Advice on first mods - 97 gst

[Atuca]

Hey all, i know everyone has to lose their virginity one time or another, and now it is finally my turn!

I have done a full tune up on the car, and fixed some problems with mater and slave clutch, passed smog today, registered the car for the year, and now, i got about 800 bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

As you can see in my profile, i have a completely stock 97 Eclipse GS-T, and it needs fixing. I am not a racer, i hardly accelerate when a riced civic revs his engine at me at a stop light( although sometimes i do and i smoke him, which is always great, being as i just got my first manual transmission and he is all riced up ) ANYWAYS, i am looking for a few lights mods.

My list includes:

BOV (greddy type s perhaps)(which i got a bazillion questions about type S/RS/wtf)
K/N cold air intake (i beleive is the name for it)
maybe exhaust (does it really matter)
maybe front mount intercooler (does it really help?)


that is it really. The exhaust was a "eh, kids like it" front mount intercooler looks nice, but i think they are expensive. BOV is cheapish 200 bucks right? but i have no idea what supporting mods i need and would i want one if it doesn't circulate to the atmospher (i am going for efficency, so if it recirculates to the intake, does it change the sound at all?) and the K/N cold air intake, well, it matters if i get a FMIC right? and well, i looked up eclipse on K/N's website and the only had the square filter, and i thought that you could have the cone one that adds 30 horse power or w/e.

anyways, i need you guys to put your hand in my pocket and spend my money. just don't feel around too much, the pocket ain't toooo deep.

-thanks in advanced
Philip

 

[Atuca]

I only said paint because i have spidering on the back bumper, nicks in the paint all over the hood and front bumper from rocks and ect, the side skirt is fading, but eh.. it realy would only be for looks. So basicly I will probably pass on it, but still, I want it >.<

my eyes are back on the turbo back exhaust, but need to decide on what brand and ect. I have been through a bunch of q and a with exhaust, so keep an eye on this thread for the "do you guys like this exhaust" posts

 

[Atuca]

Ok so i skipped the do you guys like this or that, and just jumped on the ebay cart-de-cheapo-o-stuff.

I purchased a 3 inch N1 catback for 250 shipped. It was alot cheaper than magnaflow exhausts from prices cheap as 700 to over 900 for a turbo back. I will be purchasing a high flow cat and a downpipe to complete my turbo back exhaust, and expect to be under 450 for the complete system, well under the price of a pre-made set.

I got the system about 15 mins ago, so I opened the package and was a bit unhappy seeing the package material just one layer of bubble wrap around each pipe, but I was happy seeing the pipes were unscratched, and the pipes look as nicely welded as any pictures of other exhausts I have seen.

I will be getting it installed probably friday, I have to go to my sister's High School graduation thursday, but than while I am at home, I will have access to ramps and jack stands. I am expecting trouble with the stock cat bolts, but I will let you know how it goes in the end. If you have any advice for the install, go ahead and comment, but I think I'll get the best knowledge crawling under there myself.

Other than that, i painted my valve cover gunmetal and polished the letters last week, but havn't had access to a camera, but will have one this weekened, and I will post pictures of the exhaust and valve cover asap.

That is the update on the car, let you all know how it turns out.

 

[Atuca]

I could give you the long story, but basicly, it took me not 2-3 hours to install my new exhaust, but a total of 11 hours, all on thursday. I am sunburnt, bruised, sore, and found out that it is possible to bruise fingers simply by fighting with a wrench.

Of course the hardest bolts to remove were the cat bolts, and putting it all back together was easy, except the putting the nuts back ont he studds on the cat. I can't wait to get the high flow cat and down pipe, and rid my car of bolts rusted so badly.

Anways, I will have to give it a few days to break in, but right now I am in love with the exhaust. Here are some pics, and I now have the utmost respect for anyone who has installed their own exhaust system.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Enjoy, and as a bonus surprise, a picture of my new valve cover; please excuse the plastic crap all broken, I will be looking to purchase a new metal cover for it in a bit.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[methodgirl97]

For someone who is "new to all this" you seem to be right on track with self mods... Now you can discover the headache of lowering your own car... ahha THE SUSPENSION IS FUN!!! (first time you'll want to punch something if you don't have the right tools to compress the springs, but after that... aint no thing. Everything else seems like cake water )

- Girl-

 

[eclipseGSTud]

Did you spray pb blaster or the equivalent on the exhaust bolts the night before the exhaust system install? That would've made it much easier. Congrats on the install. Your car is looking good.

