but it's kind of a pain in the ass on a street car.

It was a non stop battle ####ing with the VE tables. Every time you change the setup, you have to retune the VE tables. That sucked. You basically have to keep a wideband on the car at all times, and that sucks because most of em burn out sensors pretty quick on a street car.

Pain in the ass? How often do you really make a dramatic change in set ups? Besides changing the ve's takes literally like 30 seconds. Using the formula makes it fool proof. Compare logs to current ve, plug in numbers, and it gives you the answers.

Also who doesnt have a wb in their car anyway?

To me its incredibly easy to use.

Tunerpro is much more difficult imo, since its so generic. Covers everything and 90% of it is useless.

 

[Tyeler18]

I did some research into jackal and the price vs link just wasn't enough to make it worth it. Price was coming out to around the $450 area for jackal once you're all said and done. You can get v3 full used for that price, so I personally went the Link route. Never used the jackal program before, but it sounds like it's similiar to Ecuflash (evos/3g's) which I use all the time (and prefer over link) for my 3g/2g/friends evo's.

 

[silicosys4]

With ECMlink, you can do everything you can do with Jackal, and much more. The best part about ECMlink and the worst part about Jackal imo is the online support...If you run Jackal and have a problem you can't diagnose yourself, you are basically stuck trying to find other jackal users, then sending them pm's hoping A) they pm you back B) they know jackal better than you do, and C) that they can accurately diagnose your car from however many thousands of miles away.
Most pro shop tuners can work with ECMlink.... Most pro shop tuners haven't even heard of Jackal.
If you like to tinker, and don't mind being limited, Jackal is cheaper, sure.

 

[91stocker]

I did some research into jackal and the price vs link just wasn't enough to make it worth it. Price was coming out to around the $450 area for jackal once you're all said and done. You can get v3 full used for that price, so I personally went the Link route. Never used the jackal program before, but it sounds like it's similiar to Ecuflash (evos/3g's) which I use all the time (and prefer over link) for my 3g/2g/friends evo's.

Your nuts.

Jackal - 20 (free, unless you buy updated payware version for 20)
ostrich - 100(used everywhere)
map and iat - 60

That doesnt add up to 450.

Link v3 - 545
sd bundle - 95
shipping to my house - 60

Looks like 180 vs 700 to me. Both need an eprom, which puts links price to nearly $1000. You can get aem standalone for that. Besides thats what a 1g gsx is worth. Pretty ridiculous imo.

 

[bastarddsm]

Pain in the ass? How often do you really make a dramatic change in set ups? Besides changing the ve's takes literally like 30 seconds. Using the formula makes it fool proof. Compare logs to current ve, plug in numbers, and it gives you the answers.

Also who doesnt have a wb in their car anyway?

To me its incredibly easy to use.

Tunerpro is much more difficult imo, since its so generic. Covers everything and 90% of it is useless.

Some times I change the setup daily. I'm sure that the 1hz sample rate that the jackal logger has, really gives you enough info to tune your car to 100% in 30 sec. How long does a 3rd gear pull take for you? 45sec?

It gets a little bit tougher to tune a car thats knocking on 600whp's door.

Also, have you forgotten that with jackal you have static timing once you hit about 15psi? That makes it really had to make a big power car run worth a shit.

Once again, "None of the aftermarket controllers are very good at running the bosch sensor. They burn them out very fast." That is a quote from a friend who is an engineer at Bosch Motor Sports. My first lasted about 5k mi. And it's installed correctly.


The guy asked for opinions. Jackal is an unfinished pile of shit, and its best for advanced users.
ECMLINK is ready to roll, a finished product. I'll never buy it, but its definatly better for a newb than jackal.

 

[91stocker]

Most pro shop tuners can work with ECMlink.... Most pro shop tuners haven't even heard of Jackal.

If the "pro" shop cant tune ve and timing tables i dont want them anywhere near my car.

