Building A DSM Road Racing Series...........................

[Slow old poop]

how are you going to tell the engine thats been "certified" versus the one that hasn't? (as in, I have 2 engines built, one to spec, one with more than is allowed, and you can't tell which of the two engines I put in the car.

Serial numbers on the head and block? Don't they all have numbers?

Besides, if you have enough money to build two engines so you can cheat, you wouldn't be running in our amateur classes anyway. Maybe if it was a real professional series for TV, or the SU class, people might cheat, but not for points and trophies.

I was just trying to simplify things.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

I'm not sure how many people have the money for "spec" motors. It would be fairly easy to tell what they are running by doing a simple drop of the oil pan and compression test if anyone wanted to really protest.

I think we need to agree on what makes up the basic class first before we worry about the next highest class, by building the classes in succession it should make it reasonably easy to make each consecutive class. I do know one thing though and that's that I probably won't be ready for class A right away so I'll let someone else figure out what happens there. I'm more concerned right now with getting the base class and then the next class figured out as well.

Another thought I had would be to simply use a points system like NASA's but use a much larger point spread Say 0-300 instead of there 0-80 so we could put some serious weight on certain items like r compound tires and larger hp engines.

 

[Slow old poop]

I'm not sure how many people have the money for "spec" motors. It would be fairly easy to tell what they are running by doing a simple drop of the oil pan and compression test if anyone wanted to really protest.

A short block rebuild at Automotorsports (AMS) is $2400 for forged pistons, forged rods, and other race stuff. I don't think that's unreasonable or too expensive for a race motor. A stage IV p&p at CFM is under $400. That's not unreasonable either.

I envision people running the stock class in old beater motors with 150,000+ miles until they break them, and then they will rebuild the motors for road racing.

When ANYBODY starts seriously thinking about a modded motor, they most likely won't try to rebuild it themselves, or P&P the heads themselves. They'll go to a pro like AMS or CFM and pay to have it done right. I am having mine done at AMS, even though I have Mike the Mechanic, the world's greatest tuner, on my team. Mike says that kind of work is best left to the pros, and I think we probably all know that, too.

Having a spec motor doesn't mean that folks can't build their own motors, it just means that motors built to the spec and certified by a shop don't have to be torn down. It also means that, if you have one built to spec, it will probably last longer and be more reliable than anything you can build yourself, because we'll spec in tried and true components. There's no real mystery to building a DSM motor, and no secrets that generate gobs of horsepower (except a stroker). A spec motor would just list out everything you should be doing to it anyway, and then documenting that it was done.

As near as I understand things, the real trick is in the tuning. Building a good short block just keeps it from exploding.

We could probably have a separate forum on spec motors.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

There's no real mystery to building a DSM motor, and no secrets that generate gobs of horsepower (except a stroker). A spec motor would just list out everything you should be doing to it anyway, and then documenting that it was done.

As near as I understand things, the real trick is in the tuning. Building a good short block just keeps it from exploding.

These are why I build all of my own motors. The only failure I've had in the last two was a tuning failure. I've got no problem building a motor myself to "spec" and would rather save the money on the upfront cost to have it torn down and inspected.

Personally I don't think the motor would need to be modded unless you're running in the top two classes. Maybe a set of upgraded cams and removing the balance shafts for safety reasons, but that's all a modest engine should really need besides a fresh set of rings and bearings. Then again I'm speaking from a fwd standpoint where anything over 350hp = instant tire spin in the first two gears and 3rd gear while turning. Now road racing slicks and an lsd would help, but my understanding is that we'd be running something like Toyo RA-1's or something.

Now I do have some communication with Tire-Rack through my dealership so maybe we could convince them to cut us a deal on a spec tire size from either Hoosier or Khumo in certain tire sizes. Say a 225 tire for the lower class, 245 for the A & B class and obviously whatever you want for SU. Maybe something like Hoosier's R3S05 tires. They make some nice dsm sizes such as 225/50-16 for the guys on 16" wheels in the stock class, 245/40-17 for the bigger classes, all the way up to 275/40-17 for those wanting to put some serious rubber on the road with fender flares similar to Greg's car. They've also got a 245/35-18 and a 275/35-18 which could both be made to work as well, hell the 285/30-18 would work if you could fit some seriously wide wheels.

