Advice on first mods - 97 gst

[Atuca]

Hey all, i know everyone has to lose their virginity one time or another, and now it is finally my turn!

I have done a full tune up on the car, and fixed some problems with mater and slave clutch, passed smog today, registered the car for the year, and now, i got about 800 bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

As you can see in my profile, i have a completely stock 97 Eclipse GS-T, and it needs fixing. I am not a racer, i hardly accelerate when a riced civic revs his engine at me at a stop light( although sometimes i do and i smoke him, which is always great, being as i just got my first manual transmission and he is all riced up ) ANYWAYS, i am looking for a few lights mods.

My list includes:

BOV (greddy type s perhaps)(which i got a bazillion questions about type S/RS/wtf)
K/N cold air intake (i beleive is the name for it)
maybe exhaust (does it really matter)
maybe front mount intercooler (does it really help?)


that is it really. The exhaust was a "eh, kids like it" front mount intercooler looks nice, but i think they are expensive. BOV is cheapish 200 bucks right? but i have no idea what supporting mods i need and would i want one if it doesn't circulate to the atmospher (i am going for efficency, so if it recirculates to the intake, does it change the sound at all?) and the K/N cold air intake, well, it matters if i get a FMIC right? and well, i looked up eclipse on K/N's website and the only had the square filter, and i thought that you could have the cone one that adds 30 horse power or w/e.

anyways, i need you guys to put your hand in my pocket and spend my money. just don't feel around too much, the pocket ain't toooo deep.

-thanks in advanced
Philip

 

[Atuca]

Well i am getting a second job now, so that means i have plenty of extra money to afford car stuff again. I was looking at getting a 1g BOV still, but need some clarification.

I know that when i get a 1g BOV, it won't work without an adapter. But what if i get the whole 1g BOV pipe?

Of the things i link below, what should i get? they al have a buy out timer, so i figure i could just buy them if i wanted to, although now i am posting it here, hopefully nobody steals them off the internet

Here is the 1g BOV with the 1g pipe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1g-D...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or do i have to buy that and get this flange:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-9...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

which is alot of money, but looks like nice quality.




now of course, i could also just buy a new UICP right, and that could have a 1g BOV flange attached to it, which if needed be in the future could handle a greddy bov. I am looking at getting a FMIC now and a 16g turbo (and i think i need new fuel injectors, but we can get there later) So considering i may buy a new pipe, so thinking of prices and stuff:

What would you guys do?

been a while, but i am back

Can anyone help me with the specific questin here? I know about the 1g BOV adpater plate, just not sure if i need it if i get the hole 1g tube. If someone could shoot my an anser, that would be cool.

 

[Bigglesworth87]

Just pick up an aftermarket upper intercooler pipe that is flanged for a 1g blow off valve. Then buy the 1g blow off valve. Oh and make sure the blow off valve has a fresh gasket. Its really not that hard mang. You still use your stock blow off valve return tube when you hook up the new blow off valve. (see pic below)

http://dsm.dejonpowerhouse.com/

Shown is the dejonpowerhouse.com upper intercooler pipe that is flanged for a 1g bov, and the 1g bov is attached to it and is recirculating through the 2g bov return tube.

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Dont waste your money on all these "parts" if your getting a FMIC. The FMIC kit will have everything you need to hook all this up.

 

[2GeNTSi]

Can anyone help me with the specific questin here? I know about the 1g BOV adpater plate, just not sure if i need it if i get the hole 1g tube. If someone could shoot my an anser, that would be cool.

The 2nd one is the better choice, no modifications needed to install it. Just uninstall your 2g BOV and put this adapter in it's place with the 1g BOV bolted to the flange.

Buuut like some are saying, I would would go with a RRE or DejonPowerhouse UIP flanged for a 1g BOV since the stock plastic UIP is restrictive. Another thing you can do with the install of an aftermarket UIP is get a small piece of tubing and a coupler and remove the silencer attached to the inlet of the SMIC.

Here's the link to the article: http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126079

No pics but it's not really necessary, it'll make sense when your doing it.

 

[rich3389]

why not just get a dave brode UICP for 65 bucks.

 

[Atuca]

So basicly, you're saying I cannot use the 1g pipe that the 1g BOV is connected to. That is what i was looking for. I'll look into the dejon kit as it looks to be the most popular. I was hoping that i could use the 1g pipe for a while before i got a FMIC, not sure how long exactly it will be before I get it, but it will include a upper pipe that will have a flange attached to it as well, right? So basicly I need to decide what I want to buy in the future to make a purchase now.

what I am worried about is buying something I won't need in the future. If i buy a Upper intercooler pipe, if i get a FMIC, will i have to get rid of the pipe, or will the dejon be better than a packaged pipe with a FMIC pipe kit? I am only a little bit confused, but need some clarification. I just noticed that a FMIC requires me to cut my bumper support, so it sounds like it will be it's own piping set up, but i am not sure.

