Balance Shaft Elimination Methods?

[BoostedBeater]

I'm about ready to tackle my timing belt swap and was just wondering what everyone thought on this subject. I have read up on it but feel i still do not know enough having never done it before to make the decision so that is why i am seeking help.

I will only have 3-4 days tops to do the job on my daily driver and here are my options-

1. I can put everything back just as mitsu intended and put a new balance shaft belt on.
2. I can remove the belt and leave the front shaft in while either turning the old shaft down (no more weights) or using a stub shaft.
3. I can remove the front shaft and block off the oil passages and either use a stub shaft or a turned down balance shaft.

Which would you do and why? Keep in mind this is a DD and i dont have much down time available.

Thanks guys!

 

[92AWDHX40]

No time 3 days doubt it pull the engine to make it easier, glad i have a dd, thats a bit of work.

 

[BoostedBeater]

Right now i dont really have the room to maneuver a hoist around in the garage... Ideally i would like to keep it down only 1 day but as many as 3 would be somewhat doable, though not comfortable. I like having just in case time, hence the 3 days.

 

[dexterholland04]

I would not recommend doing it with the engine in the car...its a PITA. Too bad you are somewhat far away, I am currently down in Dayton at Wright Patterson AFB and I would come help (I did my timing belt and headgasket this summer in my puny apartment garage).

 

[BoostedBeater]

I'm a full time mechanic so thats not the issue, just level of difficulty, the unknown and not having the full shop capabilities that worries me i guess. Either way, thanks for the offer!

 

[newTSIguy]

You can do the belt job in less than a day with the motor in the car, iv done this on a few 1gs, it is a pain in the ass but iv done it in about 4 hours. if i were you i wouldnt worry about a bse right now and just put every thing back as mitsubishi intended, as it is your dd and you will have to pull the front case off and they tend to be brittle and it will take at least a week to get a new one, and there not cheap but if you really want to do it I'm sure you are more than capable of doing it within three days easy, just sayin better safe than sorry as it is your dd.

 

[BoostedBeater]

Definitely agree with that statement, thats the direction i seem to be leaning...

 

[Tanro]

I would leave the Balance Shafts in the way they are intended if you can't pull the engine. It is really a PITA to do it without the engine on a stand...

No wait... It is really more of a pita without the engine on a stand.

Getting those rear bearings in is still a bi***. Allways wondered what would happen if you just left them out.

 

[newTSIguy]

I left my bearings in and just cut the stock shafts on my first overhaul and never had any problems with low oil pressure although I have always heard that you will lose oil pressure if you don't flip your bearings to block the oil hole in the front shaft

 

[jcarmichael]

Sorry to revive this but I am pretty much in the same boat as this guy and opening a new thread is wasteful. I will have my new front case and timing belt kit tomorrow along with water pump. I got the bse instead of the belt and balance shaft so I could do the removal. but there is no way I will be able to remove it from the car. from what I was reading on vfaq you just have to drop the engine down is that correct because the lower or upper one is impossible to get out where it is at.

either way I am starting to take it apart today only have until sunday to get the job done.

thanks in advance any extra tips on top of vfaq's procedure would be greatly appreciated.

Josh

 

[stuckwithgsx]

Well i've learned recently that the stubby for the bse kit needs a groove in it for oil to pass by. If the stubby does not have this groove then you will have a few problems with bearing ...Not that I know from experience now at all

I don't know for sure if my stubby shaft has the groove in it or not but I looked at the type of kit I got and zoomed in the picture of another one and there was no groove. So double check it!

As far as doing this in the car, everyone is going to reccomend pulling the engine as it will be easier. It can be done with the engine in the car though. It's just a PITA.

Good luck!

 

[jcarmichael]

thanks I ordered mine from jnz tuning so hoping that it coems with the grove in it thats the first I had heard of that but I also haven't had alot of time to do the research outside of vfaq other then reading pull the engine everywhere , wish I had the time and resources to do that. my hope is to just fix my hg and do the 60,000 mile tune up and everything run great while I actually build an engine.

 

[stuckwithgsx]

This is all just me guessing here still. As i've stated I THINK the stubby shaft does in fact need a groove in it for oil.

These are pics i've found from ebay. As you can see one has the groove. The other does not. My guess is this is why my cheap as$ has a knocking in my bottom end

This one does not have a groove

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This one DOES have a groove

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Any thoughts? Or experience?

 

[DSSA]

Use a Mitsubishi Shaft. We won't even sell any other type.

If you're pressed for time and/or have the engine in the car, I always just leave the front shaft in there. It won't cause any issues, and also won't cause your oil pressure to rise to the point where you have to port out the oil filter housing relief plunger.


It's not too bad of a job in the car if you're leaving the front shaft in.

We offer the balance shaft elimination kit here:
1990-1999 Balance Shaft Elimination Kit : JNZ Tuning

This is 100% Mitsubishi OEM parts, not some OEM and some aftermarket.

If you're leaving the front shaft in, and need the gaskets required to do the job, we can put together a kit to suit your needs, whatever they may be.

