Advice on first mods - 97 gst

[Atuca]

Hey all, i know everyone has to lose their virginity one time or another, and now it is finally my turn!

I have done a full tune up on the car, and fixed some problems with mater and slave clutch, passed smog today, registered the car for the year, and now, i got about 800 bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

As you can see in my profile, i have a completely stock 97 Eclipse GS-T, and it needs fixing. I am not a racer, i hardly accelerate when a riced civic revs his engine at me at a stop light( although sometimes i do and i smoke him, which is always great, being as i just got my first manual transmission and he is all riced up ) ANYWAYS, i am looking for a few lights mods.

My list includes:

BOV (greddy type s perhaps)(which i got a bazillion questions about type S/RS/wtf)
K/N cold air intake (i beleive is the name for it)
maybe exhaust (does it really matter)
maybe front mount intercooler (does it really help?)


that is it really. The exhaust was a "eh, kids like it" front mount intercooler looks nice, but i think they are expensive. BOV is cheapish 200 bucks right? but i have no idea what supporting mods i need and would i want one if it doesn't circulate to the atmospher (i am going for efficency, so if it recirculates to the intake, does it change the sound at all?) and the K/N cold air intake, well, it matters if i get a FMIC right? and well, i looked up eclipse on K/N's website and the only had the square filter, and i thought that you could have the cone one that adds 30 horse power or w/e.

anyways, i need you guys to put your hand in my pocket and spend my money. just don't feel around too much, the pocket ain't toooo deep.

-thanks in advanced
Philip

 

[Atuca]

hehe.. I hate you all for knowing that I would want more power. I am selling the GST and picking up a GSX. I'll have pictures up when I finally get it, but I am basicly selling the car to a friend who is letting me take all my GSX compatible mods out of the GST and putting them into my GSX, while giving him back stock parts.

That worked out pretty well

Only thing i lost out on was the exhaust, so I'll be getting to go through the exhaust instal over again, that sounds fun.. NOT >.<

Anyways, I suppose this thread will be dead now as my new car will not be a GST anymore, but wanted to give this thread a proper end, i'll throw a link up to the GSX build up when I start. Thanks again to those of you who helped me get the GST to where it got.

 

[meliketoball]

hehe.. I hate you all for knowing that I would want more power. I am selling the GST and picking up a GSX. I'll have pictures up when I finally get it, but I am basicly selling the car to a friend who is letting me take all my GSX compatible mods out of the GST and putting them into my GSX, while giving him back stock parts.

That worked out pretty well

Only thing i lost out on was the exhaust, so I'll be getting to go through the exhaust instal over again, that sounds fun.. NOT >.<

Anyways, I suppose this thread will be dead now as my new car will not be a GST anymore, but wanted to give this thread a proper end, i'll throw a link up to the GSX build up when I start. Thanks again to those of you who helped me get the GST to where it got.

It's ok GSX exhausts on craigslist don't go for that much.

 

[forcefed4]

Sweet Philip...

I'm doing the same thing right now

 

[Atuca]

Here is the link to the new project car, fair well front wheel drive!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151287536#post151287536

 

[DSMunknown]

Here is the link to the new project car, fair well front wheel drive!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151287536#post151287536

Quitter.

 

[Atuca]

so after going back and forth between the gsx and gst, this car is too god d@mn clean to abandon. i got the fmic off the gsx and am in the process of cleaning the pipping inside and out. just gotta straighten the pins on the core and than putting it on my gst.

i am not sure if i am going to take the knock off 16g yet, i don't know it's history, but i know that the car was stock boost but running bad..

oh wells, pics when i am home and not on cell phone.

 

[Atuca]

alright, so here goes another step in the GST build up, guess I didn;t give up on it after all eh? The AWD swap will still happen but my friend just had his car painted and didn;t want it outside til the paint cured for a month. So, I just nodded and said fine I'll do a new turbo, FMIC, and tubular header install

I got these parts off the GSX, a Godspeed FMIC and piping kit, and a what appears to be a 16g knock off, see the discussion on all these parts here, although unless any one flags me saying I wouldn't install them, I am going for it soon http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273045

I got it all off and will be installing it tomorrow, although I am seriously considering doing it now

I need to get gaskets I guess before I dive in, but should be a direct bolt on turbo. the FMIC doesn't appear to require any cutting of the bumper, was only installed on the GSX by 2 screws and alot of metal wire, but we will see if I can get any more creative than that.