 

[drivemusicnow]

I'm not sure how many people have the money for "spec" motors. It would be fairly easy to tell what they are running by doing a simple drop of the oil pan and compression test if anyone wanted to really protest.

I think we need to agree on what makes up the basic class first before we worry about the next highest class, by building the classes in succession it should make it reasonably easy to make each consecutive class. I do know one thing though and that's that I probably won't be ready for class A right away so I'll let someone else figure out what happens there. I'm more concerned right now with getting the base class and then the next class figured out as well.

Another thought I had would be to simply use a points system like NASA's but use a much larger point spread Say 0-300 instead of there 0-80 so we could put some serious weight on certain items like r compound tires and larger hp engines.

I'm also fairly skeptical of a spec motor. Even so, that will come later. I am intrigued by the 0-300 point scale. problem would be that actually creating this system would be hugely difficult.

I think the biggest questions in my mind that need to be answered pertain to the "stock" class. Please post your opinions:

After the downpipe, should we create any restrictions?
(My thoughts. I think we should say it has to exit after the rear axle, and leave it at that.)

Should the "hacked" mass air flow sensor be allowed?
(I would think so as it is a "free" mod)

What limitations exist for injectors?
(I say must be stock 450s)

Are trans coolers/engine coolers allowed?
(I would think they would, for longevity, however these do add some cost)

How should we set the minimum weights?
(I think EITHER: specified amount of weight under stock "curb weight"
OR just straight weight as in fwds =2800 AWDs = 3000)

 

[pnishr]

As was mentioned above, there shouldn't be a problem with upgraded internals or long block work. I had a race block built 'cause i spun a bearing. and a couple of my valves were bent, so i got a port/polish and nitrided valves. but I still run a t25, so i don't see where that should disqualify me from the lowest/lower classes of racing. I just don't like to fix/upgrade twice. if anything, the headwork could slow my spool.

Also, I don't see that porting should be disallowed on the intake/exhaust/and O2. this COULD qualify as a free mod to anybody with balls, a bit, and lots of time. I think ANYTHING that's a free mod should be allowed in stock class.

Just my thoughts. I'm so glad this was started. I'm all about the road race. Thanks all for the input. Let's get this thing going!

 

[Quasimondo]

I'm also fairly skeptical of a spec motor. Even so, that will come later. I am intrigued by the 0-300 point scale. problem would be that actually creating this system would be hugely difficult.
I am too. I'm going to look at the rules for the spec-Miata class, but if I'm not mistaken, their 'spec' engine is stock. I'll check what the rules for the SE-R and Honda classes are too. If this is going to be designed to get people in on the action, shelling out $2800 might be seen as a barrier.

I think the biggest questions in my mind that need to be answered pertain to the "stock" class. Please post your opinions:

After the downpipe, should we create any restrictions?
(My thoughts. I think we should say it has to exit after the rear axle, and leave it at that.)
I agree

Should the "hacked" mass air flow sensor be allowed?
(I would think so as it is a "free" mod)
I disagree. Hacking the mas was a mod intended to get around fuel cut. If we're limiting the boost to stock levels, there should be no reason to hack the MAS. If you're getting fuel cut at that boost level, then you have intake leak issues to deal with.


What limitations exist for injectors?
(I say must be stock 450s)
I say stock too.

Are trans coolers/engine coolers allowed?
(I would think they would, for longevity, however these do add some cost)
I Agree.

How should we set the minimum weights?
(I think EITHER: specified amount of weight under stock "curb weight"
OR just straight weight as in fwds =2800 AWDs = 3000)[/QUOTE]
The 2800/3000 rule seems better, since curb weight usually is a car with full street trim. Anything you pull, seats, carpets, etc. would automatically incur a penalty.

I think the stock class should focus more on suspension and brakes than engines. Leave the engine stock, save for an UICP and exhaust (did we come to an agreement to whether it's cat-back only, or will the downpipe be included?) and make allowances for upgrades to the suspension, brakes, and weight reduction down to the minimum limits. I think that if you keep the engine mods to a minimum, then the field will be more competitive because it will rely more on driver skill than on the car's ability to make power.

 

[Greg Collier]

What do you guys as individuals want to build for the track? There may be a lot of similarities (or may not). Stop thinking like race directors and start thinking like racers.