 

[Atuca]

All i had was WD40 and i just sprayed it on about 2 hours before i got started, and than every second i could remember while removing the bolts. They were rusted all the way from start to finish, and even with using leverage, the car was only 6-8 inches off the ground and only yielded maybe a 1/4 of a turn each time I used the breaker bar. So it was first hard just to break it lose a bit, than took like an hour to have enough energy to take 1/4 turns and get the nut all the way off the bolt. I am not saying someone else could have had an easier time, but I am a small fry, i weigh 125 lbs, these bolts kicked my ass.

I am now looking to get a 3 inch downpipe and high flow cat, and I am not even looking foward slightly to the install of the downpipe. I will be for sure getting the right liquid wrench and still end up fighting with it all day. After the exhaust is a 3 inch turbo back, I am not sure what i'll be doing next, but if i am still looking to get a evo3 16g, I will probably need fuel injectors and fuel pump, but we'll get there when the time is right.

And trust me, I am new to all of this, I am just going in there pretty much blind, and only knowledge I have if from these forums. So thank you to all you tuners who have helped me, I know I probably saved myself hundreds of dollars doing these installs myself; I know for the exhaust it could have been over a 100 bucks to have a shop install it.

Being proud of self installs = awsome sauce

 

[forcefed4]

Looking good Philip! How did you like getting the last piece with the muffler on it out from over the rear suspension?

 

[Atuca]

you know that would be part of the 11 hour struggle to get the damn exhaust on the car. More than half the battle was getting the old exhaust off!

After about 30 minutes of trying every angle i could imagine, needing just a bit more this way or that way to get it off, i smarted up. The car was just on these 6-8 inch red ramps, but was like, how can i get this thing higher? I went and got the jack and got the car maybe another inch or two off the ground, and the muffler just dropped out. I was pissed, scrapped up a good portion of the underneath of my car (well at least got alot of dirt and grime off ) but with the car still a bit higher, got the new muffler over the rear suspension, and than set the car back down on the ramps.

The rear suspension removal of the old muffler took a while to do, but by far was not the hardest part on my body, I was just so tired from getting the 3 bolts off over the suspenion (ended up breaking all 3 bolts) that when i realized it wasn't just going to slip over the suspension and come out, i was pissed and didn't think it through and started yanking.

I'd do a proper write up on taking off an exhaust, but 1) I don't want to think about it ever again, and 2) I am not sure how in a write up say "you have to use the f word here to get it to blah blah" After this experience, I am sure the use of vocabulary is a tool a mechanic should learn to use.

 

[kenamond]

This thread dropped off for a while and I thought it got merged or something where I couldn't find it ever again.

Sounds like you finally got your hands dirty!

Go get some PB Blaster. It's about as important as a breaker bar. Nice to get bolts off instead of breaking them.

The DP shouldn't be a big deal. The bolts on the O2 housing are huge and are positioned so that you can get a lot of leverage on them. The bolts on the other end will probably be as bad as any of the other exhaust bolts you toiled with.

I finally ran into someone the other day who has a 98 GSX with mods (I'd never met another DSM owner in person who had any mods up to that point). My car was acting up (bad CAS), so I was waiting in a parking lot for it to start (waiting is one solution to my problem). He had about $10k into his car, but I soon found that he payed someone else to do all of the upgrades. Apparently, it ran poorly, and I diagnosed that it was major boost leaks and not recirculating his Greddy BOV. He copped out and said he'd have someone take a look at it when they installed and tuned his AEM EMS that's been on his shelf for 2 years.

Anyway, doing it yourself rocks!

 

[2GeNTSi]

For the catback, if you had removed the two bolts holding the sway bar in place, it would've cleared up some room because the sway bar would be able to move downward out of the way a bit more. But I definitely didn't have fun installing mine a long time ago, my catback actually was routed through stock locations which made it even more difficult.

The downpipe is a breeze after two or three times, I can go from start to finish in about 1/2 hr taking my time. I think you might have difficulty taking the hangers off but since you already broke loose the nuts on the cat, they should be farely easy to remove next time around. The two nuts holding the downpipe to the o2 housing should be farely easy to remove as well, you'll have plenty of room for leverage, just remember put anti-seize before installing the new one.