Here are the pics of it all cleaned up, fins straighten out, pipes has excess rtv I can't get off, but that won't affect the cooling performance none eh?

Enjoy!

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[BoostedinSoFla]

Yeah, all those parts looked like they were purchased from Ebay. I haven't heard anything too bad about the Godspeed FMIC and some people have had success with those Ebay 16g's. The manifold says "XO2" but I believe it was also made by SSautochrome for X02.

 

[Atuca]

Ok well I started with the first part of this install, and that was with the FMIC.

Hardest part was probably getting the bumper off of the car

I took the bumper support out of the car, basicly because it was getting late and didn;t have time to cut and reinstall it. Looking at it, and knowing it only is there for <5 mph collisions, and considering its weight, it seems likely I will be leaving it off; of course unless one of you guys convince me other wise

I have it hooked up to my t25 for now, because I want to test it for leaks and run the car for a few days to see how it holds up. Trying to do it one thing at a time to keep problems minimized, and if they arrise troubleshooting will be easy.

My question though is: the t25 was runnning 16psi on the stock intercooling system, but now there is the FMIC, it has more tubing to fill, and therefor would have to work harder to produce the same 16psi right? So knowing that 16psi was max on stock setup, how high should i set the psi to now I have the FMIC?

thanks alot, here are some picture, got the bumper back on when it was late, but I'll get a beter picture later. FYI I was able to keep my fog lights woot! But even if I were to remove the fog lights, the bumper support still was hitting the piping all along the top pipe, so it would take like half of the bumper support off to fit it back on there, so hense the reason I will probably live without it

Oh also, any idea where to put my power steering lines? i routed them behind the FMIC behind that support beam where they were stock. I made sure they wouldn't touch the radiator or the FMIC, but wasn't sure if there was somewhere better to put them.

And lastly for the last time, I noticed the FMIC is not level. The brackets are installed right, but the FMIC is not straight. I suppose I will have to go and bend some metal, but the brackets are pretty sturdy for what looks like home made supports.

Peace!

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[DSMunknown]

I hate that style FMIC.

 

[kenamond]

I hate that style FMIC.

Party pooper!

My question though is: the t25 was runnning 16psi on the stock intercooling system, but now there is the FMIC, it has more tubing to fill, and therefor would have to work harder to produce the same 16psi right? So knowing that 16psi was max on stock setup, how high should i set the psi to now I have the FMIC?

The volume of piping isn't going to affect things like you're thinking. The turbo is going to pump out 16psi and it's up to that 16psi to fill what's there. Although 16psi is probably pushing the T25 a bit too hard, all you're doing is cooling the air down more with the FMIC. That gives you more air at the same boost level, and that air is cooler.

And if you had the stock UICP before, you're also decreasing the restriction of the air flow between the IC and the TB by adding the large IC pipes. Now because you're regulating boost by getting your source from the "horse's mouth" (the compressor outlet) but measuring boost from the IM (boost gauge), and the IC piping is between the two, the pressure drop between turbo and IM is "hidden" from you. An example: If you have 16psi at the boost gauge, but you have 2psi drop between the turbo and IM, the turbo is actually running at more like 18psi. If you can chip away at that 2psi drop (by improving flow, decreasing restrictions), the turbo can still be at 18psi while you're seeing, say, 17psi boost at the IM. It's like trying to blow through a coffee straw vs. a McDonald's™ straw. That stock UICP is the coffee straw, the FMIC pipe kit is the McDonald's™ straw.

 

[Atuca]

ok well i have the Dejon UICP already, and the FMIC runs through the stock location ending at the L pipe. With that said, what should I set my MBC to while I have the t25? is 15 pounds safer?

Than question 2, I have that knock off 16g, what can/should I put the boost at with the stock fuel injectors? My 1g BOV goes to 18 safe right, so would I run 18 pounds safly, or do I need a logger at that point. I know I know I need to get one, but until I do, what is safe for me to do?

thanks you guys!

 

[kenamond]

ok well i have the Dejon UICP already, and the FMIC runs through the stock location ending at the L pipe. With that said, what should I set my MBC to while I have the t25? is 15 pounds safer?

