Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

I may be dumb but I've been rocking these Kemso 340s. There loud but not one has failed me, I dont know if there a Chinese brand or what. I used to run those aem ones.

View attachment 747428

It'd be tempting for sure if they made one with offset inlet/outlet. The 1G AWD's have to have the inlet opposite of the outlet. That pump even has the Walbro 255 fitting! Pretty cool.


How long has your oldest one lasted? I did a bunch of research on the longevity because I don't really want to have to do this again so soon. But if this one dies I'm just gonna go Walbro/TI 535. Like Stapl3 said, they're cheaper and flow way more.

 

[jesse12345]

It'd be tempting for sure if they made one with offset inlet/outlet. The 1G AWD's have to have the inlet opposite of the outlet. That pump even has the Walbro 255 fitting! Pretty cool.


How long has your oldest one lasted? I did a bunch of research on the longevity because I don't really want to have to do this again so soon. But if this one dies I'm just gonna go Walbro/TI 535. Like Stapl3 said, they're cheaper and flow way more.

Yeah it's quite the unit, I've had this one for 4 years. I bought an extra just in case, but it's been solid. I didn't know if anyone knew about that brand or not. If this one dies I'll throw the spare one in, and if that one ever dies ill finally buy something more quality. I honestly only bought it because I was being cheap at that point in time, but maybe it's not so bad after all.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright well, I'll let the cat out of the bag as money has exchanged hands at this point. This is my super duper secret purchase that one of you already guessed.

It's the Jacks Transmissions "Drag Trans". Has the double synchro 1-2, and the "HD" 3-4 gears. It has super low miles, and the best part...4-spider center diff!! Which is the whole reason I want it. I got a screaming deal on it, and honestly stoked to use it. This way I can actually push this Green and not worried about blowing up a 22 spline aluminum t-case, or a stock 2 spider diff.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I know where it came from
Same transmission that I have!
Glad you could pick it up. I had a opportunity but just retiring left my car funds to low to snatch it up. Congrats
Mine started as a 22 spline but I put a super nice 23 spline output shaft in it so I could use any one of my 5 transfer cases in a pinch. I do have an iron head 22 spline transfer case with only 500 miles on it or so. It's going in the White 90 GSX during her motor swap. You're gonna be happy!

 

[AWDGrayBird]

I am sure it will serve you well as long as you make sure you get rid of clutch drag. Seems to be the death of a lot of transmissions
I reached out on that before he posted it and had plans to go get it but... I have a to pay for surgery for my daughter's feet issues. So 3500 gone just like that and dropped another 5k on getting my wife into a New earthy brass matte 2024 Santa Fe hybrid... The Sequoia 12mpg wasn't cutting it.
It was worse than my Eclipse for the entire first tank of tuning idle/cruise/pulls.


I am just waiting on Neat to get things sorted so they can have all my money since they delayed it another 3 to 4 months.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Got the pump installed today. I didn't have to do much to modify the rubber isolator except one thing that the pictures show.

It fits nice and snug, just like the Walbro 255 that came out. Install was an absolute breeze. In the instructions they specify very clearly to keep the port on the top and the bottom of the fuel pump clear or it'll cause hot start issues/fuel pressure bleed down issues, so to keep with the instructions I cut off a little of the rubber isolator on the bottom to free the port. The top one remains clear because nothing blocks it, and now the bottom is good too.

First impressions upon driving it are that I love it. This thing is so freakin' quiet I didn't know if it was actually running or not(I thought I might not have hooked the power wire up or something) but it runs great. The map is slightly richer upon WOT, so it made a difference. The entire tune doesn't need to be altered though, just needs a little more fuel pulled out than before. I let it die (low rpm, in gear) aka forced it to die without turning the key off when it was hot. Before in those situations you had to turn the key off, then key on and let the fuel pump prime for awhile before it would restart. This time though it just cranks right back up. I'll keep testing it, but so far it looks like the hot start issue is resolved.

It drives great. I don't want to drive it anymore though until I get my modified clevis back, so I can make 150% sure the clutch isn't dragging a bit up top. But, all in all, pretty successful day!

 

[Anfurnyy]

Putting in work lately man! I like to see it. Happy everything is ironing out for you and you get to enjoy the car.

Nice find on the trans too! Thats exact what mine will be when it's back together minus I have a Quaife LSD front diff and 300m output. Is yours an OEM 4 spider or one of ol Tims cross Chromoly cross shafts?

 

[AWDGrayBird]

Progress that's good to hear.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Putting in work lately man! I like to see it. Happy everything is ironing out for you and you get to enjoy the car.

