Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

I definitely don't know how it works for sure but to me if there's no rpm signal then the car doesn't know engine position and therefore doesn't know when to fire the coils and injectors? I'm probably talking out my ass but seems like a possible logical explanation?

I mean I wonder what I could replace to fix it. Would it be a simple wiring issue, or is the CAS possibly going out? I'd think if the CAS was going out it would have more drivability problems but it doesn't. It runs honestly great.

I swear it feels fuel related. Gonna pull and send the injectors out sometime this week. I really...really don't think that'll fix a single thing, but it's one more thing I can cross off the culprit list.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I mean I wonder what I could replace to fix it. Would it be a simple wiring issue, or is the CAS possibly going out? I'd think if the CAS was going out it would have more drivability problems but it doesn't. It runs honestly great.

I swear it feels fuel related. Gonna pull and send the injectors out sometime this week. I really...really don't think that'll fix a single thing, but it's one more thing I can cross off the culprit list.

Battery's voltage would be my guess just went through this less than an hour ago with the red talon. Just got it up and running by itself, no jump pack.

Moved into garage. Turned off engine. Saw I parked like poop, went to move it and no start. cranking Voltage at like 9v. Tried starting for probably 5 minutes with no jump pack.

Put jump pack on, cranking volts are 11v, fires right up. Can't explain it

 

[CrackedDSM]

Battery's voltage would be my guess just went through this less than an hour ago with the red talon. Just got it up and running by itself, no jump pack.

Moved into garage. Turned off engine. Saw I parked like poop, went to move it and no start. cranking Voltage at like 9v. Tried starting for probably 5 minutes with no jump pack.

Put jump pack on, cranking volts are 11v, fires right up. Can't explain it

This has me curious and it's easy enough to check. I don't have a jump pack but I have a Ford Edge that I've used to jump it before. Tomorrow I'll recreate the situation and if it gives me trouble I'll have the Edge ready to go to throw the cables on. If it starts right up and I can't recreate it...I have no idea what to do to fix it. Maybe re-run wires from the alt to the battery and the fuse panel.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright. I really honestly don't feel like this will do any good, and it's a total waste of money, but I got my injectors removed, bagged, double bagged, nestled and boxed out ready to ship to FIC. Would absolutely love to be wrong, but yeah. Even if they don't need anything, it's one more thing I can cross off the list of "things unknown" and add to the list of "brand new, known working".

 

[enriquez2000]

Alright. I really honestly don't feel like this will do any good, and it's a total waste of money, but I got my injectors removed, bagged, double bagged, nestled and boxed out ready to ship to FIC. Would absolutely love to be wrong, but yeah. Even if they don't need anything, it's one more thing I can cross off the list of "things unknown" and add to the list of "brand new, known working".

Clean injectors are never a waste if its never been done.

I would be concerned about your battery voltage dropping so low. I assume you didnt try the jump pack? Are you getting 14v at idle?

Sorry on my phone so havent seen your logs. Just drop it off and Ill have it running and tuned over the weekend

 

[CrackedDSM]

Clean injectors are never a waste if its never been done.

I would be concerned aboit your battery voltage dropping so low. I assume you didnt try the jump pack? Are you getting 14v at idle?

Sorry on my phone so havent seen your logs. Just droo it off and Ill have it running and tuned over the weekend

That does help admittedly.

No jump pack tried. Lol. And yeah 14v at idle.

And nah. I wanna do this myself. Be too easy to just have someone else do all the work!

 

[enriquez2000]

That does help admittedly.

No jump pack tried. Lol. And yeah 14v at idle.

And nah. I wanna do this myself. Be too easy to just have someone else do all the work!

Good man for self learning. You should see a drop of no less than 10.5 on cranking as normal. Try the jump pack when you can.

If that fixes it youll want to look at wiring. Id start with grounds. I dont know if you guys touched the timing at cranking but too much advance on cranking can increase load lowering voltage.