Advice, thanks

 

[2GeNTSi]

Well the piping on that ebay auction is the stock 1g piping, I don't think it would be a direct bolt-on because the bends aren't exactly the same and the bov actually is upside down from the factory on 1gs.

Either choice you make you're going to end up with some money wasted. If you go with just the adapter and bolt the adapter to your stock UIP, getting a FMIC kit COULD replace all of that piping with short route piping. DejonPowehouse actually makes a FMIC kit that is made to bolt up to the SMIC routing.

Go to http://dsm.dejonpowerhouse.com/ ----> 2nd Generation ----> Frontmoun IC

The first kit is the kit that bolts up to stock locations. meaning you could very well just purchase the kit right now, remove your SMIC, and keep your upper piping untouched. I actually have their full upper piping flanged for a 1g BOV and I can use this FMIC kit if I wanted to or I can purchase a kit that includes short route piping. The more "cost effective" would be the first and just keep the piping I already have.

 

[Atuca]

wow that looks like an awsome kit. I was wondering though if going through the stock side mount intercooler instead of short route makes a large difference in performance. When every HP matters, i can see short route would be better, but generally speaking, would going through the stock location be easier and cheaper? This is relavent now as it pertains to what turbo i get and what BOV i get.

 

[forcefed4]

just get the adapter for now, then when you get your frontmount/piping you won't have to sell/throw away anything except for a $25 piece (slowboyracing.com http://www.slowboyracing.com/estore/product.php?productid=6008&cat=1346&page=1), + shipping of course.

 

[2GeNTSi]

Well that's what I was trying to say as well. Personally I'm going with short route piping for fitment reasons resulting from my 6-bolt setup but I would otherwise stay with the piping I already have and purchase the Dejon kit I mentioned. There will be less pressure drop (supposedly) resulting from less distance for the compressed air to travel.

However, the FMIC isn't really a concern of mine right now, I want to get it running right before I make any purchases like the FMIC. As of now the FMIC would be more of a cosmetic purchase because I don't make nearly enough power to be worrying much about cooling issues. The SMIC and the moderate heat in NorCal isn't causing me to go in that direction anytime soon.

But if you do plan on upgrading your turbo in the future as well, then I would do the FMIC at the same time as the turbo upgrade. If you were to purchase the FMIC now with your T-25, than the piping from the oulet of the compressor would route slightly differently as opposed to that of a 16G or some other turbo.

 

[Atuca]

thanks for the link, i wasn't aware that places like that take the time to make adpaters for the 1g BOVs, those 1g BOV must be great. I just figured too if nothing else i could sell the adapter on ebay like everyone else who sells stuff there. I suppose for now i wil jsut order the adapter and the BOV, should be all i need, and will wait on this new job to make monies and order the other stuff i need.

I'll be letting you guys know how everything goes.

 

[Atuca]

yea i think i want to get the 16g turbo, it says it is good up to almost 400 HP on Dejon's website, which is more than enough, although looking back on my first post, i said i wasn't going to upgrade my turbo.. oh well

Tell me how this sounds to you who are helping me:

16g turbo
2.5 inch turbo back exhaust
FMIC with ______ routing (we can discuss whenever u want short or stock pipe routing)
1g BOV (it can handle the psi the 16g puts out right?)

I feel that i should get it all at once jsut because the adpaters i need for everything, if i get a 16g turbo, i have to have a specific FMIC with the adapter to the turbo, and the turbo back exhaust will require a certain connector too right? Last but not least, i want to make sure that if i go with a 1g bov, it will support the plans i have for it in the future.

 

[Bigglesworth87]

If your seriously looking for a stock appearance and want little to no modifications I would suggest a t28 with the fmic setup the runs the piping in the stock locations. Then you dont have to buy the 2g install kit that goes with a 16g setup. A lot of these questions can be answered by searching though.

 

[Mr Peepers]

Remember that with a bigger turbo comes bigger injectors and fuel pump, and with that youll need a fpr and afc, and with that youll need a logger (or at least something to tune with). Thats a lot to buy in one sitting. There is also the fact that this is your only car and thats a lot to do before it will be running again, and once it's running you'll have to tune it. I'm not trying to stop you from doing it, it's very worthwhile especially from the stock t25, but see how happy you are with the boost turned up a little and exhaust on before making too many other plans yet.

-matt(mikeondem422)

 

[Atuca]

Ok, here is an update on my latest purchase!
For those trying to folow this long thread, my goals in th future are for a Evo III 16g turbo. Oh and also note: i am purchasing the UICP with the intention of buying the FMIC kit from the same website. It connects to the stock location, and uses w/e UICP u have, so in the future when i get the FMIC, it will connect to the UICP you buy below.