Than question 2, I have that knock off 16g, what can/should I put the boost at with the stock fuel injectors? My 1g BOV goes to 18 safe right, so would I run 18 pounds safly, or do I need a logger at that point. I know I know I need to get one, but until I do, what is safe for me to do?

thanks you guys!

I'd put the logger on the top of your list. My wife got a PalmIIIxe for $1 at a thrift store a month ago. The interface (cable) and software are gonna add ~$125.

If you don't get a logger, leave the boost below 15psi (I'd do 13 or 14). I'm not sure how much air the knockoff 16g will flow at that boost, but if it's more than the T25 and you're cooling better, you may start to run into some problems with fuel and/or knock, but you'd have no idea without a logger. Or maybe you'd be fine. It's your motor. But if you have a logger, you can find out how high you can safely go...which might be alot more.

 

[Atuca]

Well, time for an update!

I got the knock off 16g in the car. Don't laugh, but I got home from work at 11pm, I made myself snack, than went outside at 1am under a roadside lamp to start working on my car, because the apartments said I can't work on my car on the lot.

It took me until about 10am to get the t25 out of the car, and the 16g in there. I had an oil leak from the oil return line that basicly wasted 3 quarts of oil after I refilled the oil in the car. Once I fixed that leak, I took it for a test drive. By the time all was said and done, it was 2pm by the time the car was able to be driven again, just over the time it took me to do my exhaust install

Now for the results. The 16g was hooked up t-ed to the BOV lines because there was no nipple to connect for a boost source. I know it is not the best, but I needed to control the boost. Well.. that failed. The turbo was boosting way out of control, on my first take off (with the MBC screw about one turn from falling out it was so loose) the car boosted to over 20psi before a coupling on the FMIC blew off and basicly saved my engine I think. It was at under 0 psi until i hit like 3k, than litterally jumped/spiked to over 20 in about a second. I don't have any idea why I cannot control the boost, but I am driving now keeping an eye on the boost and being careful to not WOT, but is there anyway I can fix the wastegate, as that is the only thing I can think can be broken.

My guess is that the GSX which had no boost gauge and was hooked up wastegate -> stock boost controller -> intake pipe, I think the turbo over boosted that engine and that is why it no longer runs at all, just my guess.

Anyways, besides not being able to control the boost, there is another problem. The turbo is burning coolant, or at least now with the new turbo my coolant is running low, and I have to keep refilling it. I don't see any leaks, so is there something internally that could allow it to leak or burn? My engine hasn't over heated at all, but I would like to fix these two problems.

Lastly, my check engine light came on My guess is exhaust leak, because I didn't torque wrench the manifold bolts, but hopefully that is all it is, I will get that checked out at kragen or autozone with their renting tool to check the ECU, and if it is some other code, I'll be back to ask for help.

That is all folks, if you got any ideas on my problems, let me know.

Thanks!

p.s. I decided to not use the tubular header because it would require getting a new gasket and I will have to order it online. Once I order it I will throw on the header, because that is only a few screws to pull off. And I was able to get all the bolts off my car without any liquids without too much difficulty, and I didn't break any bolts. I know I was supposed to get new bolts and anti seize, but I just don't have the resources. I wish I was richer >.<

 

[kenamond]

Well, time for an update!

I got the knock off 16g in the car. Don't laugh, but I got home from work at 11pm, I made myself snack, than went outside at 1am under a roadside lamp to start working on my car, because the apartments said I can't work on my car on the lot.

It took me until about 10am to get the t25 out of the car, and the 16g in there. I had an oil leak from the oil return line that basicly wasted 3 quarts of oil after I refilled the oil in the car. Once I fixed that leak, I took it for a test drive. By the time all was said and done, it was 2pm by the time the car was able to be driven again, just over the time it took me to do my exhaust install

Now for the results. The 16g was hooked up t-ed to the BOV lines because there was no nipple to connect for a boost source. I know it is not the best, but I needed to control the boost. Well.. that failed. The turbo was boosting way out of control, on my first take off (with the MBC screw about one turn from falling out it was so loose) the car boosted to over 20psi before a coupling on the FMIC blew off and basicly saved my engine I think. It was at under 0 psi until i hit like 3k, than litterally jumped/spiked to over 20 in about a second. I don't have any idea why I cannot control the boost, but I am driving now keeping an eye on the boost and being careful to not WOT, but is there anyway I can fix the wastegate, as that is the only thing I can think can be broken.

