ROAD RACING: Building a road race motor

[Greg Collier]

So when I say on a 100F day I normally see 130C coolant temps and 300F oil temps, ya think there's a cooling issue?

I'm wondering if I need to goto a different FMIC (Currently have a Big Greddy)

Like this?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=38283&password=0&sort=2&cat=500&page=1

 

[jwaked]

Slow old poop and Greg, What FMIC are you guys running to keep the turbo happy?

Also, SLow Old poop, doesn´t the 20G Frank turbo have a bit much lag for Road Racing? Don`t you need to get out of turns as fast as possible?

Jay

 

[Greg Collier]

Slow old poop and Greg, What FMIC are you guys running to keep the turbo happy?

Also, SLow Old poop, doesn´t the 20G Frank turbo have a bit much lag for Road Racing? Don`t you need to get out of turns as fast as possible?

Jay

I'm running a Dejon custom large side mount but will probably go a custom PTE (like in the picture) with custom fitment. As far as motors we're looking at a 2.4 with a FP3052 turbo...
Greg

 

[Slow old poop]

Slow old poop and Greg, What FMIC are you guys running to keep the turbo happy?

I have an Extreme Motorsports FMIC.

Also, SLow Old poop, doesn´t the 20G Frank turbo have a bit much lag for Road Racing? Don`t you need to get out of turns as fast as possible? Jay

Lag? Haven't noticed any. OTOH, my driving style is lift, brake, turn in, nail the gas. I cross the apex at WOT and, by the time I hit corner out, I am at red line and ready to shift up. If there's any turbo lag in there, I don't see it. Besides, in road racing, you are almost always running between 6,000 and 7,000 rpm, so the turbo is always running in the sweet spot.

As for getting out of turns as fast as possible, I believe in fast in, fast out, which I can do with AWD. I dunno how Greg Collier does it with a FWD. I need to talk to him about that some day. Driving a FWD fast is a skill I have not yet learned.

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

I dunno how Greg Collier does it with a FWD. I need to talk to him about that some day. Driving a FWD fast is a skill I have not yet learned.
Rich

It's called rally driving, or in todays terms "drifting" Who cares about the stinking rear end anyway

Fast is fast is fast and sometimes slower is better... it depends on the application

 

[captkirk9195]

Yeah, you don't want to ask the people at the track what it looks like when I'm in practice in the rain.. Looks like Rally school

 

[Greg Collier]

Yeah, you don't want to ask the people at the track what it looks like when I'm in practice in the rain.. Looks like Rally school

That sounds like a blast... it never rain here in California

 

[captkirk9195]

Greg, if my car is an indication, don't go FMIC. I'll know more with the cooling changes I've made recently (removed the headlights)

 

[Greg Collier]

Greg, if my car is an indication, don't go FMIC. I'll know more with the cooling changes I've made recently (removed the headlights)

Did you see the FMIC PTE link that I posted? It's probably 24" X 6" and would be more efficient then a side mount but not as obtrusive as your large front mount...

 

[captkirk9195]

From an Aero POV, that looked just as obtrusive as the Big greddy. Funny thing is (as an example) the small greddy just ends up blocking MORE of the radiator with the endtanks, and is WORSE for airflow to the radiator than the Big greddy.

 

[Greg Collier]

From an Aero POV, that looked just as obtrusive as the Big greddy. Funny thing is (as an example) the small greddy just ends up blocking MORE of the radiator with the endtanks, and is WORSE for airflow to the radiator than the Big greddy.

I'm running the drift front end with a 4inch front splitter. If I mounted the PTE FMIC about six inches above the base of the clip and angled it say 35-degrees, I would get plenty of air to both the radiator and FMIC from the updraft of the splitter...

 

[captkirk9195]

Yeah.. I keep looking at adding a splitter.. will have to get details from you some time.

 

[Greg Collier]

Yeah.. I keep looking at adding a splitter.. will have to get details from you some time.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=59829&password=0&sort=2&cat=500&page=1

 

[jwaked]

Hey Greg, is there any special reason why you would get the 2.3 L instead of the 2.1l or 2.4l that Slow boy has? I will be buying one of those soon for Road Racing also. Thanks
Jat

 

[Slow old poop]

Hey Greg, is there any special reason why you would get the 2.3 L instead of the 2.1l or 2.4l that Slow boy has? I will be buying one of those soon for Road Racing also. Thanks
Jat

I could be wrong, but I think the 1G motor only supports a 2.3 build. To get 2.4, you need a different block. I bet Slowboy can give us a much better explanation.

I got the 2.3 because that's what AMS said they could do with my motor (90 Eclispse).
Rich

 

[drivemusicnow]

I could be wrong, but I think the 1G motor only supports a 2.3 build. To get 2.4, you need a different block. I bet Slowboy can give us a much better explanation.