I bought the following from http://dsm.dejonpowerhouse.com/

UIP-2gA - UPPER INTERCOOLER 'L' PIPE - flanged for a 1g BOV cost 100 dollars

UIP-2gB - UPPER INTERCOOLER 'S' PIPE - 85 dollars

CIP-2gSy- 2.7" & 3"- 2g Curved Intake Pipe - 170 dolalrs
-Size turbo end 2 3/4 (will fit the 16g and the t-25, so you can use it before you get your new turbo)
- Make sure you get the size listed above, CIP-2gSy- 2.7" & 3", the bigger ones are not meant for 16g turbos
-Get the one that comes with all tubes. You need the BOV and Charcoal Cannister Hose and Tube to Valve Cover Vent Hose.


I also purchased a 1g BOV for 30 bucks on ebay, your price may vary, so, after i get this kit installed, i should be hearing a louder BOV sound and engine growl, as well as a (just to give you an idea after some research) anywhere from 3 to 10 horsepower increase.






If I purchased wrong, or said somethnig wrong, please someone currect me, but this is after all the research I could do and with some help from a friend. Should be here in a couple days and i will do a write up afterwards for those who need a way simpled down explanation of how to do it.

thank you all for help in deciding, after this I can look into what next i should buy.

Philip

 

[2GeNTSi]

Your setup is actually exactly how mine used to be. However depending on which version of the 1g BOV you get, it might sound different (at least from my experience). Spool up should be quicker but I don't think there will be a change in sound. The loudest my intake and bov ever sounded was actually with just an open element filter (like the FIPK). With the same exact piping you're purchasing w/ a 1g BOV, it was quieter.

 

[forcefed4]

The Dejon pipes are what I have too, just with a HKS valve instead of a 1g. Just make sure you do a boost leak check after you put everything in, you may get a leak at the gasket that goes between the upper s pipe and the throttle body. Mine leaked and I bought new gaskets, still leaked. I just ended up buying some "Permatex Ultra Copper high temp rtv gasket maker", took the stock metal gasket and spread a thin layer on one side, smoothed it out and let it dry for a day. I then flipped the gasket over and did the same to the other side. Put it back on the car the next day, and no more leaks!

 

[pboglio]

First mod I'd ever make on a 2g by far is an engine management setup with at least some kind of datalogging capability. I'd do it on a STOCK setup even, and I'm doing it on my STOCK WRX STi for the same reason.

I learned the hard way on my 97 GSX. Now on my STi I have the same problem, adding hard parts is useless without grabbing the stock ECU by the throat and controlling it completely. Otherwise performance is all over the place depending on how the ECU is feeling that particular day.

I personally love my DSMLink

 

[Atuca]

Well i got all my new intake and UICP in today, and let me tell you, it takes longer than 30 minutes to install. But, beyond cuts, bruises, pain, and tears, i finally got it all in there, didn't break anything that i can see (that was important anyways) and i have finished pictures of the product, and quite a few questions.

These are all done from dejon as you can see posted above, and there were no install directions, but it was pretty self expanatory, I can't really help you at all except, the bolts up to at the throttle body (i think it is called) really suck coming out.

Here are pics enjoy!

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and in my next post, all the questions

 

[Atuca]

Ok so after getting that all in there, i went for a test drive, didn't change anything else except the pipes and BOV. I noticed (with a friend in the car) that my boost goes up to like over 15 now, than slowly goes down to about 10-11. Before, on stock tubes and BOV, I was at 11-12 PSI and holding.

I know i have a boost leak somewhere, i made a Boost leak tester, and will have to check that. But what I don't understand is why my boost went up, can anyone explain how my boost goes up like 5 psi? I havn't changed anything boost wise, i havn't installed my MBC yet, but i will be soon now i have a real BOV, but I did notice something, something that bothers me, and i am unsure of.

I noticed when taking my old Intake pipe, that there was a tube on the bottom of the intake pipe that i had to take out. And when following to see where it was from, i noticed it was unplugged. It is apparent where it should be plugged in, but i could tell it had been unplugged for miles and miles. There was a charcol substance on the tip, the tube ran from the turbo, hit a "T" coupling to a golden cylinder, and continued to this black thing, that connects from turbo, and out to my intake. Here is a picture (*NOTE* i cleaned the black charcol stuff off the nipple but you can see still what i am talking about)

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The lighter colored tubes goes to the intake on the bottom (required a little connector that went into the tip of the tube into the intake on the bottom side) It looks very apparent to me it would go to the nipple that it is facing. But I could tell it wasn't connected there since before i owned the car. So my question is, why would it be unplugged, why hasn't my car died or continued to run right, and pass smog without it plugged in. And why is there charcol stuff, black charcol stuff coming from my turbo and running back into my intake? it was pretty think, so it boggles my mind. Anyway, if anyone has any ideas, and should i plug it back in, let me know. I have it left unplugged and my car has run fine for 6 motnhs now, still getting 28 mpg, so nothing bad has happened now, but, just tell me what i should do.