 

[bastarddsm]

Tunerpro is much more difficult imo, since its so generic. Covers everything and 90% of it is useless.

HAHAHAHAH? Are you for real? You honestly want people to spoonfeed you everything. That 90% of useless shit in tunerpro is why my car runs 11's and still gets 25mpg on E85, while the rest of the jackal users struggle to have a running car.

 

[91stocker]

The guy asked for opinions. Jackal is an unfinished pile of shit, and its best for advanced users.
ECMLINK is ready to roll, a finished product. I'll never buy it, but its definatly better for a newb than jackal.

See thats where you make no sense. A "noob" isnt going to be making 600whp. Sooo yea, why go spend 1k on a tuner for a car that will probably end up making 16g power.

 

[silicosys4]

If the "pro" shop cant tune ve and timing tables i dont want them anywhere near my car.

Didn't say most shops wouldn't be happy to charge you the extra time to "learn" to use Jackal, and that they couldn't easily do it. Its just not a commonly used system, and most shops haven't seen it come through the door as opposed to Link. The main reason I went with Link and not Jackal, not a NEO, was simply because the person doing the final dyno tune was a big fan of Link and knew what he could and couldn't do with it, wasn't so much a fan of the Neo because it would be harder to dial in, and hadn't even heard of Jackal. I'm sure he could pick it up pretty quickly, but why bother when Link can do more and if you know what you are doing is about the same price.

*edit* I don't know where people get $1k for ecmlink. I went full boat, full V3, bought a NEW ecu from ecmlink AND had it socketed....basically spent as much money as you could possibly spend on their ECU, for a 1990 tsi, the hardest to find ECU....and I paid $750, $250 of which was for the ecu itself. You can get V3 lite from link for about the same as jackal, and you can sure as hell get V3 full used for the same amount as jackal.

Yes, when you run Jackal, you are a special flower, enjoy the challenge, and have possibly saved maybe a hundred bucks. Link is still the better option overall for tuning a dsm.

 

[91stocker]

HAHAHAHAH? Are you for real? You honestly want people to spoonfeed you everything. That 90% of useless shit in tunerpro is why my car runs 11's and still gets 25mpg on E85, while the rest of the jackal users struggle to have a running car.

It is much more difficult to get set up then Jackal, by far. When you first open tp there are 1000 windows which most arent labeled what youd think they should be. Takes alot of time just finding the right tabs to make adjustments in. Logging a dsm on tp takes a bit to get set up as well. No where as easy to get running on as Jackal. With Jackal on my car i plugged it in and it fired the moment i turned the key.

Im not bashing tp, when my cars gets to the point in making some serious numbers i'll make the switch but not anytime soon. O and our friends 1100hp boat runs on tunerpro.

That 90% of useless shit in tunerpro is why my car runs 11's and still gets 25mpg on E85, while the rest of the jackal users struggle to have a running car.

Lol that means nothing. Phils 14b car rapes yours and he tunes on a safc. So whats your point? Or the holset guy running 10's on jackal. Well maybe we could use your car for comparison, red runs 10's on a holset with Jackal, you run 11.7's on a holset and tp...

 

[bastarddsm]

Lol that means nothing. Phils 14b car rapes yours and he tunes on a safc. So whats your point? Or the holset guy running 10's on jackal. Well maybe we could use your car for comparison, red runs 10's on a holset with Jackal, you run 11.7's on a holset and tp...

apples to oranges. Where is your car? Yep, I have gone 11.7 at 122, I also put 10k on my car this year. I run a 5 speed, not an automatic. I have air conditioning, cruize and a big system. I get 25mpg on E85.

Jackal works, but its unfinished. The logger sucks, the timing ordeal sucks, the fact that its a java based gui sucks.

Quit swinging on curtis's nuts and get out there an actually make a contribution to stock ecu work.