I got the 2.3 because that's what AMS said they could do with my motor (90 Eclispse).
Rich

Yeah, the 2.4 is a 4g64 block and crank, The 2.3 is a 4g63block, 4g64 crank, the 2.1 is a 4g64 block with a 4g63 crank, and the 2.0 is, obviously, a 4g63 block and crank.

I'm, eventually, having Mitch at Engintecs build a 2.4, because the 7bolt block I had wasn't really worth dealing with for only about 400$ cost. (machine work for the 7bolt versus price of a "new" 4g64 block through him)

 

[Slow old poop]

Hey poop! I wanna ride in spring!

Get in line.
I'm first. I can't wait to see how she runs.

By the bye, Underadar bought my 92 Talon TSi AWD last year. It was already a fast little car for a bone-stocker, and James is starting to build it up for HPDEs. He ran it at Road America in the F-Body HPDE in October, so we can list him as a future NASA particpant in the DSM class.

The photo below shows my old Talon coming off the high bank at 100+ into Turn 1 at St Louis Int'l Speedway a couple of years ago when it had 120,000 miles and stock shocks, brakes and street tires. It just goes to show you that you can run a bone-stock DSM just fine. Of course, I corded that right front tire in a few laps from all the body lean, but it was fun while it lasted.

Rich

 

[Zero Bar]

Next year I'll still be n/a. Though the car has all the handling goodies and I'm about to buy a set of V710's for it. I autocrossed my turbo Laser with just a boost controller at the beginning of this year, added a few mods throught the year but that's all.
I hope to have a lightly built turbo engine in and some big brakes for the 07' season.

 

[1LE]

The photo below shows my old Talon coming off the high bank at 100+ into Turn 1 at St Louis Int'l Speedway a couple of years ago when it had 120,000 miles and stock shocks, brakes and street tires. It just goes to show you that you can run a bone-stock DSM just fine. Of course, I corded that right front tire in a few laps from all the body lean, but it was fun while it lasted.

Just don't run more than stock power on stock brakes They CAN get hot enough to melt the seals right out of the calipers... Don't ask. Sigh. That was an expensive day...

 

[Slow old poop]

Just don't run more than stock power on stock brakes They CAN get hot enough to melt the seals right out of the calipers... Don't ask. Sigh. That was an expensive day...

The same thing happens to cheap street tires. They get hot and greasy and lose grip. It was so bad at the St Louis track (see above) that the Talon refused to turn in. I'd turn the wheel, but the car would continue in a straight line. Worse, they did not come back when they cooled off. Once they got greasy, they stayed that way.

Some advice:

BRAKES
The best thing for a bone stocker is to replace the front pads with R4 (or equivalent) race pads the day before the event, replace the brake fluid with Ford High Performance fluid (cheapest race brake fluid around), and bring a spare set of front brake rotors ($20 each) just in case you warp a rotor. Learn how to bleed your brakes, change pads, and chenge rotors in the comfort of your garage. With all that, you'll probably get through an entire weekend on one set of race pads. Learning HOW to brake is also critical. An instructor will show you how to use your brakes for the shortest possible time. Proper braking technique will keep your brakes cooler.

TIRES
If you have the coins, buy a set of wheels and mount up some high performance tires to use at the track. If not, do a little research to find out what brand of street tire works well at the track and buy a set. I ran my first season of HPDEs on Michelin Pilot street tires (on a 3000GT VR4) and they held up very well. I dunno what works well on a DSM.

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

Hey Greg, is there any special reason why you would get the 2.3 L instead of the 2.1l or 2.4l that Slow boy has? I will be buying one of those soon for Road Racing also. Thanks
Jat

I didn't want to answer you until we knew what we're gonna do. BOY... are we gonna do something spectacular. We'll probably have all the details up once the site finishes its upgrades. I'm getting kind of excited! It's been a while...

Greg

 

[1LE]

BRAKES

TIRES

Pilot Sports hold up real well on a DSM too. There's obviously grippier tires available, but I can drive on those 3 out of 4 seasons and get more than 2 years out of them with several track days each summer.

As far as brakes, just go straight for the R4-E's. I was hesitant to try them since I rally my car in the winter, but the R4-E's work better cold than even the R4-S compound. The price you pay is that rotors supposedly only last 1-2 sets of pads, but I always replace rotors with pads anyways (I don't know yet as the pads have only been on for about 2 years and I still have 2/3's of the material left! The work great and last a long time too!).

 

[mavisky]

Good news for dsm'ers in the roadracing engine department. According to NASA's new TT points list we are no longer penalized for removing the balance shafts as a "internal engine modification", it's now a no point modification.

 

[jwaked]

Cool. It helps.

 

[Zero Bar]

Good to hear. Greg, got an update for us on the motor???