The stock class has to be totally stock engine wise, add non-coil over suspension for handling, go up to 7 x 17 rims, add aero body stuff (maintaining weight restrictions) if you have the money, run a spec Toyo tire (get the benefits of a sponsor), tear out the interior and add safety requirements, and you've got a race car...

The largest (by number of cars) race groups out there are the low horsepower, cheap to build and maintain cars. This is what is going to build a series.

For people like Rich and yourselves, build a (hypothetical) car together or as individuals. If you're not at Rich's level build another hypothetical car of lesser modifications.

You've got to have an idea of a car from the ground up to work from...

Just this old man's 2 cents

 

[terefic181]

I just received the return E-mail from Ryan Flaherty-(NASA National Chairman), and some of it is news to me also. It looks as if NASA does not allow internal mods to the engine in the PS-0 class. That, of course means if you have any internal mods, it's off to SU , the way it's set up at the moment. I will post today's E-mail, along with my previous communications, on both this thread and Rich's thread, because I think it will probably apply to both.


Tom

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

The thread was so long I could not get through it but the gist is that people don't really know what to do. Let me help to articulate the best process

a) Run HPDE as much as possible
b) Keep the car as stock as possible and drive until an instructor tells you that you are very competent.
c) Run a few Time Trial events (after being approved to run in that group) and get a taste of competition
***Option (If you want to see how good you are, ask one of the top drivers or instructors to lay down some fast laps in your car to compare where you driving level is)
d) If you want to go wheel to wheel racing, you need to take one of the approved competition schools and have a race prepped car.
- This car does not need to be modified except for safety items. In fact, I would suggest NOT to prep it to the max performance level before gaining some actual racing experience
e) By this point, you know the group, class speeds, general driver capabilities, and have figured out your fixed cost to participate in a weekend.
f) Then decide how serious you want to get and modify the car accordingly.

To answer your question with regard to class. NASA Pro Sedan is an accommodation for SCCA IT prepped cars. We added the PS"0" class for cars that are not classified in IT and some turbo cars as well. Thus, a stock prepared turbo car like a Eclipse or Evo would be PS0 so long as they do not exceed IT prep levels which is simply suspension, intake and header. All internal engine parts must be OEM and the car needs to run stock boost levels. Anything beyond that is Super Unlimited.

As for the other ideas about mapping some race classes to align with our Time Trial rules, I must admit I like the idea. I don't think it would be a 2006 rule but it is certainly something we will put on the radar screen and give us something to think about. Thanks for the input.

PS. Some good links below
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html
http://www.nasa-tt.com/
http://www.nasaproracing.com/resources.html

Regards,

Ryan Flaherty
National Chairman
http://www.nasaproracing.com


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: tdixon [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 9:30 AM
To: Evyan Ruiz
Subject: Re: Class structure


Evyan,

Please forward this URL to Ryan as well, so he has a better idea of what has transpired on the thread, since my initially contacting him.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207001&page=1&pp=25.

I hope everything went well at Thunderhill.

Thanx,

Tom
#107905
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Evyan Ruiz
To: tdixon
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Class structure


Hi Tom,

Ryan is away at the 25 hour Enduro at Thunderhill until Monday. I will send him your email then.

Best regards,

Evyan M. Ruiz
NASA SoCal Registrar
s s s s s s s s
Phone s 310-772-8202
Fax s 310-943-1766
www.nasaproracing.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tdixon [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Class structure


Ryan,

How are you doing?

I am on DSM (Diamond Star Motors) board and the question has come up as to the NASA class for these cars, across the country. They are '90-99 turbo'd Eclipses, Talons, and Lasers. I know we discussed this in '04 and you told me, at that time, that mine would be in PS-0. Is that still the case for these cars that match up with the SCCA - ITE rules, or have their been any changes?

If you could write me back with this information I'll post it to the DSM site.

Thank's Ryan,

Tom Dixon
#107905

 

[drivemusicnow]

Soo here is my rendition of putting together the "stock" class. Its very similar to the previous two lists, with some small significant changes. (I repeat myself a lot on the "stock limitations" I think we can take those out and ONLY list the things that are allowed to be modified, however for right now, I think it drives home the idea of what is and isn't allowed.

DSM Cup
Racing classes for Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Galant VR-4 and Plymouth Laser

ALL cars must incorporate at least the minimum level of safety equipment required and regulated by the NASA Club Codes & Regulations (see www.nasaproracing.com/rules.html).