My guess is that the GSX which had no boost gauge and was hooked up wastegate -> stock boost controller -> intake pipe, I think the turbo over boosted that engine and that is why it no longer runs at all, just my guess.

Anyways, besides not being able to control the boost, there is another problem. The turbo is burning coolant, or at least now with the new turbo my coolant is running low, and I have to keep refilling it. I don't see any leaks, so is there something internally that could allow it to leak or burn? My engine hasn't over heated at all, but I would like to fix these two problems.

Lastly, my check engine light came on My guess is exhaust leak, because I didn't torque wrench the manifold bolts, but hopefully that is all it is, I will get that checked out at kragen or autozone with their renting tool to check the ECU, and if it is some other code, I'll be back to ask for help.

That is all folks, if you got any ideas on my problems, let me know.

Thanks!

p.s. I decided to not use the tubular header because it would require getting a new gasket and I will have to order it online. Once I order it I will throw on the header, because that is only a few screws to pull off. And I was able to get all the bolts off my car without any liquids without too much difficulty, and I didn't break any bolts. I know I was supposed to get new bolts and anti seize, but I just don't have the resources. I wish I was richer >.<

Not too awefully bad on time for your first turbo swap.

Did you do a boost leak test yet?

You're going to have to spend some more money.

First thing is the anti-seize. It comes in ketchup packets, and Autozone gives them to me if I buy a set of plugs or wires or something. You'd probably need a few packets (like if you had some fries ). They also sell big bottles of it, but it'd take you years to go through that unless you're a mechanic.

Also, get a vaccuum/pressure tester. If you have a boost leak tester, you can use it to also test what I'm getting to...the WGA. If you bypass the MBC and run a vac line straight from the BOV line (fix that!) and the WGA nipple, the WGA arm should start moving at around 8-10psi of boost pressure. If you boost leak test up to 20psi, you'll see how far the WGA arm moves the lever...make a note of this. Then you can take the arm off the WG lever on the housing and turn the lever by hand the same amount it was moving during the pressure test. Also, you can test the car with the vaccuum line straight from the BOV line (fix this!) to the WGA and see if it holds around 10psi boost. If it does, your MBC isn't hooked up right, is set incorrectly (if it's a bleeder, tightening lowers boost on many models), or just isn't working. You can search to find out more about checking your WG system or ask Mack-the-pushover.

Get a torque wrench when you can afford a desent one. You'll use that thing a lot on your car. Borrowing one is okay, but you need to be careful; if someone before you dropped it, it can be WAY off, and you don't want to strip your head or break/strip bolts/studs/nuts or undertorque things because of this. So if you buy one, TAKE CARE OF IT!! It's not just a big ratchet.

Don't know about the coolant disappearing. If you pulled the radiator hose off, it might be leaking there. Stock hose has a spring clamp rather than a worm-gear clamp. Mine leaked on the stock clamp, so I took it off, cleaned off the aluminum side, put a hose clamp on, problem solved. Check for leaks when the car is fully warm (don't pull the radiator cap off!). Check for water in your oil (your oil will look obviously wrong). Check your overflow bottle, too. Any sweet-smelling white smoke out the exhaust tips? And DON'T LET IT OVERHEAT. Watch the temp gauge very frequently until you figure this out.

And boost leak test!

 

[Atuca]

When I drained the coolant, I just removed the coolant lines from the turbo and let it drain, I didn't touch the radiator. The only place I can see there being a leak would be a crack in the rubber lines and it must leak when under pressure when I don't see it, because anywhere I parked, I looked for leaks and I see none. I was told perhaps it is leaking under pressure and than being burned off because the engine is so hot right there. If turbos can't burn coolant, than it has to be a leak somewhere.

