Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[pauleyman]

I've converted some as well and it's only worth doing if you change everything that needs to be changed. That being said the only way I would run r12 now is with a complete system overhaul. Everything new. The r12 is simply too expensive to have leak out so you have to make sure the seals are tight (new). A fresh compressor, hoses and orings. Sure I'll run r12

 

[DreamChaser7]

Planning on everything new and r12 now myself.

 

[dwb]

There's a reason r12 has been phased out and no longer manufactured.
Now get off my lawn!

 

[DreamChaser7]

It was a good read.

 

[CrackedDSM]

What about the "artic air" stuff that's supposedly an "r12" replacement? It goes by the name 'Artic air'.

Also there's a ton of talk from old tractor guys that you can use propane instead of R12, which is super intriguing. I just have no idea how to charge Propane to an A/C system. .

But yeah. I may just try the artic air and report back. But I'd hate to have to flush the whole system if it sucks to convert to R134a.

Curious: I've been deep diving on R12 to R134a and people universally hate it because you can't run an R12 system on R134a at the same amount of refrigerant because R134a requires higher pressures and bigger condenser/compressor. So it'll only function on 80% of the refrigerant that a R12 system does.

Which leads me to my question, why can't I use a 2G compressor and 2G condenser? Both are R134a systems, and will be able to handle R134a pressures and etc. Apparently the 6 bolt swap guys use a 2G compressor and bracket and bolts right in. The only question from here is the line.

Meh. IDK what to do. I may just buy the Artic Air and deal with the extra expense. Even if it doesn't cool as great as original, if it functions AT ALL in the Florida heat it'll be better than no A/C.

Edit: 2G compressor and even the lines for the most part will work. The condenser is a problem. It's physically bigger and the port for the dryer and lines will run into the core support/unable to get around that. Alas. But, agility makes a slightly bigger 1G style condenser that's advertised as "For R12 and R134a both" that is identical in style to a 1G condenser, it's just slightly bigger. Tempting...

So who has some expert tips and tricks on how to remove/reinstall the 1G A/C compressor? I think I'm gonna tackle it tomorrow, and kind of curious if anyone's got some cheater/OG tricks. At this point I am super tempted to just remove the intake manifold so I can drop it straight down, but reinstalling the intake manifold with the compressor I have a feeling is gonna be a capitol B BEYOTCH.

Advice? Tips? Tricks? Spare Alcohol?

 

[dwb]

It's tight but doable without removing the IM

 

[DreamChaser7]

Not sure about that. It was the Enviro-safe stuff I remember reading about. www.Frosty-freezeacproducts.com.
I’ll look into that Artic Freeze stuff too. Open to all good options here cuz well you know, Floriduh.

Edit: it was a while ago I saw the stuff I was thinking about and just went and checked this site and not seeing it now…do see r-12 though.

 

[CrackedDSM]

So, does anyone know how hard new A/C seals are supposed to feel? How are they supposed to feel in general? Like same texture as a new o-ring, or different? I have a new a/c seal kit that came and I'm curious how they're supposed to feel.



For anyone curious however, your standard R12 to R134a conversion kit won't work on a 1G DSM because the high side fitting is a 3/16" size instead of 1/4". Idiotic. But I ordered a 3/16" R134A fitting and we'll see if it works.

Also: the low side fitting is ON TOP of the compressor. Absolutely idiotic, . But hopefully useful info for others.


The compressor I got from a member here actually included an R134a fitting so I'm hopeful it has PAG oil in it already and not mineral oil. I'll probably pay for a complete system flush though just to be safe. But hope they don't hate that the low side fitting is under the GOD DAMN intake manifold. I swear.


Also: the 1G DSM takes 33oz of R12. I am not paying $350 in refrigerant alone just to keep it R12. Gonna convert it to R134A and go from there. If I have to get a custom condenser made and fit a 2G DSM A/C Compressor with some magic lines, I will. But honestly even 50* air is better than 95*+ air.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I am not paying $350 in refrigerant alone just to keep it R12

I gladly will if it winds up being the best option

your standard R12 to R134a conversion kit won't work on a 1G DSM because the high side fitting is a 3/16" size instead of 1/4". Idiotic.