This series is divided into 4 racing classes, DSM-C, DSM-B, DSM-A, and DSM-U. Each class has a separate set of rules as defined below. Good rule to keep in mind: If it is not clearly stated that you can do it, you can't.

DSM-C
(Spec DSM, car must be completely stock with exception to longevity, aerodynamics, and maintenance items)

Required Stock Limitations
Stock 4G63 engine except 2G pistons in a 1G (.02 overbore maximum)
Stock Head (Cams, Cam gears, Valves, etc)
No head, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, or O2 sensor housing porting
Stock wheel base
Stock transmission and gear ratios
Stock Differentials (May upgrade rear differential to stock LSD type as was OEM on some makes)
Stock boost control mechanism (or required to run direct to waste gate?)
Stock ECU with no modifications (no chips, no piggyback systems)
Stock 14b (no porting or clipping)
Stock front and rear glass
Stock O2 sensor housing
Stock MAF (no "hacking" allowed)
Stock down pipe
Stock throttle body
Stock ignition
Stock fuel rail
Stock fuel regulator
Stock fuel injectors
Stock intake manifold



Modifications allowed:
Radiator, Oil cooler, Trans oil cooler all unrestricted
Aerodynamics- wings, dams etc. unrestricted
Spark Plugs and wires
Mitsubishi made Cast exhaust manifolds allowed (1g, 2g, and Evo3)
Stock UIC pipe or aftermarket no larger than 1.5"
Cat back exhaust allowed
Any point cage even through firewall
Any air filter (must remain in stock location)
May modify air filter housing
Any fuel pump
Fuel must be un modified pump fuel (race)
Strut braces are allowed, must not be triangulated to firewall
Stabilizer bars (anti-sway) are allowed must be less than 1 inch in diameter.
All emissions are removable - Vacuum lines, Blocked EGR, no cat, etc.
Suspension – Any non-adjustable struts, any springs
Any Battery Position (must be legal as per NASA CCR)
1G/2G "Stock brake upgrade" allowed
Any brake rotor and pad (must keep stock sized rotors)
Balance shafts removal

Max wheel size of 17 x 7
Required Spec tires of BRAND, TIRE, maximum manufacturer width of 225.

Weight requirements:
FWD cars must weigh at minimum 2800 lbs, AWD cars must weigh at minimum 3000 lbs.

All weights to be verified WITH driver, AFTER race is completed​

Anything need to be changed/added/modified? I do believe that these cars would fit into the PS-0 class, but I think a DSM class would most likely get more attention/people out racing.

 

[terefic181]

I believe, as well, that it will be much better to go with a NASA DSM group, rather than any PS-0 rout. The main thing being this puts the class control into NASA's and our hands, rather than into the control of another sanctioning body, as well as, it looks as if PS-0 has stayed as a, pretty much, completely stock engine class.

Tom

(Edit) addition - Greg, I think that's looking pretty good. One thing we need to look at is the 1.5" size on the UIC. That was a guess on my part. I haven't even seen one in a while, but I think that size, should be close. If someone has one around grab the diameter off it.

 

[mavisky]

I believe, as well, that it will be much better to go with a NASA DSM group, rather than any PS-0 rout. The main thing being this puts the class control into NASA's and our hands, rather than into the control of another sanctioning body, as well as, it looks as if PS-0 has stayed as a, pretty much, completely stock engine class.

Tom

(Edit) addition - Greg, I think that's looking pretty good. One thing we need to look at is the 1.5" size on the UIC. That was a guess on my part. I haven't even seen one in a while, but I think that size, should be close. If someone has one around grab the diameter off it.

I think that's a real good start. I only see 3 potential problem areas with what you have and 2 more that need to be hashed out.

1. Stock downpipe - These rust out obviously and it may be hard to come up with another stock one in good shape as they're no longer produced by the manufacturer. Maybe allow a 2.5" dp ??

2. Unlimited aero - Maybe we should take a note from SCCA's autox pages here and use something like a 10sq/ft rule so we don't end up with dsm's running around with Outlaw Midget style wings on the roof. Also not allow any sort of undertray from the core support back. If this class was to get competitive the aero package could play a very very big role between the teams on a tight budget and those with more funding.