While you jackoff's were busy touching each others shafts, I brought manifold pressure based maps to the original jackal, and even to a maf based setup. I didn't have to have a development team coddle me for months to get it done. I did this before curtis and the jackal ####s even had a clue how to do it.

So, until you actually make a contribution, shut the #### up.

Ever heard of staged Injection on a dsm? Good ####ing luck doing that with jackal.

 

[TheMadCheshire]

To the OP:

Jackal is great. I'm actually currently using werewolf. I love it. Its a little bit hard to get up and running but once it is, its amazing. I'll never go back to a MAF. One of the big points that turned me down from ECMlink was the price. Its definitely cheaper. Hak is pretty good with communication of problems. The preferred method seems to be through the forums, but mostly to help others and make them search(hmm.. sounds like a dsmtuners rule).
If you don't mind working around some of the bugs, I'd say go for it.
VE isn't a terrible thing to learn to tune, but it does take some time to wrap your head around it. Once it "clicks", its easy. Make sure you buy a wideband as well.
If you're cheap like me, may I suggest 14Point7. I love my JAW and recently bought their newest wideband for my sentra.
Goodluck, pm me if you have any questions and I'll do my best to help

 

[LandoAWD]

Drop the pissing contest BS...focus on answering the OP, despite the fact that both systems have been extensively discussed here already.

 

[H4G64T]

Here is what it has always come down for, for me. The community. The amount of resources available to you on Link is second to none. The Jackal guys will tell you they have excellent forums and support, and I am not saying that they don't. However, I promise you ECMLink forums make the price worth it. The technical information that is found there is amazing, beats all DSM sites. Because of how much money you spend to just get access to the forums, the bullcrap is at a minimum, no one wants to be banned from that forum.

You can post a log of your tune and with-in hours someone has loaded it and looked at it and has advice for you on how to make your tune better. You have technical support issues? Thomas Dorris himself will weigh in on the posts. The classifieds are filled with real good sales. Not the performance part outs you see here, where the best performance mod is a BOV.

For those forums alone, I recommend Link.

---

For 1G guys, the choice is really up to you, Jackal works great too, but for 2G guys, Link, Link, Link.

 

[-red97rum-]

Both can tune your car. Link has more features and definitely has a better/more polished GUI. Will that help you make more power? Not IMO. I initially planned on running ECMLink and while researching Jackal I came across a great deal from a guy parting out his car. If it wasn't for that I'd probably be using ECMLink. I've been running Jackal for a little over 2 years now and I've found it to work great. I've had the same wideband installed in the O2 housing with probably over 10,000 miles put on it and it still works as good as the day I installed it. My car's gone 11.4 @ 126mph and 127mph when it was 5 speed with a BEP 8 blade HX35 and a 2.5" exhaust. Just last week I ran 6.96 @ 103mph in the 1/8th and 6.97 the week before that. So there's proof right there for you that it's capable of making decent power.

BastardDSM is right about the timing being load based though. It does hurt driveability a bit as I've seen logs where I was on the last timing load row at as little as 10psi of boost. The link forums are awesome for sure, almost no BS and years of great info, thankfully my buddy has been letting me use his login for quite some time

In the end make up your own mind. Research both solutions and try not to be swayed by the folks that appear the most biased one way or another. Odds are they are trying to fulfill a different agenda, which has little to do with helping you.

 

[airmail96]

Yes it will be compatible with the non-eprom socket conversion, and like others have said the choice is honestly up to you. Jackal is the first tuning system I have ever used and I liked it for what I got and it was easy to setup, it did what I needed to do, that and I wanted something different. I have no experience with ecmlink so I can't really comment on it.

 

[big_d]

red97rum (Dustin) hit the nail on the head. They both work (and work great). Bastarddsm has some very good points though. ...the bad part is people are swayed one way or another without knowing the basics of tuning. It's tough to help someone who looks at you like you're completely nuts when you ask them if their car is operating in closed or open loop