 

[Mr Peepers]

Nice job on the setup by the way, especially for doing it all in the dorm parking lot You've come a long way!
The hose you are referring to is for routing the air leaked from the BCS(boost control solenoid) back into the intake tract. It works like this, the BCS is connected to a pressure source(turbo housing or j-pipe) and the wastegate acuator all through a T fitting. When the car is cruising or even in the process of building boost, power is sent to the BCS opening it and allowing air to pass through, and not build up pressure between the wastegate actuator and pressure source. Once the ECU "sees" a certain amount of boost, it cuts off power to the BCS, stopping the air from bleeding out between the wastegate actuator and pressure source. The pressure causes the wastegate actuator to open the wastegate, allowing excess exhaust to bypass the turbo, stopping it from creating any more boost. The ECU then modulates the opening and closing of the BCS to hold a steady boost pressure.
The symptoms of having the tube you are describing disconnected is a boost leak once the wastegate is open, and also a constant vacuum leak from unmetered air being let in past the MAF. Plug that tube back in between the intake and BCS when you get the chance.
What you seem to be describing when the boost goes to 15 or so psi then settling back to 10-12 is boost spike. The increased flow from the hard intake tract may have caused this, but doesn't seem likely to me, maybe you've just never noticed it? Boost spike isn't that uncommon, it may or may not go away once you install your MBC.
Another idea is it's actually the tube from the turbo that's disconnected causing you to run open boost(no control over boost) and it's tapering off in the upper rpms. You still have the stock exhaust on, which could make it only reach 15 psi(with stock exhaust I could only hit 14-15 psi) and taper off in the upper rpm range(I could barely hold 10 to redline).

Either way, reconnect that tube and see what happens.

 

[Atuca]

It is still spiking. I ran the car warm, and re-tightened bolts on the TB, and on all the rubber couplings. I ran the car again and it is still spking at about 16-17psi (more than my turbo can do safely right?) and than jumps immediatly down to 11-12psi and than falls to like 9-10psi.

My car did not do that before the new pipes, so now it just comes down to fixing what i think is a leak, although i don't know how to do a boost leak test exactly, I have the tester, but not sure what to do to prepare the test now.

But, after plugging in the pipe that was explained above, it does the same thing, spiking. Even if I fix boost leaks, it doesn't explain where the spike came from. I am scared to accelerate now, because i know that the t-25 can't handle over 16 psi, and i am spking past that. What caused the spike, how do I fix the spike, and am i safe to drive my car with the spike?

Can someone try and help me?

thanks

 

[Mr Peepers]

Hitting 18 psi at 3k rpm and 6k rpm aren't the same thing, there is much more strain on the turbo at 6k rpm and also with your fuel system. Spiking isn't as bad as boost creep which occurs at higher rpm. The only way I know of to stop boost spike is to shorten the hoses connected to the BCS or MBC as much as possible, minimizing the delay between the boost reaching a certain level and the wastegate opening. Running a MBC instead may help since it opens gradually just before the desired boost level is reached. I have still had boost spike with a MBC, but it depended on the weather same with boost creep.

 

[hun6over]

Make sure the bolts that connect your exhaust manifold to your head is tight.

 

[Atuca]

So i finally got my MBC installed, set it at 14 pounds, and how it seems to work is hit spikes to like 16, than drops to 14 and holds at 14 and maybe loses a pound on the way to redline. Anyways, I beleive that is normal for the set up I have, so, that is pretty cool.

I spent the weekend getting my gauges installed with lights finally, i spent probably a good 6+ hours prepping and degreasing, and paint stripping my valve covor for its new paint job, and that is done now. Used dupli color and am pretty damn happy with it.

I fixed my reverse lights this weekend, sorta. The lights have been monkey rigged in there, and wil need to get new ones to make sure they are working for long term use.


on another note..


I also thought i just throw it out there, i walked into school the other day and found out i got a 15k dollar grant. That makes me have to reconsider all of what i am doing now and in the future. As much as i want to run out and spend some on my car, i probably shouldn't, but it is hard to have that much money available to me and not use some of it to buy, you know, a new exhaust, turbo, the things on my wish list. Not really asking for advice, but that is a new source of income beings my job to pay for school now can go to the car instead.

I'll get pics up in a sec, need to find someone with a digital camera, and if not today, for sure by tomorrow. Not too sure what i want to buy next, stuck between exhaust and getting a paint job (same color) or could jsut skip paint job and go for more "go" instead of "show".

peace guys

 

[2GeNTSi]

I would skip the paint job and get a catback exhaust or something. Judging from your gallery, the paint seems fine unlike my car when I purchased it. I did get a paintjob as one of the first things I did, but that was because the paint was oxidized all over.