3. Unlimited cage - Same here. An unlimited cage would allow triangulation, gusseting, and could lead people to essentially build a tube frame car with a dsm body around it that weighs in at 3000pounds.

Now for those that we still need to figure out.

1. Placement of ballast weight - I'm sure there's some rules out there pertaining to exactly how this weight needs to be located and secured so as not to become a projectile.

2. Suspension - Am I to believe that we're running unlimited suspension in our spec class? It seems to me like we should limit the setup to stock style springs and adjustable shocks, as in no adjustable coilovers. Also we do need to mandate of course that the suspension mounting points cannot be altered from their factory locations.

 

[drivemusicnow]

I think that's a real good start. I only see 3 potential problem areas with what you have and 2 more that need to be hashed out.

1. Stock downpipe - These rust out obviously and it may be hard to come up with another stock one in good shape as they're no longer produced by the manufacturer. Maybe allow a 2.5" dp ??
Thats a darn good question. While downpipes aren't all that expensive, it is a significant upgrade from "stock". I do see the problem if you cannot find a stock replacement.
2. Unlimited aero - Maybe we should take a note from SCCA's autox pages here and use something like a 10sq/ft rule so we don't end up with dsm's running around with Outlaw Midget style wings on the roof. Also not allow any sort of undertray from the core support back. If this class was to get competitive the aero package could play a very very big role between the teams on a tight budget and those with more funding.
I'm not familiar with the rule, but that was one of my concerns as well. A well engineered aero kit (read expensive) can have a significant effect on lap times
3. Unlimited cage - Same here. An unlimited cage would allow triangulation, gusseting, and could lead people to essentially build a tube frame car with a dsm body around it that weighs in at 3000pounds.
I don't like restricting "safety" things, even if it does add significantly to the chassis stiffness. Any ideas on how we could limit it while maintaining the ability to make your car as safe as possible? "
Now for those that we still need to figure out.

1. Placement of ballast weight - I'm sure there's some rules out there pertaining to exactly how this weight needs to be located and secured so as not to become a projectile.
I asked this in a previous post. Greg said that HC requires all ballast to be place in the passanger seat area. They also limit to a maximum of 150 lbs ballast. We could set a 200lbs limit and 50/50 rule where 50% of the weight must be in the passanger seat area, and the other 50% may be placed anywhere? KISS method on this one though.

2. Suspension - Am I to believe that we're running unlimited suspension in our spec class? It seems to me like we should limit the setup to stock style springs and adjustable shocks, as in no adjustable coilovers. Also we do need to mandate of course that the suspension mounting points cannot be altered from their factory locations.

Not as it was written, I put in the limit of "non adjustable shocks" and any springs. no coilovers, camber plates, or slotted mounts allowed. (essentially, you can replace the shocks with oem equiv. Springs may be lowering/performace springs.

The one question I had with this is the fact that it allows someone to put racing bilsteins on. Maybe limit it such that they have to be "bolt on" non adjustable shocks?

I've got an upper intercooler pipe at my house I can measure. Does anyone offer an off the shelf part that is stock sized though? I think all of them are at least 2 inches.

 

[Ludachris]

What do you guys as individuals want to build for the track? There may be a lot of similarities (or may not). Stop thinking like race directors and start thinking like racers.

The stock class has to be totally stock engine wise, add non-coil over suspension for handling, go up to 7 x 17 rims, add aero body stuff (maintaining weight restrictions) if you have the money, run a spec Toyo tire (get the benefits of a sponsor), tear out the interior and add safety requirements, and you've got a race car...

The largest (by number of cars) race groups out there are the low horsepower, cheap to build and maintain cars. This is what is going to build a series.

For people like Rich and yourselves, build a (hypothetical) car together or as individuals. If you're not at Rich's level build another hypothetical car of lesser modifications.

You've got to have an idea of a car from the ground up to work from...

Just this old man's 2 cents

I think the stock class is probably pretty easy to figure out - all OEM parts, and virtually stock all around (with OEM swaps allowed).

What I would like to race, and what I'd think would make a great DSM class is the next class up from stock. The class would be stock engine, but allows slightly more boost, turbo-back 2.5" exhaust (O2 eliminator), ported 2g exhaust manifold, bigger I/C piping, ported 14b turbo, modified factory ECU (DSMlink), coilover suspension, poly bushings, swaybars, strut bars, big brakes, etc, and 100-150 lbs. lighter than the stock class weight. Obviously, this class will require a bit more money to be competitive in, but man, this would be the sweet spot for our cars in my opinion.