Josh

Side note: While we do sell the kits with the OEM block-off cap, we also have aluminum disc inserts for those who have access to a TIG welder, or if you're buying a new front cover, we can always TIG that shut for you in-house before sending it out. While not a realistic option for everyone, it's what we prefer over just pushing in the cap and sealing it with JB Weld like some people do.

If it's not feasible to have it done this way, please do take the time to JB Weld the cap in place as I've seen motors with excessive crankcase pressures blow the cap out of the housing if not permanently affixed to the case.

Hope this helps.

 

[nfernotalon]

I tried to use that same eBay one and it's crap. The shaft didn't even fit in the oil pump case.

 

[AG 305]

removing the balance shafts with the engine still in the car isnt THAT big a pain. just drop the motor some and youll be fine. i would always recommend removing the balance shafts as it is cheap insurance for other possible issues you can have by it failing.

 

[stuckwithgsx]

QUOTE]I tried to use that same eBay one and it's crap. The shaft didn't even fit in the oil pump case.[/QUOTE]

Well at least you got lucky

Not trying to thread jack too much here, but i'm looking for an explanation of why that oil groove would need to be there.

Thanks guys!

 

[LiquidX]

The shaft sits in a tight hole which needs lubrication when it spins.

Giggidy!

 

[bmoha7321]

On a seven bolt how are you supposed to get to the bearing on the flywheel side of the motor? I gave up and abandoned the front balance shaft in place. I replaced the seal and installed a MAP BSE stubshaft in the rear.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Use a Mitsubishi Shaft. We won't even sell any other type.

If you're pressed for time and/or have the engine in the car, I always just leave the front shaft in there. It won't cause any issues, and also won't cause your oil pressure to rise to the point where you have to port out the oil filter housing relief plunger.


It's not too bad of a job in the car if you're leaving the front shaft in.

We offer the balance shaft elimination kit here:
1990-1999 Balance Shaft Elimination Kit : JNZ Tuning

This is 100% Mitsubishi OEM parts, not some OEM and some aftermarket.

If you're leaving the front shaft in, and need the gaskets required to do the job, we can put together a kit to suit your needs, whatever they may be.

Josh

Side note: While we do sell the kits with the OEM block-off cap, we also have aluminum disc inserts for those who have access to a TIG welder, or if you're buying a new front cover, we can always TIG that shut for you in-house before sending it out. While not a realistic option for everyone, it's what we prefer over just pushing in the cap and sealing it with JB Weld like some people do.

If it's not feasible to have it done this way, please do take the time to JB Weld the cap in place as I've seen motors with excessive crankcase pressures blow the cap out of the housing if not permanently affixed to the case.

Hope this helps.

Josh,
I'm Bringing this one back up for a quick question. It's my first time doing a balance shaft removal in over 15yrs. I've got everything off (oil pan, front case). I can't seem to drop the motor down far enough to get the front shaft out. I'm on front/rear engine mounts only, unbolted the front crossmember, and i'm still about 1/2" - 1" short. The AC compressor pulley is hitting the K-member.

I'm ready to just leave the front shaft in. is there another workaround in getting that last 1" of engine drop to get the front shaft out? If not, I'll leave the shaft in. I still need to flip the rear bearings, correct? One bearing or two?

 

[DSSA]

Mike,

Front bearings need to be offset to block the holes in the block--the rear one is fed through the shaft (no need to spin).

You can, depending on your tool/lift/etc. setup:

A) Leave the front shaft in, at that point you're less likely to have super high oil pressure requiring you to port the relief plunger port on the oil filter housing. This also means that you don't have to spin the bearings.

B) *Carefully* lower the front and rear cross-members slightly by loosening the bolts/nuts to gain extra clearance on the uni-body.

C) Cover all of the ports/etc., pull the front shaft out enough to cut the shaft into sections and remove (clean carefully when done).

 

[Mech Addict]

I did the t-belt in the car: wasn’t terrible. Both belts and all the other moving parts, water pump. Didn’t touch my stock shafts. It’s a little tight, but not like removing the steering rack. Now that’s a chore!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Mike,

Front bearings need to be offset to block the holes in the block--the rear one is fed through the shaft (no need to spin).

You can, depending on your tool/lift/etc. setup:

A) Leave the front shaft in, at that point you're less likely to have super high oil pressure requiring you to port the relief plunger port on the oil filter housing. This also means that you don't have to spin the bearings.

B) *Carefully* lower the front and rear cross-members slightly by loosening the bolts/nuts to gain extra clearance on the uni-body.

C) Cover all of the ports/etc., pull the front shaft out enough to cut the shaft into sections and remove (clean carefully when done).

I vote "A"
Cause I'm gettin old.
Matt, i did the timing/water pump in my 90 GSX in the car too. Not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[1qkfwd]

In this situation I would’ve just tossed in the balance shaft belt and saved the BSE until a day you have the engine out.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Just so I’m clear, are we calling the “front” shaft the one that we have to drop the motor to remove? And this is the one that needs the bearing flipped? Because at this point, I’m ready to just leave it in and pull the other shaft , especially if I don’t have to flip the bearing.

Edit- I just reread Josh’s reply. Looks like I answered my own question.