Anyone road coursing a FP DSM76?

[KevinBoosted]

Ive come up with the decision im going to be ditching my FP3065 this season for a HTA setup 30r, but i can't make up my mind and need some feedback from other people running similar turbos before i go spending any money, or even people who are running Twin Scrolls since that would be the only other way i would have it.
I originally was going to go with a HTA 3076 but when i caught wind i was going to need to change out my mitsu style FP Dsm Race Manifold for a T3 manifold i started to think well maybe ill just go with the FP DSM76 instead since i believe they are pretty much identical turbos just different style flanges. But, if im already going to pay for a new tubular manifold, makes me think i should just spend the money for a Twin Scroll manifold and go that way or do i wait another season for that and try out the HTA flavor this season?

So do i stay with my FP Dsm Race Manifold that will i wanna say close to never have the possibility of cracking and run the FP DSM76 which this way will be easiest on my budget or do i spend the extra money and pick myself up a T3 tubular manifold and go with the FP HTA 3076? ......or do i just ditch the whole HTA idea and go Twin Scroll?

Note: Which ever turbo i choose it will be run on a built 2.0 6 bolt with E-85.
I appreciate the feedback everyone, Thank you

 

[Gamble97]

I dunno, but I think I want that 3065 of yours

 

[KevinBoosted]

Alright now...not everyone at once

Anyone???

 

[BigBeans]

I would do the DSM HTA 76.

I'm running the FP Race manifold also. I will be doing some road racing in the spring and summer, and reliability is very important to me, so cracking is the last thing i want to deal with.

The DSM Race manifold flows very well (it's on the quickest and fastest 35R car, running 9.3 @150+ if i remember correctly). I have no doubt that the manifold can out-flow the turbo, so i don't think the performance difference to go tubular is worth the investment, especially when you consider reliability.

 

[KevinBoosted]

Very true and it cant hurt to atleast give it a try. Im not sure what im going to do to heatwrap the fp race manifold though. Maybe ill do the swaintech thermal coating on the manifold and make a custom heat shield. Just trying to keep those temps down now. FP HTA DSM76 + 2.0 or 2.1 + E85 = WIN

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

2.1L+DSM76+E85. The quick spool of the DSM76 plus the fantastic timing curve with the E85=sex. And you can give me your Fp3065. Everyone WINS!

 

[Ludachris]

I'd say it would be a good choice. The only other turbos I'd probably consider is the FP3052 or the one I have (FP3150). And the DSM76 looks to be right in that same spool range.

 

[KevinBoosted]

Well i guess the jury is in. FP DSM76 it is Now just need to get the ball rolling. Waiting to move into my new house after the holidays and then the dsm will be going under the knife. Now just where to get started on the 2.1

 

[Scott McIntyre]

Just some food thought.. These two posts suggest that the FP DSM76 is not a good choice for the road course:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152007072-post56.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152010930-post96.html

 

[Strm Trpr]

I'm almost 100% positive on this one, I'm pretty sure you can swap out the FP Turbine Housing for a any T3 housing designed for a Garrett 30R Turbine Wheel.

That is if you feel the .68A/R FP turbine housing evar becomes a restriction.... and I do mean evar!

I'm very jealous.
I've wanted an FP3052 since I first got into DSM's, and that was back in 2004.

Now I'm spending money on my newest addiction, Road Racing.
I'm dropping enough money on a BBK from Todd at TCE to buy my HTA DSM76 with all the trimmings.

I'd rather be able to stop when I need to and not have to cut my track time short because I'm boiling my Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluid!

 

[Atuca]

Note though that the DSM76 is not a good choice depending on the boost setting.

At 20-24psi is not really in the efficiency range of the turbo, so the power it is outputting wouldn't make up for the difference in lag with a 3052. I am not pro by any stretch of the imagination, but I do understand that a huge 30r on a 8psi honda is overkill in the same way you are under flowing the DSM76 on a 2.0 dsm at that boost setting. And lower boost should hlep keep you more reliable, from what I am told. Again I am planning to road course with my build, you are already doing it and should know better than me.

I would give a call to FP and see if you can talk so someone besides a salesperson, because that seemed to make all the difference in the world betwen my two conversations with them.

 

[Strm Trpr]

I would give a call to FP and see if you can talk so someone besides a salesperson, because that seemed to make all the difference in the world between my two conversations with them.

Yeah man, x2, then report back here so we all know.

On another note, I checked your profile and I can't see a mod list.
What do you have going on in the head?
Do you have a SMIM?

 

[Ludachris]

Well there we go - the DSM76 might not be all that great a choice. Tough to come to that conclusion when looking at FP's site.