Did I miss the age of the battery?

Make sure you have a good wire to your starter. I converted all mine to welding cable.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Good man for self learning. You should see a drop of no less than 10.5 on cranking as normal. Try the jump pack when you can.

If that fixes it youll want to look at wiring. Id start with grounds. I dont know if you guys touched the timing at cranking but too much advance on cranking can increase load lowering voltage.

Did I miss the age of the battery?

Make sure you have a good wire to your starter. I converted all mine to welding cable.

View attachment 748816

Wiring on this car is sus, but I bought a complete/upgraded grounding kit so all the grounds are gigantic and fresh. However the wiring from alt to battery and alt to fuse box is sus. I may end up upgrading that to welding cable if it still has issues. Battery is less than 6 months old. A year at most.

I think the starter might be going out too. Very rarely, but more than never, it will just click and I have to turn the key several times until it engages.


But to clarify for everyone, there's no problem actually cranking/turning the engine over. It does that spectacularly. The problem is it's like an old carb'd vehicle where it just cranks and cranks and cranks endlessly when hot/operating temp. Letting the car sit for 5-15 seconds fixes the problem, as does cycling the key on/off(which primes the fuel pump each time as well).

 

[enriquez2000]

Wiring on this car is sus, but I bought a complete/upgraded grounding kit so all the grounds are gigantic and fresh. However the wiring from alt to battery and alt to fuse box is sus. I may end up upgrading that to welding cable if it still has issues. Battery is less than 6 months old. A year at most.

I think the starter might be going out too. Very rarely, but more than never, it will just click and I have to turn the key several times until it engages.


But to clarify for everyone, there's no problem actually cranking/turning the engine over. It does that spectacularly. The problem is it's like an old carb'd vehicle where it just cranks and cranks and cranks endlessly when hot/operating temp. Letting the car sit for 5-15 seconds fixes the problem, as does cycling the key on/off(which primes the fuel pump each time as well).

Voltage can drop low enough to not catch a spark. Is it low voltage at every start?

Ill download your logs amd see what I see

 

[CrackedDSM]

Voltage can drop low enough to not catch a spark. Is it low voltage at every start?

Ill download your logs amd see what I see

To be honest I never really tried starting the car while logging before. I think at least. I'd have to comb through logs and check, but I don't remember low voltage on every start.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You all do realize that once voltage drops to 9v, or below, good luck getting the injectors to fire.

 

[enriquez2000]

Couple things happening... your fuel goes to 7.3 so PIG rich when starting... the 2 things we need to look at are your cranking fuel over 190 degrees is at 14 percent... that alone shouldnt go super rich but can start with that at zero and see what happens.

2nd your 9 volt deadtime is 1626... if your voltage stayed 12 volts or higher that would be fine but you are going from 819 at 12 volts to at best 10.5 volts so its interpolating. I would set 9v deadtime to something closer to 1000.

Of course you now have to wait until your injectors come home... but Ill bet you a hamburger this helps

You may want to pull your plugs and double check them... 7.3afr can foul them pretty quick

 

[CrackedDSM]

Thread update: I honestly couldn't resist anymore because they were back in stock, so I have the Outlander Brake upgrade kit on the way. Reman'd Calipers w/ brackets, and R1 Concepts Rotors + Pads. Pretty excited. I also am gonna try some little trickery to not have to buy lines separate. I'll let the thread know if it works or fails. I'm stoked either way though, as I've read that the two piston calipers are a big upgrade over the 1 piston jobbers, and that the outlander rotor/bracket is about the same of an upgrade over the two piston calipers and DSM rotors.

Couple things happening... your fuel goes to 7.3 so PIG rich when starting... the 2 things we need to look at are your cranking fuel over 190 degrees is at 14 percent... that alone shouldnt go super rich but can start with that at zero and see what happens.