I’m confused. The article Marty referenced shows 3/8” r12 high side.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I’m confused. The article Marty referenced shows 3/8” r12 high side.

It's definitely 3/16". It's smaller than 1/4 by so much it cleanly fits into the adapter fitting. Lol. 3/8ths would be bigger than 1/4".

 

[dwb]

You'll be fine with r134a conversion as long as the system works properly.

 

[CrackedDSM]

You'll be fine with r134a conversion as long as the system works properly.

That's the goal, son! I'm gonna get the actual system working first(electrical, relays, switches, fans, etc), then make sure all the parts are sealed and hold vacuum. Then if it's good, I'll probably just spring for a brand new compressor, brand new condenser, and from there all the parts in the system that CAN be new, will be new.

Just wanna see it hold a charge and actually turn on first though. But that's the plan 100%.

 

[DreamChaser7]

It's definitely 3/16". It's smaller than 1/4 by so much it cleanly fits into the adapter fitting. Lol. 3/8ths would be bigger than 1/4".

Maybe a typo in the article? Look at the big picture on second page. I have no idea or a car with parts in it to reference, .

 

[CrackedDSM]

Maybe a typo in the article? Look at the big picture on second page. I have no idea or a car with parts in it to reference, .

I actually double checked the article when you first posted, and it 100% says 3/8s. Lol. It might be from an older muscle car or something. Or it could very really be a typo. Our high side fitting looks completely different than the picture though, it's not raised at all. I can take a picture if I need to.

 

[DreamChaser7]

oh I believe you. Assumed it was the same for all vehicles.
It also says that r134a is more hygroscopic than r12 and requires tighter seals. Something we should think about in the planning here I’m sure..

 

[CrackedDSM]

oh I believe you. Assumed it was the same for all vehicles.
It also says that r134a is more hygroscopic than r12 and requires tighter seals. Something we should think about in the planning here I’m sure..

I was thinking about that too, and came to the uneducated, total guess, probably 100% wrong conclusion that modern A/C seal kits probably account for this. I'm hope-betting that they mean if you reuse old seals and stuff that it'll all leak out eventually.

But I really...really am hoping that using modern seals is the fix. Lol. All the lines themselves in the A/C kit are all hard lines with the exception of like one part, so if everything is tight but the R134a leaks out slowly, I'll get a custom hard suction line made. (I think that's what the line is called that runs from evaporator to compressor, it's the only line with flexy rubber section).

 

[pauleyman]

I was thinking about that too, and came to the uneducated, total guess, probably 100% wrong conclusion that modern A/C seal kits probably account for this. I'm hope-betting that they mean if you reuse old seals and stuff that it'll all leak out eventually.

But I really...really am hoping that using modern seals is the fix. Lol. All the lines themselves in the A/C kit are all hard lines with the exception of like one part, so if everything is tight but the R134a leaks out slowly, I'll get a custom hard suction line made. (I think that's what the line is called that runs from evaporator to compressor, it's the only line with flexy rubber section).

A hose shop will replace the rubber section and line is new again. I've had it done.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Not sure I mentioned it but I have the proper fitting on order. Gonna install the compressor this weekend and most of the o rings. I can’t/wont install the orings that go into the dryer because I’m not installing the new dryer until I’m ready to actually seal and charge the system.

Also gonna plug in the controls for the AC system and hope to god the fan blows and everything works.

So nothing like super duper amazingly exciting but this thing needs to have A/C if I’m gonna drive it legitimately anywhere in Florida summer.



Fun little fact: there are so many assholes people moving to Florida that the DMVs all within an hour of me are completely and totally booked for MONTHS for title transfer/registration for vehicles. I have legit no clue how long it’s gonna be before I can actually register this car because they don’t talk walk ins. You have to have an appointment.

So yeah. If you’re thinking of moving to Florida, DONT. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STAY AWAY.