In terms of the 3150 vs the 3052 - they might spool similarly, but I would talk to FP and find out which one will be best in the lower boost range. Because believe me, you don't want to be running high boost at the road course if you don't have to - the lower the boost you can run and still be in the efficiency range of the turbo, the better. It helps reduce heat under the hood and makes everything else run more reliably. I was sold on the 3052 until Robert talked me into the 3150. You have to remember that in most of the Time Trials classes and even wheel to wheel classes, you're going to have to stay within a certain HP limit anyway. So the smaller turbo you can use to get to that point, the better.

If you plan on competing at a lower level class, you'd probably be best served running the 3150 (or even smaller). If you're just wanting to have fun at some HPDE days, then the 3052 will probably be just fine. That's my view.

 

[KevinBoosted]

...and back to block 1 crap. Im going to give FP a call and have a chat with them since ultimately i do want to keep my car FP powered. I dont really have any restrictions as of yet Ludachris. Im just going to be doing HPDE this season. Im going to be gutting, caging, changing suspension and getting a feel for the setups so this way i can go time attack by the end of the year if not the following season. I will be running the car at Phoenix International Raceway and Firebird International Raceway both in Arizona. PIR is a bit faster than FIR but maybe i can make it out to Infineon in So Cal eithey way i need a turbo with fast spool that wont run entirely out of breath until 8500 9k range (i know thats asking a lot ) and yes i wanna keep the temps down...#1 goal since that is what kept my 09 season on the sidelines.

Strm Trpr my mod list is as others too long to list but yes i do have a JMF SMIM that i will be attaching to a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block. Ive been meaning to make a thread for my motor build as this should be happening very soon. Idealy a 2.1 would be badass but i might keep it 2.0. I have HKS 272s and im thinking of ordering some FP Evo beehive springs and retainers. Ive heard there close to the lightest available. Im not sure on boost range yet. Prob around the area of 20ish psi on E-85.

Again i appreciate all the feedback. Im always all ears to everyone who has been there and done that, thanks again

 

[Strm Trpr]

Right on Kevin.
Infineon is in Sonoma, CA.
About 400 miles North of LA.
But hey, if you come up, I guarantee you'll run into me out there.

Yeah, I'm going to be keeping my car a 2.0L too.

Since you are thinking 2.1L, I'm assuming 2.4L block with a 2.0L crank and long 162mm rods?

Maybe you should look into a long rod 2.0L since you're running E85.
Long rod motors allow the piston to dwell at TDC for a more efficient combustion and higher cylinder temps and pressures, thus making more power than say our standard 2.0L.
They make more mid to upper rpm torque and you'll have a fat powerband from 4k up to 8k.
88mm Crank
Custom Compression 2.3L Stroker Pistons
Either Manley OTS 156mm Turbo Tuff I-Beams or if you call John at Race Engineering, he can hook you up with any length Crower Billet Rods for $800.
He offered me a set of 156mm Carrillo Pro H-Beams with the WMC rod bolt for $825.
Call Carrillo and Barry will gladly sell you a set about $400 more expensive.
Race Eng. has a huge buy in with Carrillo and can get killer deals.
These are the rods I'm talking about.
Carrillo Connecting Rods
They are good for 250hp each, last time I checked, that's a grand at your crank.

I really like the Carrillo Rods.
They are weight matched B.E. to B.E., Pin End to Pin End and finally total weight matched to within 1 gram I believe.
And their bore and center to center tolerances are really tight too.
Down to the .0001", 1 ten thousandth of an inch.
That's finer than frog hair.

I'm leaning hard on a Long Rod 2.0L.
I'll be running Meth and 91 octane until E85 is more readily available.
They don't have pumps near me, and there are none at the tracks that I frequent, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna haul that sh!t with me.

 

[Atuca]

... I have HKS 272s and im thinking of ordering some FP Evo beehive springs and retainers. Ive heard there close to the lightest available. Im not sure on boost range yet. Prob around the area of 20ish psi on E-85.

We are going to have very similar set ups. I have hks 272s, have evo bee hives and retainers, and will probably be running 20-22 psi. the DSM76 is WAY overkill at the boost setting according to the turbo engineer there. I want to say he said it wouldn't shine until upper 20 psi range (I remeber the number 28 for some reason).

For low 20s he said you gotta go 3150 or 3052. And to conclude he said the 3052 only because of the increase in power over the 3150, and the rarity of the 3150 (none on the shelvs when I called), so by the end of the convo, with a very similar setup as you, he concluded the 3052 would be perfect.

 

[Strm Trpr]

What did he say about the HK$272's for your 2.4L?
Wouldn't the FP3's be a more stroker friendly cam set-up?
I know You're not stroking the 2.4L, but is essentially the same as a 2.3L but you're using the larger bore stock 2.4L pistons.
The 1.50 rod ratio is the exact same as the 2.3L and the piston speeds are the same as a 2.3L.