I don't know if you looked into RRE, but they might be your best bet for the downpipe w/ hiflow cat.

 

[Atuca]

Actually just today i was looking around for a DP that also left room for a cat, and RRE did come up. My cat back was routed through the stock location, all 3 inches of it went up and over the axel, and while the car was raised a bit mroe with the jack, the new exhaust pipe went right over and set in place in less than a minute of fiddlen around.

I do hope this thread is never merged; this thread is litterally a ground up stock eclipse build up to what ever I can afford to get it to. I never imagined doing the amount of mods I have, and looking at the rest of the tuners, I havn't even done much anything. I think it was like the second or third post on the thread that said I was going to get the mod bug, and damn it, i think it bit me.

I will never want to get under my car again, if you didn't notice, the ground I was working on was rocks (see pics above) and the 1/4 inch cardboard wasn't as comfortable as i thought it was after an hour laying on it, those rocks were protruding through the cardboard.

So to keep it fast as possible, I will be getting pb blaster for the next exhaust adventure.

and if it has been long enough, I have a few questions:

First off, a exhaust is only as good as it weakest point, so until I get the DP and high flow cat, my exhaust isn't any better is it? So it is in my favor to get the DP and cat asap. However, with my current t25, will I be running into boost creep issues that will be out of my control? Should I be waiting for the purchase of the rest of this exhaust?

Second, I live in California, so being smog natzi capital of the world, is there any reason I should keep my stock exhaust system? The cat back I have has the hole for the 02 sensor, so as long as I have a cat, i am legal, right, and able to smog my car legally? Are there any laws against exhausts? Are there CARB numbers for exhausts I should have? Eleborate please.

That is it really, if I could get those questions answered, I would be happy for a few more.. err.. days i guess

 

[eclipseGSTud]

I have a few questions:

First off, a exhaust is only as good as it weakest point, so until I get the DP and high flow cat, my exhaust isn't any better is it? So it is in my favor to get the DP and cat asap. However, with my current t25, will I be running into boost creep issues that will be out of my control? Should I be waiting for the purchase of the rest of this exhaust?

Second, I live in California, so being smog natzi capital of the world, is there any reason I should keep my stock exhaust system? The cat back I have has the hole for the 02 sensor, so as long as I have a cat, i am legal, right, and able to smog my car legally? Are there any laws against exhausts? Are there CARB numbers for exhausts I should have? Eleborate please.

That is it really, if I could get those questions answered, I would be happy for a few more.. err.. days i guess

You shouldn't get boost creep issues. I don't have any issues with boost creep on my current exhaust setup. The stock downpipe and cat are restricting the gains you would get from the N1 catback you have, so its best you get the aftermarket downpipe and high flow cat as soon as possible. I can't say for certain about all smog places in CA, but the ones I've been to don't care if you have an aftermarket exhaust as long as you have a working cat. You should be fine. Check your PMs please. I sent you a PM about your stock exhaust. What is your budget for upgrades?

RRE sells a short downpipe and high flow cat that will fit perfectly with your N1 exhaust, but its pretty expensive. Don't buy those catalytic convertors on ebay, 99% of those I saw on ebay are test pipes not cats. Also, if you have time you could port out the o2 housing to free up the exhaust flow even more. The o2 housing is also a bottleneck.

 

[kenamond]

First off, a exhaust is only as good as it weakest point, so until I get the DP and high flow cat, my exhaust isn't any better is it? So it is in my favor to get the DP and cat asap. However, with my current t25, will I be running into boost creep issues that will be out of my control? Should I be waiting for the purchase of the rest of this exhaust?

Making any section of the exhaust larger will decrease the backpressure in the exhaust which will help with spoolup, power, and high-end turbine flow.

If the ground is flat enough, get a sheet of 1/4" plywood to work on. You won't feel the rocks through it.

 

[Atuca]

MY budget? what is the budget for anyone? As much as they can spare and still have enough for the dollar menu to eat

I never have enough money, but I may have 200-300 bucks left and will have to lay low for a bit. Gotta pay rent, so.. yea.. I want to get the DP and cat, but, I am not sure if my cash flow will allow that as of now.