2nd your 9 volt deadtime is 1626... if your voltage stayed 12 volts or higher that would be fine but you are going from 819 at 12 volts to at best 10.5 volts so its interpolating. I would set 9v deadtime to something closer to 1000.

Of course you now have to wait until your injectors come home... but Ill bet you a hamburger this helps

You may want to pull your plugs and double check them... 7.3afr can foul them pretty quick

I'll take you up on that bet. And ignore the 7.3/wideband idiocy when RPM drops. When I start the car it reset the wideband, and the LC2 takes 32.4 million years to heat up and turn on. Even if it was literally JUST RUNNING. Every single time the key is turned off and you bump it again, you have to wait 30+ seconds for it to do its thing. My biggest gripe with it, honestly.


But the deadtime thing is a great point. I'll address that for sure when the injectors are back if it's still an issue.


I think I'm gonna borrow a set of known good 450's and see what happens while I wait. I think the 450s will juuuuust eek by on wastegate pressure with the Green, I just won't do pulls to redline.

Plugs are brand new though, before I got help with tuning they were 150% fouled. Solid black. I changed the stock o2 sensor too just in case it was fouled too(it wasn't really).

 

[enriquez2000]

Thread update: I honestly couldn't resist anymore because they were back in stock, so I have the Outlander Brake upgrade kit on the way. Reman'd Calipers w/ brackets, and R1 Concepts Rotors + Pads. Pretty excited. I also am gonna try some little trickery to not have to buy lines separate. I'll let the thread know if it works or fails. I'm stoked either way though, as I've read that the two piston calipers are a big upgrade over the 1 piston jobbers, and that the outlander rotor/bracket is about the same of an upgrade over the two piston calipers and DSM rotors.




I'll take you up on that bet. And ignore the 7.3/wideband idiocy when RPM drops. When I start the car it reset the wideband, and the LC2 takes 32.4 million years to heat up and turn on. Even if it was literally JUST RUNNING. Every single time the key is turned off and you bump it again, you have to wait 30+ seconds for it to do its thing. My biggest gripe with it, honestly.


But the deadtime thing is a great point. I'll address that for sure when the injectors are back if it's still an issue.


I think I'm gonna borrow a set of known good 450's and see what happens while I wait. I think the 450s will juuuuust eek by on wastegate pressure with the Green, I just won't do pulls to redline.

Plugs are brand new though, before I got help with tuning they were 150% fouled. Solid black. I changed the stock o2 sensor too just in case it was fouled too(it wasn't really).

Makes sense on the wideband... i wired mine to stay on with the ecu while cranking. Still think your deadtime could be a culprit its almost double your 12v number.

Ive found over the years that leaner at cranking helps fire up. On my e85 car everyone says you have to richen it up but Ive found I pull a ton of fuel out through coolant temp adjustmebt or it struggles to start and then dies when driving unless it warms up.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Makes sense on the wideband... i wired mine to stay on with the ecu while cranking. Still think your deadtime could be a culprit its almost double your 12v number.

Ive found over the years that leaner at cranking helps fire up. On my e85 car everyone says you have to richen it up but Ive found I pull a ton of fuel out through coolant temp adjustmebt or it struggles to start and then dies when driving unless it warms up.

Man I meant to test that today. I did mess with cranking enrichment tab in the DA section but never tested if that made a difference. I haven't fully taped the box up yet, and post doesn't run til Monday so I may pull them out and test out the changes tomorrow.


I probably won't though. Gonna commit and just get them cleaned and see what happens. I'll change stuff I changed today back to make the test the same.


And honestly, we had to do some f*ckery with deadtimes, global, and MAFComp just to get the car to respond and drive properly. We had to pull a metric ton of fuel out everywhere.

 

[enriquez2000]

Man I meant to test that today. I did mess with cranking enrichment tab in the DA section but never tested if that made a difference. I haven't fully taped the box up yet, and post doesn't run til Monday so I may pull them out and test out the changes tomorrow.