Nice find on the trans too! Thats exact what mine will be when it's back together minus I have a Quaife LSD front diff and 300m output. Is yours an OEM 4 spider or one of ol Tims cross Chromoly cross shafts?

Thanks broski. It's coming together for sure. Can't wait for my clevis to get to me so I can actually drive the car extendedly again. Clutch is so close to breaking in, I can taste it.

I don't know about the diff. I think since it's from Jack's, it's probably just the OEM cross shaft.

Progress that's good to hear.

Thanks brotha!

 

[Dericsh]

It took me a while tonight but I got caught up . Tons of really great info added to the build thread over the last month. I book marked at least 4 posts while I read thru. Great job- congrats on the progress!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Having the hot start issue pop its head up. When logging I noticed Front O2/stock O2 sensor voltage is all over the place. It tries to die and doesn't stay running, so I enabled the narrowband simulation and it seemed to fix it. The AFRs are a little more all over the place this way due to the switching point, but I'm gonna upload a log for you guys to look at and see if you see anything out of whack that's causing idle issues.

Fuel pressure doesn't drop before it dies, and fuel pressure is rock steady when cranking, so fueling isn't the issue. Also changed the PTU just in case, that didn't help. Only thing that seemed to help is putting it in NB02 simulation using wideband. I ordered a new Denso replacement front o2 sensor so we'll see how that works out. Remember how badly the plugs were fouled, the o2 sensor is probably just as fouled too.

Anyway, the log. Pick it over, lemme know what you find.

Edit: Gonna add two logs, one of them is before the NBO2 simulation, the other is after. You'll see when NBO2 is simulated because Front o2 voltage only goes either .80 or .20 and nothing inbetween. I renabled it on the most recent log just for giggles, but after letting it die it refused to start back up without several primes of the key.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Having the hot start issue pop its head up. When logging I noticed Front O2/stock O2 sensor voltage is all over the place. It tries to die and doesn't stay running, so I enabled the narrowband simulation and it seemed to fix it. The AFRs are a little more all over the place this way due to the switching point, but I'm gonna upload a log for you guys to look at and see if you see anything out of whack that's causing idle issues.

Fuel pressure doesn't drop before it dies, and fuel pressure is rock steady when cranking, so fueling isn't the issue. Also changed the PTU just in case, that didn't help. Only thing that seemed to help is putting it in NB02 simulation using wideband. I ordered a new Denso replacement front o2 sensor so we'll see how that works out. Remember how badly the plugs were fouled, the o2 sensor is probably just as fouled too.

Anyway, the log. Pick it over, lemme know what you find.

Edit: Gonna add two logs, one of them is before the NBO2 simulation, the other is after. You'll see when NBO2 is simulated because Front o2 voltage only goes either .80 or .20 and nothing inbetween. I renabled it on the most recent log just for giggles, but after letting it die it refused to start back up without several primes of the key.

So just to clarify, car starts but then wants to die? No issues actually get the car to start?

 

[CrackedDSM]

So just to clarify, car starts but then wants to die? No issues actually get the car to start?

Car is extremely hard to start AFTER it dies when hot. Once it allows you to start it, it's okay. But if you let the car just sit and idle for an extended period of time, it tries to die on you. If it does die, God help you trying to restart it without several primes of the fuel pump/key.


However, turning on NB simulation fixes this issue almost entirely. The only caveat is it runs rich until the wideband heats up and switches over after you first start it.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Car is extremely hard to start AFTER it dies when hot. Once it allows you to start it, it's okay. But if you let the car just sit and idle for an extended period of time, it tries to die on you. If it does die, God help you trying to restart it without several primes of the fuel pump/key.


However, turning on NB simulation fixes this issue almost entirely. The only caveat is it runs rich until the wideband heats up and switches over after you first start it.

To me that sounds like some sort of vaporlock in the rail maybe. Does the coolant temp in the ecu/log look whacky when trying to restart? IIRC that coolant temp is responsible for coolant based fueling adjustments isn't it?

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

I would personally start with zeroing out the mafcomp tab and checking the disable maf compensation w/sd operation. Also notice at idle your airflowperrev at .5ish at idle (double what it should be). I'd start there and do another log and see where that lands you.

EDIT: Also noticed you have the box clicked to enable hot start enrichment in the misc tab. I do not have that enabled on mine... maybe try unchecking that to see if you still have the hot start problem?

 

[CrackedDSM]

I would personally start with zeroing out the mafcomp tab and checking the disable maf compensation w/sd operation. Also notice at idle your airflowperrev at .5ish at idle (double what it should be). I'd start there and do another log and see where that lands you.

View attachment 747546

EDIT: Also noticed you have the box clicked to enable hot start enrichment in the misc tab. I do not have that enabled on mine... maybe try unchecking that to see if you still have the hot start problem?

Long story short those are all what it took to even get the car running. Lol. One day I’ll zero it all out and make adjustments with VE only but not today. I may disable hot start enrichment though. It needed it before but I wonder if it still needs it now.

To me that sounds like some sort of vaporlock in the rail maybe. Does the coolant temp in the ecu/log look whacky when trying to restart? IIRC that coolant temp is responsible for coolant based fueling adjustments isn't it?

Coolant temp is rock steady and doesn’t look wacky. Although hot start enrichment is probably messing with it. The Vapor lock in the rail is a good idea. I wonder if I should loosen the fittings at the rail just briefly when it’s hot and see if air comes out.

 

[pauleyman]

I've heard people mention fuel rail vaporlock and I don't even see how that's possible in a modern fuel injection car with a return line. Fuel is constantly moving and furthermore its under pressure. Vaporlock is more of a carburetor thing.

Long story short those are all what it took to even get the car running. Lol. One day I’ll zero it all out and make adjustments with VE only but not today. I may disable hot start enrichment though. It needed it before but I wonder if it still needs it now.



Coolant temp is rock steady and doesn’t look wacky. Although hot start enrichment is probably messing with it. The Vapor lock in the rail is a good idea. I wonder if I should loosen the fittings at the rail just briefly when it’s hot and see if air comes out.

Do NOT undo the fuel fittings on a hot car.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Do NOT undo the fuel fittings on a hot car.

It was slight sarcasm. Wondered if anyone would catch it. . It was a “let the car burn down” joke.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I've heard people mention fuel rail vaporlock and I don't even see how that's possible in a modern fuel injection car with a return line. Fuel is constantly moving and furthermore its under pressure. Vaporlock is more of a carburetor thing.

I actually had it really bad in my 84 T z31. Was really common. I'm not entirely sure why it happens on fuel injected cars. Maybe the rail is the highest point in the fuel system so it has a hard time passing the air to the regulator/ return. Multiple pump primes or cranking might either push the air further on or pushes it through the injectors making room for more fuel?

 

[CrackedDSM]

I actually had it really bad in my 84 T z31. Was really common. I'm not entirely sure why it happens on fuel injected cars. Maybe the rail is the highest point in the fuel system so it has a hard time passing the air to the regulator/ return. Multiple pump primes or cranking might either push the air further on or pushes it through the injectors making room for more fuel?

Or just good old fashioned aerated fuel from an aggressive pump.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Or just good old fashioned aerated fuel from an aggressive pump.

Could be that also

 

[pauleyman]

Or just good old fashioned aerated fuel from an aggressive pump.

Elaborate.

I actually had it really bad in my 84 T z31. Was really common. I'm not entirely sure why it happens on fuel injected cars. Maybe the rail is the highest point in the fuel system so it has a hard time passing the air to the regulator/ return. Multiple pump primes or cranking might either push the air further on or pushes it through the injectors making room for more fuel?

Did that have a return line?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Elaborate.

If you think about it, a strong pump, pumping any kind of liquid in a non-sealed environment makes bubbles. If you think about an AIO in terms of computers, when you first fill the system you have to run the pump with the cap off and wait for what feels like eternity for the bubbles to stop. Sometimes you still get bubbles though they aren't enough to stop flow.


In my mind it makes sense, especially because this is a fresh pump install with lots of empty space for fuel to fill, and a much stronger/higher volume pump to fill it rapidly. Not to mention the bleed down from the AFPR that makes it have to refill all that space again and again.

 

[pauleyman]

If you think about it, a strong pump, pumping any kind of liquid in a non-sealed environment makes bubbles. If you think about an AIO in terms of computers, when you first fill the system you have to run the pump with the cap off and wait for what feels like eternity for the bubbles to stop. Sometimes you still get bubbles though they aren't enough to stop flow.


In my mind it makes sense, especially because this is a fresh pump install with lots of empty space for fuel to fill, and a much stronger/higher volume pump to fill it rapidly. Not to mention the bleed down from the AFPR that makes it have to refill all that space again and again.

It's cavitation and should be very momentary under pressure if at all on the outlet.

 

[Justin DuBois]

It's cavitation and should be very momentary under pressure if at all on the outlet.

Hope your fuel tank is over 1/2 full... The o-ring at the pump outlet and the check-valve in the pump should prevent the supply line from draining back to the tank. If you can check the PSI of line pressure just after the engine has been running, it will tell you somthing. Stock cars hold a bit of line pressure, and turning the key to start produces instant line pressure.

If your line pressure drops to 0 after turning the key off, and key turn on takes several seconds to reach pressure, I would go back to the pump and check that the o-ring is still where it is supposed to be.