 

[saturn345]

If you can get r12. It’s so worth the money. R134a just Dosent cool like r12. Any old car at my work we usually keep r12 most customers want it work like new again.
R134a Freon is being faded out come January this year. So then anything r134a will have to be retrofitted to new r1234yf.

Each component you wanna fill with oil. If the specs are available. Condenser usually holds certain amount so does the receiver/dry and compressor.
Flush work sometimes not all the time. All they are good for is getting metal out of you have failure in system.

O-rings want them to match close as possibly. If not they will leak over time.
Oring are the hardest thing now days to match up.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Not sure I mentioned it but I have the proper fitting on order. Gonna install the compressor this weekend and most of the o rings. I can’t/wont install the orings that go into the dryer because I’m not installing the new dryer until I’m ready to actually seal and charge the system.

Also gonna plug in the controls for the AC system and hope to god the fan blows and everything works.

So nothing like super duper amazingly exciting but this thing needs to have A/C if I’m gonna drive it legitimately anywhere in Florida summer.



Fun little fact: there are so many assholes people moving to Florida that the DMVs all within an hour of me are completely and totally booked for MONTHS for title transfer/registration for vehicles. I have legit no clue how long it’s gonna be before I can actually register this car because they don’t talk walk ins. You have to have an appointment.

So yeah. If you’re thinking of moving to Florida, DONT. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STAY AWAY.

Agreed! This probably doesn’t apply to anyone here as I’m sure most of us are legit “drivers” if they’re on this forum, but I swear 99% of the people on the road down here are straight fu&king retards and I have no idea how they got a license! I would counter that and say I welcome anyone who can pay attention to actually driving when they are behind the wheel are welcome, if only we could remove the idiots simultaneously! Every day I don’t know if imma make it home or wind up in jail! FML. Ya today was another pleasant ride if you couldn’t tell…

 

[CrackedDSM]

Agreed! This probably doesn’t apply to anyone here as I’m sure most of us are legit “drivers” if they’re on this forum, but I swear 99% of the people on the road down here are straight fu&king retards and I have no idea how they got a license! I would counter that and say I welcome anyone who can pay attention to actually driving when they are behind the wheel are welcome, if only we could remove the idiots simultaneously! Every day I don’t know if imma make it home or wind up in jail! FML. Ya today was another pleasant ride if you couldn’t tell…

Honestly you’re so right. People aren’t just dumb though, they’re assholes on top that do things just to spite people. There’s no other explanation.

It gets even worse when you start working in any job that deals with traffic. Like driving for a living or having to clean up after idiots who wreck. Not even really referring to myself here.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Sheesh.
How was your drive through Birmingham recently? I stay away from the highways/interstates in that area if possible. Luckily I live in a quite area North of Birmingham, and everything I need is nearby. You never know what you may hit or get hit by on those highways. I couldn't count how many times I've had to veer off in the emergency lane or nearly scrape a median to avoid a severe accident. Last year I watched a Dodge Challenger flip 5ish times and end up at the top of an exit ramp. While I was on the side of the highway helping a woman install her spare tire because she had a flat and no idea what to do. The driver was ejected for lack of seatbelt, but miraculously walked away. That was just another day on I-65.

 

[DreamChaser7]

You should try a drive through Tampa. Streets or highway. Actually the stuff I’ve seen these fools manage to accomplish lately in 35-45 mph zones would amaze you. We flip 5 times in those zones!

 

[CrackedDSM]

You should try a drive through Tampa. Streets or highway. Actually the stuff I’ve seen these fools manage to accomplish lately in 35-45 mph zones would amaze you. We flip 5 times in those zones!

No. Don’t do it it’s a trap. Lmao.


I hate Tampa and Orlando so bad that I don’t legitimately care if someone has a mint perfect dsm shell they’ll give me, I’d refuse just because of the traffic and how people drive ALONE.

Never again.

 

[DreamChaser7]

No. Don’t do it it’s a trap. Lmao.


I hate Tampa and Orlando so bad that I don’t legitimately care if someone has a mint perfect dsm shell they’ll give me, I’d refuse just because of the traffic and how people drive ALONE.

Never again.

So mine is safe? Lol