I probably won't though. Gonna commit and just get them cleaned and see what happens. I'll change stuff I changed today back to make the test the same.


And honestly, we had to do some f*ckery with deadtimes, global, and MAFComp just to get the car to respond and drive properly. We had to pull a metric ton of fuel out everywhere.

"USUALLY" proper deadtimes means you can keep your global matching the injectors pretty close. If youre pulling fuel through global your deatimes are wrong.

If this is an SD car mafcomp shouldnt be used nor should sliders

Sorry Im preaching... ive just had to start from scratch on a lot of cars that compensate fuel in the wrong ways

 

[CrackedDSM]

Kinda cool, was checking around on the status of my order from RockAuto, and discovered that the price of the caliper + bracket that I just bought, legitimately just went up to $51.79. I paid $39.79. Crazy. They weren't even marked as discounted or anything. You gotta watch RockAuto prices like a hawk I guess.

Still, stoked to have these coming. Looking forward to some nice stopping powah.


Also: I added a couple rebuild kits for the rear calipers in there. I think the driver's side functions fine, but the passenger side caliper is suuuuus.




I've said this before, but I really think I'm gonna try to install the rest of the A/C parts this coming week. This whole week I work, but the week after that I have off/vacation time. Even if I don't charge it/put freon on it, I wanna seal it up so it's all there. I'm super worried about this car being able to idle with a/c on, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I think I may end up having to make a hard decision with this car though involving a massive rewiring project. It straight up dies if you try to let it idle and turn both fans on, and it shouldn't. The system shouldn't struggle that much when there's a demand electronically.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I just bought everything to rebuild my rears as well and see what you’ve been saying about the shipping. They are god damn rapist! 50 bucks in shipping for all the different little parts coming from 4 or 5 different warehouses? Even the ones coming from the same they hit with separate shipping on each item. Unreal!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Do you have a link to all the parts i have a pair on my car and off, gonna rebuild this winter and powder coat along with my brembos up front.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Do you have a link to all the parts i have a pair on my car and off, gonna rebuild this winter and powder coat along with my brembos up front.

Not a link but here are the parts that I bought, there’s other options for some of them. I basically got everything they had for the rears for an awd.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I just bought everything to rebuild my rears as well and see what you’ve been saying about the shipping. They are god damn rapist! 50 bucks in shipping for all the different little parts coming from 4 or 5 different warehouses? Even the ones coming from the same they hit with separate shipping on each item. Unreal!

Yeah, I saw the trend quite awhile back. That always happens to me honestly. I can see where something is gonna go south before anyone else does, so I say something trying to warn and prepare people, only to get called out and ridiculed. Then usually about a year later(give or take a few months) it happens and people act surprised.


I use RockAuto about as much as I do a parts store these days. Nothing special like it used to be. Honestly about the only time I'll prioritize RockAuto anymore is to use Paypals pay in four option.


But yeah. Damn there's more to rebuilding the rear calipers than I thought! Lol.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Thanks that's what I needed im glad I can get rebuild parts for the rears.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Thanks that's what I needed im glad I can get rebuild parts for the rears.

Don’t take my word for it, ! Do your research, I just got what they had and going from there. If I ever get this damn body refurb and paint done I’ll get into some parts finally!
Oh yah, just saw where we were. Cory can have his build thread back. BTW I texted you foolio.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Don’t take my word for it, ! Do your research, I just got what they had and going from there. If I ever get this damn body refurb and paint done I’ll get into some parts finally!
Oh yah, just saw where we were. Cory can have his build thread back. BTW I texted you foolio.

I don't mind my build thread being hijacked. Traditionally every single time it's been jacked, it's been for solid information that was nowhere on the forums before. OFH related stuff, and a couple others I forgot.


Also: damn iPhones and their "we think this is spam even though they're in your contacts, so we're gonna put it in your 'unknown' folder"

 

[92AWDHX40]

Gotcha its in the list dsm isn't tuned yet hopefully in a few days