Some people have reported earlier spool from switching to FP3's or even 4R's for that matter.

A FP3052 would probably spool up in the 3000 to 3200 rpm range on a 2.4L.
Did the FP Engineer give you an estimate of spool up on the 3052 when used with the 2.4L and 272's?

Leave your 1g head stock but remove the casting flash from the runners and the lips in the bowls.
People have reported significant cfm increase just from removing the above mentioned.
The stock 1g Intake Manifold should be exturde honed to remove the casting flash as well, but that is an expense the some say is not worth it.
Later you can get a SMIM, but that will shift your powerband to the right...

 

[BigBeans]

My 3052 has less than 1000 miles on it.

I wouldn't mind going up to the larger 3065, i'm sure we could work something out.

PM me if you're interested.

 

[Atuca]

What did he say about the HK$272's for your 2.4L?
Wouldn't the FP3's be a more stroker friendly cam set-up?
I know You're not stroking the 2.4L, but is essentially the same as a 2.3L but you're using the larger bore stock 2.4L pistons.
The 1.50 rod ratio is the exact same as the 2.3L and the piston speeds are the same as a 2.3L.

Some people have reported earlier spool from switching to FP3's or even 4R's for that matter.

A FP3052 would probably spool up in the 3000 to 3200 rpm range on a 2.4L.
Did the FP Engineer give you an estimate of spool up on the 3052 when used with the 2.4L and 272's?

Leave your 1g head stock but remove the casting flash from the runners and the lips in the bowls.
People have reported significant cfm increase just from removing the above mentioned.
The stock 1g Intake Manifold should be exturde honed to remove the casting flash as well, but that is an expense the some say is not worth it.
Later you can get a SMIM, but that will shift your powerband to the right...

The HKS cam shafts would be fine if I want to keep the power band where it is at. Long as I use adjustable cam gears, I can degree them to try and promote more spool in the lower range, opposed to the upper RMP range that 272s achieve on a stock 2.0

I was told the fp3052 on a 2.4 would have full boost before 3500 rpms opposed to a pre 4k on a 2.0. I imagine that was a hard question to answer though as there are so many things that effect spool, like cams and head and intake manifold and everything.

Because KevinBoosted is sticking to a 2g head but a 2.0l, I bet we could both experience different spool times. I don't know much about DSMs or cars in general, but one thing I do know is you can't know for sure til you try

 

[KevinBoosted]

I stopped down to a buddy of mines shop out here in Arizona and we were discussing my setup. Among things discussed was a FP Green I know this turbo has a ton of potential. With an FP Green, 272 cams, and meth my buddys Evo 9 MR ran a 11.5 @ 123.5 Of course im going for road racing and not the drag strip with my setup but i just remember everytime he punched it, the acceleration was just as crazy as the gear before. The other of course discussed was the FP3052, and the DSM76. I didnt get a chance to call FP this week but i will as soon as i get a chance. Either way one of these 3 turbos will be the winner i hope. I need to just make up my mind and pick one. Im sure im not going to be disappointed either way. The experience and seat time is all im looking forward to

 

[Strm Trpr]

Kevin, I did call FP this week, and Robert actually picked up the phone and we chatted for what seemed like half a hour.

Stay tuned, there will be a HTA'd Green coming our way real soon.

 

[KevinBoosted]

Kevin, I did call FP this week, and Robert actually picked up the phone and we chatted for what seemed like half a hour.

Stay tuned, there will be a HTA'd Green coming our way real soon.

Its about time, they already have them for the Evos and Stis. I just dont know if my 44mm tial wastegate would be overkill on the green

 

[Strm Trpr]

Robert said the HTA Green would be a bolt turbo using a Mitsu Hotside.
You'd probably get a Punishment Racing 44mm TiAL Waste Gate O2 Housing.

There is a misconception on Wastegate sizing.
Low boost set-ups require more wastegated exhaust to by-pass the turbine wheel, where as high boost set-ups require less wastegated exhaust to by-pass the turbine housing.

Here's where I got the above information.
Full Function: Wastegate Sizing

 

[KevinBoosted]

^ Thanks. Thats some helpful info. Boost creep is one reason i cant wait to get off of 91 pump

 

[We're on Boost]

Robert said the HTA Green would be a bolt turbo using a Mitsu Hotside.

It'll be interesting to see what wheels and housings FP uses in this DSM HTA Green.

I managed to get Robert on the phone about 6 months ago and I used the opportunity to try and talk him into bringing out some new DSM style turbos that would get us up to parity with the evo guys. At the time he thought it would cost him too much with too little return. So this is pretty cool news!