If smog shops allow you to have an aftermarket exhaust, why do people want the stock exhaust? The only reason I can see wanting one is to either A) sell the car stock and you plan on buying another eclipse (same model even) or B) for smog/reff reasons.

Still waiting for someone to elaborate on that.

 

[FrankNstein]

I'm also crawling down the mod trail on the cheap. 3" Pacesetter downpipe was finished better than the brand's reputation leads you to expect. 3" hi flow from Catco was about $70. I cut off the flange on the 3" catback and it all went on nice with the fat band style clamps. No boost creep on the t25 set at 15 psi. Porting for the 14b sitting on the workbench is underway. Next mods should be a 1G TB and screen the inner fender for better side mount flow.
E.

 

[Atuca]

actually I was just going to ask that, that is amazing. I was looking for the 1g TB, but than i came across a 1g gsx and was like, what parts do I need off the 1g for the 14b to go into my car? I will research it, I havn't at all, but any info you guys know, and any I will find, I will post right here

Have a great day!

 

[Atuca]

For kicks here is the link to the 14b into the 2g. Just as a note, why did I buy a 2g when everything I want is from a 1g

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92558

If I can get the 14b for 50 bucks or w/e from a junkyard, I'll pick it up, otherwise I will get the 16g as previously decided. The 14b would be temperary and would just go in there while I finish getting the supporting mods for the 16g.

I was at a junkyard today, found a 2g and got random parts off of it, and found a few turboed 1gs, and found that there are never engines in them. I was lucky enough to be there as they set a 1g GS down, and didn't see any damage to the car, it looked perfectly good. Not a turbo, but homefully I can be lucky enough to be dropped a turboed car in front of me one day

For an update on the exhaust, I THINK I am going to go with an RRE short downpipe ( $230, same price as my whole cat back) and this awsome looking High Flow cat

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars...003QQitemZ130119234080QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

only 60 bucks shipped. But I don't see anythign about ODBII legal, so, will it pass smog if I have that cat?



So anyways, more random knowledge, I am getting my door handle painted red today (they are charging me 40 bucks /ok? ), so after about 6 months of having a black door handle on a GST, I will finally look like a turbo from the side

That is all the info I have for you folks today. Good day!

 

[Bigglesworth87]

Be sure to keep all your stock pieces so your not SOL come time for smogging the car.

 

[2GeNTSi]

^^ I agree for sure, even if you will be running the hi-flow cat setup, I would just swap the stock dp and cat when smog time comes around just to avoid any problems. The Southbay PD don't seem to care much about imports, but that doesn't mean you won't get pulled over for another reason besides profiling.

 

[kenamond]

^^ I agree for sure, even if you will be running the hi-flow cat setup, I would just swap the stock dp and cat when smog time comes around just to avoid any problems. The Southbay PD don't seem to care much about imports, but that doesn't mean you won't get pulled over for another reason besides profiling.

I'm so glad I live in a small town. Emissions inspection?! What the hell is that?!

I should invent a "quick release" exhaust mount system so you guys could swap out the whole thing more quickly.

And spending $230 on a DP when you haven't even picked a turbo seems rediculous. Make a decision on what turbo and O2 housing you're gonna use (or O2 eliminator) first. If it won't bolt on to your T25, wait until you have the cash for it all. Don't buy parts twice or get stuck owning a part that limits you on future parts that make real power (like a turbo). With the 14b, you need an install kit, so it's not gonna just be $50. Think this through or you're gonna spend more than you need to to get where you want to be.

Maybe you got cash flowing out your cornhole. If so, give me the amount I can save you If not, do your homework and save some cash.

 

[phreak965]

hey, i'm not sure if someone warned you before (i'm not reading this novel of a thread) but don't get a mbc if you don't have a boost gauge, you can REALLY eff up your turbo by not limiting it and the stock boost gauge is a piece of poop (so you can't really test boost off that. also sure your k&n filter can get ya a 30hp gain but thats w/ extensive modding on top of the air filter, that's how they rate them. going from stock everything else you'd be lucky to get 10. just my 2 cents

 

[FrankNstein]

Buy a can of color matched paint on the internet. I got Mitsu red, clear, and a touch up pen for about $25. The pen makes the rock chips in the hood go away and the spray covers up the yellow curb scrapes on the bumper. