Building A DSM Road Racing Series...........................

[Slow old poop]

I am real interested in having a DSM racing series. Let me know if theres anything i can do to help.

Get together with White97eclipse (he's in Washington State, too) and go to an HPDE together. If you are both rookies, you can support each other. If you are experienced at all this, you can help him. It's the buddy system at work, the best way to go racin'. What we need at this point are DSMs on track, getting seat time, running events, and building cars. You want to help? Get on track! Show the DSM flag!

You can't go fender to fender racing until you get some HPDEs under your belt, so start running them. If you're lucky, like I am, you'll find a bunch of DSM buddies out there in Washington, and you'll all go racin' together on a regular basis.

If there is a better buddy system in the world than racin', I dunno what it might be. You help each other build cars, caravan to the track together, get good and drunk Friday night (well, that seems to be the way it works out), race all day Saturday and Sunday, fix anything that breaks, and caravan home.

It's just like going hunting with a bunch of your drunken friends, except nobody kills Bambi and you have a lot more fun.

Rich

 

[Microrcdude]

i just go to the SCCA events. Im usually crew chief for bruce vollstedts #17 super production car, if anyone knows who he is, yeah im crew chief. where abouts in washington is he?

 

[speedy13]

I have no problem at all, with leaving this initial class as a 6 point cage. When Greg and I 1st spoke on this, he was thinking of more safety, and I was thinking of less cost for the beginner. I see that we both reversed our positions when we first posted to the thread. If we would want to add extra support etc., to the entry cage, on the other classes that shouldn't be to hard to accomplish.

Tom

So with this being said,this means that even on entry level dsm class racecars will be obligated to have a rollcage?If this is the case,let me know so i can save my pennies for a track car as my talon is now my DD.The first year i will most likely be giving the series a helping hand wether it be on Tech inspections,or whatever you guys may need,so you can count me in.I will be able to attend the following tracks;Laguna Seca,Infineon, and Thunderhill.I might be able to make it out to California speedway on a special occasion. On a side note,I am currently planning my first HPDE sometime in the middle of next year after i prep my car up so I can get some track time.I hope this turns into something,i haven't looked forward to a thread like this in a long time.

 

[terefic181]

So with this being said,this means that even on entry level dsm class racecars will be obligated to have a rollcage?If this is the case,let me know so i can save my pennies for a track car as my talon is now my DD.

You can do all your HPDE runs without a roll cage but when you go into any "racing class" the NASA regulations include a roll cage, as a must.


Tom

 

[underradar92]

Turbo boost will be sort of hard to not cheat with, won't it? Also, it seems like there are precious few stock dsm's left, which is why I think a lower "spec" class may be at least hard to agree on. One last thing, racing with 10"rotors?

 

[mavisky]

Turbo boost will be sort of hard to not cheat with, won't it? Also, it seems like there are precious few stock dsm's left, which is why I think a lower "spec" class may be at least hard to agree on. One last thing, racing with 10"rotors?

Turbo boost is pretty easy to keep set, put a line straight to the wastegate. It may fluctuate some, but not a whole heck of alot.

That's why we're leaving room for some modifications and it shouldn't be too hard to step backwards.

We're not making the larger rotors mandatory, but I do agree that you'd be nuts to try and race on them. I've already got the 2 piston calipers on my car and I'm looking to ditch them already after less than a year.

 

[Greg Collier]

We're not making the larger rotors mandatory, but I do agree that you'd be nuts to try and race on them.

The Camaro Mustang Challenge requires OEM brakes mandatory. Those guys are racing those big ol cars on ten inch rotors... I ran stock brakes the first year I raced and it wasn't that big of a deal. As the car gained horsepower it was necessary to gain braking power.

 

[underradar92]

Wow, I broke a rotor at a track day with neo-gens. granted they were napa cheapies, but only a few weeks old, and I was taking it VERY easy. Thanks for clearing up my questions b.t.w.

 

[mavisky]

The Camaro Mustang Challenge requires OEM brakes mandatory. Those guys are racing those big ol cars on ten inch rotors... I ran stock brakes the first year I raced and it wasn't that big of a deal. As the car gained horsepower it was necessary to gain braking power.

They're nuts too.

I may end up on stock brakes this year due to limited funds. My plan is to simply duct the holy hell out of them and hope they stay cool.

 

[Slow old poop]

i just go to the SCCA events. Im usually crew chief for bruce vollstedts #17 super production car, if anyone knows who he is, yeah im crew chief. where abouts in washington is he?

Look at the recent posters (back a few), and you'll find him. Look on the left side, and you'll seem him from Washington. (I can't see them in REPLY mode, or I'd tell you.)

By the bye, while you are at SCCA races, go by the Toyo tire truck, and see if they will sell you used 235/45-17 Toyo Prox RA1 tires for $10 each. Those tires are used in quite a few spec classes (can't remember which ones), and the dealer/truck should be happy to have you take them off their hands. Otherwise, they have to cart them back to their shop and dispose of them. They may be shaved, but you can still get several track days out of them. You can mount them on stock 17 in. DSM wheels or on 3000GT wheels and use them for HPDEs. Shoot, that's what I am running on my Eclipse -- used Toyos.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

By the bye, while you are at SCCA races, go by the Toyo tire truck, and see if they will sell you used 235/45-17 Toyo Prox RA1 tires for $10 each.

They'll do that I'm making a trip to Mid-Ohio next time to get some tires . Now to get a set of 17's for them

My dad's gonna hate me. I've the got winter tires, the falken's, just bought a set of stock laser wheels with 225/50-16 Khumo Victoracers on them

 

[Slow old poop]

I may end up on stock brakes this year due to limited funds. My plan is to simply duct the holy hell out of them and hope they stay cool.

One absolutely wonderful thing about stock rotors is that they are CHEAP!!! Like, about $20 each. You can put a new set of front rotors on for every event, and carry an old pair for spares in case you warp one. Stick in good set of race pads (Carbotech Panther Plus, Porterfield R4, etc.) and you'll be just fine. Been there, done that.

When you move up to StopTechs, you'll find that a replacement set of front rotors is $400!!! And that's just for outer rings, not the hubs. Crikies!
The cost of going racing, I guess.

Gawd, I hope we get some competition going amongst the brake vendors, so the cost of rotors comes down substantially. The way I crack rotors, brakes may prove to be the most expensive part on my car. Remember that when you think about upgrading your brakes.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

One absolutely wonderful thing about stock rotors is that they are CHEAP!!! Like, about $20 each. You can put a new set of front rotors on for every event, and carry an old pair for spares in case you warp one. Stick in good set of race pads (Carbotech Panther Plus, Porterfield R4, etc.) and you'll be just fine. Been there, done that.

When you move up to StopTechs, you'll find that a replacement set of front rotors is $400!!! And that's just for outer rings, not the hubs. Crikies!
The cost of going racing, I guess.

Gawd, I hope we get some competition going amongst the brake vendors, so the cost of rotors comes down substantially. The way I crack rotors, brakes may prove to be the most expensive part on my car. Remember that when you think about upgrading your brakes.

Rich

I've actually been considering the willwood setup from TCE, any thoughts on Willwood brakes?

 

[Slow old poop]

I've actually been considering the willwood setup from TCE, any thoughts on Willwood brakes?

Nope. Maybe somebody else does.
How much are replacement rotors?
Stopechs are going to drain the checkbook. I've cracked three of them so far.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

www.tceperformanceproducts.com

Rotor replacement costs.
13.1 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13.1 DV x 1.25 $149
13.1 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13.1 DV x 1.10 $129
13.0 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13 DV x 1.10 $129
13.0 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13 DV x .810 $109
12.2 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 12.2 DV x 1.10 $129
12.2 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 12.2 DV x .810 $109
11.75 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 11.75 DV x .810 $109
11.75 Std. Vented, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 11.75 Std. $85
11.75 Solid, Gas Slotted and Zinc'd 11.75 Solid 0.375 $85

Pad replacement costs : Willwood Polymatrix
Compound SL/SLIII NDL DL DP BSL6/FSL BSL6n
Poly A $129 $84 $72 $88 $139 $129
Poly B $105 $67 $59 $79 $115 $105
Poly C $119 $75 $75 na $129 na
Poly D $79 $65 $55 na $89 $79
Poly E $78 $65 $48 $65 $88 $78
Poly H $145 $92 $79 na $155 $145
Poly J $165 $89 na na $175 $165
Poly Q $75 $69 $49 $69 $85 $75
Poly T $65 $52 $39 na $75 $65
BP-10 $67 $45 $43 $67 $67 $67

Their road race dsm kit combines the 13x1.10 rotors with the FSL caliper for $1295 or substitute in a BSL6 or BSL6n for an additional $250.

Replacements would run you $129 per rotor, and with the compound H and A being the best at higher temperatures with A having the maximum bite in the cold your pads would only be $129-$155 depending on caliper and compound.

 

[Greg Collier]

www.tceperformanceproducts.com

Rotor replacement costs.
13.1 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13.1 DV x 1.25 $149
13.1 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13.1 DV x 1.10 $129
13.0 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13 DV x 1.10 $129
13.0 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 13 DV x .810 $109
12.2 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 12.2 DV x 1.10 $129
12.2 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 12.2 DV x .810 $109
11.75 DV, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 11.75 DV x .810 $109
11.75 Std. Vented, Gas Slotted, Zinc'd 11.75 Std. $85
11.75 Solid, Gas Slotted and Zinc'd 11.75 Solid 0.375 $85

Pad replacement costs : Willwood Polymatrix
Compound SL/SLIII NDL DL DP BSL6/FSL BSL6n
Poly A $129 $84 $72 $88 $139 $129
Poly B $105 $67 $59 $79 $115 $105
Poly C $119 $75 $75 na $129 na
Poly D $79 $65 $55 na $89 $79
Poly E $78 $65 $48 $65 $88 $78
Poly H $145 $92 $79 na $155 $145
Poly J $165 $89 na na $175 $165
Poly Q $75 $69 $49 $69 $85 $75
Poly T $65 $52 $39 na $75 $65
BP-10 $67 $45 $43 $67 $67 $67

Their road race dsm kit combines the 13x1.10 rotors with the FSL caliper for $1295 or substitute in a BSL6 or BSL6n for an additional $250.

Replacements would run you $129 per rotor, and with the compound H and A being the best at higher temperatures with A having the maximum bite in the cold your pads would only be $129-$155 depending on caliper and compound.

Todd at TCE offers a discount to NASA racers. I know he's worked with Greg Greenbaum (national director of NASA time trials) on his SRT and Greg's been really pleased with his setup. Everybody has their own point of view when it come to suspension or brakes and I'm sure there's a lot of competitive products out there that are of good quality. Everybody looks at me and says I'm nuts for spending tens of thousands of dollars on my Laser... what can I say?

 

[captkirk9195]

I've been rather pleased with Todd @ TCE. He has gone to great efforts to help me in road racing. My FSL4's actually clear 16" wheels (by .6MM, yes that's 6 tenths) though I only put the 16's on for rain (rain tires are on the 16's, race tires on my 17's)

I know in the WDCR (Washington DC Region) SCCA, There are 2 dsms, MY 97 GST-AWD (converted WWD car) and a 91 GVR4. We are both running ITE.

Running around 380 to the wheels really seems to get the AS Camaro's and Mustang's attention, and they are alot of fun to race against up at Summit Point.

Jason Neal
Captkirk on #DSM
WDCR ITE #36

 

[Slow old poop]

www.tceperformanceproducts.com
Their road race dsm kit combines the 13x1.10 rotors with the FSL caliper for $1295 or substitute in a BSL6 or BSL6n for an additional $250. Replacements would run you $129 per rotor, and with the compound H and A being the best at higher temperatures with A having the maximum bite in the cold your pads would only be $129-$155 depending on caliper and compound.

I am going to give the StopTechs another chance (I just bought another set of StopTech rotors, so I guess I gotta). I'm going to get them cyrogenically treated, duct lots of air to them, and maybe even put on NASCAR blowers. If I crack these rotors again, then it may be time to find another solution, such as TCE's stuff.

Yes, I know, maybe it's me. Maybe I brake too hard, and break brakes. But I don't have ABS and I don't lock up the tires, so what could be wrong with my braking? My theory is that you are either standing on the gas or standing on the brakes...anything else, you aren't gong fast enough.
Rich the Rotor Breaker

 

[Greg Collier]

I am going to give the StopTechs another chance (I just bought another set of StopTech rotors, so I guess I gotta). I'm going to get them cyrogenically treated, duct lots of air to them, and maybe even put on NASCAR blowers. If I crack these rotors again, then it may be time to find another solution, such as TCE's stuff.

Yes, I know, maybe it's me. Maybe I brake too hard, and break brakes. But I don't have ABS and I don't lock up the tires, so what could be wrong with my braking? My theory is that you are either standing on the gas or standing on the brakes...anything else, you aren't gong fast enough.
Rich the Rotor Breaker

It definitely took me awhile (and I don't know how many flat spotted tires) to learn the correct braking technique with my Stop Techs. At this point though I wouldn't have anything else. I've pushed the brakes beyond normal braking points without a problem, as far as your rotors go, all I can think is a bad batch from the manufacturer or ? I went from the RRE big brake conversion to Stop Techs via a sponsorship, not really having to go through any learning curve. I was fortuneate...