Again though, we'd need to get a bunch of people racing in the stock classes before the 2nd class can even be created. Most people who'd be participating still need to go out and do 5-10 HPDE days just to get to the point where they're ready for wheel to wheel racing. It will take longer to get enough DSMers qualified to race than it will to get the rules finalized and the cars prepped.

 

[Greg Collier]

I think the stock class is probably pretty easy to figure out - all OEM parts, and virtually stock all around (with OEM swaps allowed).

Again though, we'd need to get a bunch of people racing in the stock classes before the 2nd class can even be created. Most people who'd be participating still need to go out and do 5-10 HPDE days just to get to the point where they're ready for wheel to wheel racing. It will take longer to get enough DSMers qualified to race than it will to get the rules finalized and the cars prepped.

This is why Ludachris is called a "Legend".

What will most likely happen is that two classes will approved. DSM Stock and DSM Unlimited both are no brainers, if this is somewhat successful in the first or second year, intermediate classing will be a sure thing. People like Rich could run unlimited for the first year and then as other classes are approved, fitment will come...

 

[Slow old poop]

What will most likely happen is that two classes will approved. DSM Stock and DSM Unlimited both are no brainers, if this is somewhat successful in the first or second year, intermediate classing will be a sure thing. People like Rich could run unlimited for the first year and then as other classes are approved, fitment will come...

As long as YOU aren't running in MY DSM Unlimited class in the Midwest, that will suit me just fine. There are not any DSMs prepared to your SU level around here, so I'll be lonely out there. It's no fun being the only car in the class. But if DSM Stock gets more DSMs on track, that is a very good thing. Then, it will only be a matter of time before they will want to mod up and go faster, so we'll need an upgrade class between Stock and Unlimited. Maybe by this time next year, we'll have several dozen DSMs running DSM Stock, HPDEs and TTs, many wanting to move up a class, and we can go through this all over again in defining a middle class called, say, DSM Modified.

This has been a very good exercise, and I agree with just about everything you guys have come up with. Such a program as you have defined is bound to get DSMs coming out of the woodwork.

Still, you haven't solved my problem of finding a place to run within existing NASA and/or SCCA classes. Unless NASA decides I can run in something less than SU, I'll have to run with the big boys. My ROWG buddy with the Lingelfelter Vette reports 725 hp on the dyno. Crikies! I hope he doesn't discover SU or I am toast. I'm toast anyway in that SU class, but that's an indication of what I can expect to see here in Z06 Country, what with all the Mallets, Doug Rippeys and Lingelfelters that run track events in the Midwest. I still need a race class that is one level under SU.

Rich

 

[White97eclipse]

THis may sound like a really stupid question, but i am very new to all of this and trying to get involved, and if this starts up, i would love to be a part of it. I was just wondering, where all would the races be held? In only one state? or would it be like a traveling series type deal? thanks for the help and sorry for such a newB question

 

[Greg Collier]

As long as YOU aren't running in MY DSM Unlimited class in the Midwest, that will suit me just fine.

I'm a California boy Rich, the closest I'd get to you would be possibly the Nationals in September at Mid-Ohio...

Still, you haven't solved my problem of finding a place to run within existing NASA and/or SCCA classes. Unless NASA decides I can run in something less than SU, I'll have to run with the big boys. My ROWG buddy with the Lingelfelter Vette reports 725 hp on the dyno. Crikies! I hope he doesn't discover SU or I am toast. I'm toast anyway in that SU class, but that's an indication of what I can expect to see here in Z06 Country, what with all the Mallets, Doug Rippeys and Lingelfelters that run track events in the Midwest. I still need a race class that is one level under SU.

Rich

The DSM class would more then likely be something that would start in 2007. If you finish your HPDE stuff and get your race license before the end of 2006 you should definitely run a couple of SU's next year. The experience would be really good for you, and you'd probably blow the doors of the V8 boys. By years end of 2006 the DSM program will hopefully be in place with all the details hashed out...

 

[Greg Collier]

THis may sound like a really stupid question, but i am very new to all of this and trying to get involved, and if this starts up, i would love to be a part of it. I was just wondering, where all would the races be held? In only one state? or would it be like a traveling series type deal? thanks for the help and sorry for such a newB question

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people who don't listen...