I havn't done a boost leak test, and I know there is leaks. There are 4-5 couplings, 10 new points to leak from, I am pretty sure somewhere there will be a leak. I did get some rtv gasket maker, so I will go and redo all the piping. But a boost leak should cuase boost spike, so that wasn't the first thing on my to do list. Basicly I had to have the car running that next day by 3pm, so I had to rush to get the car running again to get to work (sucks having the gst as my DD, limits how long I can work on it)

And as far as the anti seize is, yea, I know I should, I'll do that, but I need to get new bolts as well, and gaskets and stuff. But all of this shouldn't affect the two problems I have with coolant and boost, but the undertorqued bolts may affect the check engine light. In fact I am almost 100% sure I have an exhaust leak, while I can't feel any leak, I know that i was careful and scared when tightening the bolts down, so I will have to get back on that asap.

Thanks alot Mack.

 

[kenamond]

When I drained the coolant, I just removed the coolant lines from the turbo and let it drain, I didn't touch the radiator. The only place I can see there being a leak would be a crack in the rubber lines and it must leak when under pressure when I don't see it, because anywhere I parked, I looked for leaks and I see none. I was told perhaps it is leaking under pressure and than being burned off because the engine is so hot right there. If turbos can't burn coolant, than it has to be a leak somewhere.

I havn't done a boost leak test, and I know there is leaks. There are 4-5 couplings, 10 new points to leak from, I am pretty sure somewhere there will be a leak. I did get some rtv gasket maker, so I will go and redo all the piping. But a boost leak should cuase boost spike, so that wasn't the first thing on my to do list. Basicly I had to have the car running that next day by 3pm, so I had to rush to get the car running again to get to work (sucks having the gst as my DD, limits how long I can work on it)

And as far as the anti seize is, yea, I know I should, I'll do that, but I need to get new bolts as well, and gaskets and stuff. But all of this shouldn't affect the two problems I have with coolant and boost, but the undertorqued bolts may affect the check engine light. In fact I am almost 100% sure I have an exhaust leak, while I can't feel any leak, I know that i was careful and scared when tightening the bolts down, so I will have to get back on that asap.

Thanks alot Mack.

No problem.

If you have to take something apart, that's when you want the antiseize in there - even with old bolts.

If you have a leak in your vaccum line controlling your WGA, that's a boost leak, and that can cause you to overboost. Take a chunk of vaccuum line in to Autozone and ask for 6 feet of it. It's cheap, and you'll end up using it here and there. Then bypass the MBC and see if you hold 10psi. That's a very fast thing to test...but it may still give deceiving results if you have boost leaks. Still worth trying, but don't forget that boost leak test. Did you boost leak test the car before the turbo swap? If not, you may have several that've been there for a while, not just at the couplers.

 

[Atuca]

So the CEL was code P0170, blah blah fuel trim bank 1. According to everyone on the forums, i need a new 02 sensors, but sence i just used the old one form the GSX, i'll get my old o2 from the t25 o2 housing and put it on the gst, hopefully it solves my mpg problem.

I havn't done a boost leak test (i need a bike pump or something to get pressure) but i did rtv all the couplings and hopefully fixed any leaks if they were to exist. However, my boost is still out of control, although it does seems to be more manageable, doesn't spike too high like it was before.

I did however find a crack in my stock header, has black soot on the heat shiled above it. i saw the crack there before but didn't notice the soot, so I guess the tubular header is going on, so i bought the gasket and will put it on there when I have time, which is hard to find like always

That is the update, feel free to comment on boost out of control ideas, or know a way for me to test the wastegate because at this point that is all I can think of.

Peace!

 

[kenamond]

So the CEL was code P0170, blah blah fuel trim bank 1. According to everyone on the forums, i need a new 02 sensors, but sence i just used the old one form the GSX, i'll get my old o2 from the t25 o2 housing and put it on the gst, hopefully it solves my mpg problem.

I havn't done a boost leak test (i need a bike pump or something to get pressure) but i did rtv all the couplings and hopefully fixed any leaks if they were to exist. However, my boost is still out of control, although it does seems to be more manageable, doesn't spike too high like it was before.

I did however find a crack in my stock header, has black soot on the heat shiled above it. i saw the crack there before but didn't notice the soot, so I guess the tubular header is going on, so i bought the gasket and will put it on there when I have time, which is hard to find like always

That is the update, feel free to comment on boost out of control ideas, or know a way for me to test the wastegate because at this point that is all I can think of.

Peace!

Bike pump won't work. Get an 11 gallon portable air tank for $40 at a hardware store and charge it to 100psi at a gas station. Then do a boost leak test. You can also test the WGA while you're at it.