 

[underradar92]

Gosh, I was gonna get stoptech's this winter, but now I'm thinking otherwise! Do TCE's require a master cyl. swap? I couldn't find any mention of it on their website. (Maybe we are getting off subject a bit, new thread?)

 

[drivemusicnow]

yeah.. still on the off-topic ness..

Greg/Rich Do you think the something with the "heavy" nature of your car could be what is cracking the rotors? Do you have any pictures of these? (I remember you posting a picture before of a broken rotor, but I didn't think it was a stoptech) Did you try talking to stoptech and saying, "whats up with this?"

I honestly think that the stock "upgraded" DSM rotors are extremely nice for the money because you can get a full set of spares for under 100$ This is REALLY helpful while doing HPDEs and such. Porterfields R4s/ R4Es and a fresh set of rotors can do wonders!

Once you step up to "competition" either racing or time trialing, a big brake "kit" is a good thing to spend your money on.

 

[Greg Collier]

yeah.. still on the off-topic ness..

Greg/Rich Do you think the something with the "heavy" nature of your car could be what is cracking the rotors? Do you have any pictures of these? (I remember you posting a picture before of a broken rotor, but I didn't think it was a stoptech) Did you try talking to stoptech and saying, "whats up with this?"

I don't have this problem nor do the half dozen of DSM people I know of who run Stop Tech's. John Mueller for one, has a heavy acceleration and braking tempermant. He as well as Scot Gray helped to develop the Stop Tech package for the DSMs. They've always talked about the cracking problems with the drilled rotors, but never the slotted ones.

I honestly think that the stock "upgraded" DSM rotors are extremely nice for the money because you can get a full set of spares for under 100$ This is REALLY helpful while doing HPDEs and such. Porterfields R4s/ R4Es and a fresh set of rotors can do wonders!

I agree... When the day comes that you'll need a different brake package you'll know.

Once you step up to "competition" either racing or time trialing, a big brake "kit" is a good thing to spend your money on.

I again agree... "don't" spend the money until you need to.

 

[Zero Bar]

This is great. I've been autocrossing in SCCA for a few years now and have been thinking about getting into road racing. An all DSM class would be great, other than a GVR4 I am the only dsm at my local autox, I would love to see more and compete head-to-head with other dsm's.
Mavisky, if you do make it to Mid-Ohio for an event let me know. I'm only an hour away from there and would love to do an HPDE, and it would be a great help to have someone that has a little more experience then me.
I'm in for this, let me know where to be and I'll be there. I just bought an n/a car that has a cage and some other goodies(turbo engine going in next winter), with the rest of the safety gear and some schooling I'm ready to rock!

 

[Slow old poop]

yeah.. still on the off-topic ness..

Greg/Rich Do you think the something with the "heavy" nature of your car could be what is cracking the rotors?

I dunno. I have a 3200 lb steel AWD Eclipse and Greg has a 2000 lb Laser.
Anybody else crack Stoptech rotors?

Did you try talking to stoptech and saying, "whats up with this?"

Yes, but for some reason he has stopped replying to my emails. Maybe it's my e-breath.

He's not the only vendor like that. Ground Control is unreachable. With some vendors, it's like, "Did you win anything? No? Then go away until you win something and then maybe I'll talk to you."
\
Well...it certainly seems that way, anyway.

Rich

 

[drivemusicnow]

I dunno. I have a 3200 lb steel AWD Eclipse and Greg has a 2000 lb Laser.
Anybody else crack Stoptech rotors?



Yes, but for some reason he has stopped replying to my emails. Maybe it's my e-breath.

He's not the only vendor like that. Ground Control is unreachable. With some vendors, it's like, "Did you win anything? No? Then go away until you win something and then maybe I'll talk to you."
\
Well...it certainly seems that way, anyway.

Rich

Look at the "standings" for the NASA time trials in the midwest.

Basically, show up to 3 or more races... and you've won which ever of the classes you're in (you'd be in B? or C?)

Then call back and say Quote: I'm the NASA Midwest region Time trial champion in the 3rd highest class as well as being crucial in creating a new DSM road racing series... Give me free stuff! :endquote

It's at least a little more convincing

I'm sorry about the trouble though.