NASA Pro-racing is a national amateur racing organization. There are regions all over the country that you can participate in, see www.nasaproracing.com for a region near you. As far as traveling is concerned, it's where ever the closest race tracks are in proximity to you.

Check it out

Greg

 

[terefic181]

1. Placement of ballast weight - I'm sure there's some rules out there pertaining to exactly how this weight needs to be located and secured so as not to become a projectile.

Here is an excerpt from the (NASA) Honda Challenge in regards to the ballast issue. (along with a short blurb on weight in general)

Tom
Edit) sp error

 

[terefic181]

3. Unlimited cage - I don't like restricting "safety" things, even if it does add significantly to the chassis stiffness. Any ideas on how we could limit it while maintaining the ability to make your car as safe as possible? "

I have no problem at all, with leaving this initial class as a 6 point cage. When Greg and I 1st spoke on this, he was thinking of more safety, and I was thinking of less cost for the beginner. I see that we both reversed our positions when we first posted to the thread. If we would want to add extra support etc., to the entry cage, on the other classes that shouldn't be to hard to accomplish.

Tom

 

[Greg Collier]

I have no problem at all, with leaving this initial class as a 6 point cage. When Greg and I 1st spoke on this, he was thinking of more safety, and I was thinking of less cost for the beginner. I see that we both reversed our positions when we first posted to the thread. If we would want to add extra support etc., to the entry cage, on the other classes that shouldn't be to hard to accomplish.

Tom

Ditto

 

[Rx3]

Damn that was a lot of catchup reading. Maybe I should subscribe to this thread



You guys are onto something here This is great!

 

[Slow old poop]

THis may sound like a really stupid question, but i am very new to all of this and trying to get involved, and if this starts up, i would love to be a part of it. I was just wondering, where all would the races be held? In only one state? or would it be like a traveling series type deal? thanks for the help and sorry for such a newB question

Hoo, boy! What a question! Where do I start?

Here's the 60-second guide to racing DSMs. HPDE 101, if you will.

An HPDE (high performance driving event) is an autocross on a race track. A club, like the the Porsche or BMW club, rents a race track for the weekend, and charges you anywhere from $250 to $400 to run your car on the track. You go out for 20 minutes at a time in your group (novice, intermediate, advanced, expert, instructor) 5-6 sessions a day, and drive your little heart out, cording your street tires, fading your stock brakes, and getting a tremendous woodie from it all. You aren't racing fender to fender, just going around the track as fast as you want to, getting up to 3 hours of WOT on a real track.

HPDEs -- also known as hot lapping and driver schools -- are held at every race track in the country on various weekends. If you are willing to drive long distances, you can get to one every weekend. Sometimes even midweek. You can run HPDEs in a stock car with no mods. All you need is a long-sleeved cotton shirt and an approved helmet. I've been running HPDEs for 6 years, getting faster and modding my car as I go.

When you get tired of hot lapping, and want to go fender-to-fender racing, you need 1). A race-prepped car with a roll cage, safety equipment, etc., and 2). a class to run it in. There are only two organizations that do this: SCCA and NASA. Both have rules, regulations and classes.

What we are trying to do here is define such a class for DSMs, so you don't have to run your $750 DSM against a $500,000 Porsche.

Getting started: Run an HPDE at a track near you and see if you like it.
Find a nearby track at http://chasinracin.com/track-locator/ or
http://www.speednetdirect.com/racetracks.php

Once you've found a nearby track, such as Pacific Raceway in Kent, WA (http://www.pacificraceways.com) go to its web site and call up the event schedule. Scan down the list of events: you'll see things like BMW Club, Porsche Club, Test n Tune Open Lapping, etc. Those are generally HPDEs. Now all you gotta do is track down the club, find out the gory details, pay your entry fee and go. At this time of year, the event schedules probably still list 2005 events, but they will be posting 2006 stuff before long.

After you send in your entry fee for your first HPDE, get back to us. We'll have loads of advice on how to prep your car and yourself.
Rich

 

[Microrcdude]

i say that we have a "Touring" class, just like scca, where the only modifications aloowed are tweaking with the computer, wheels, and tires. And maybe have a relitively cheap suspension package.

I am real interested in having a DSM racing series. Let me know if theres anything i can do to help.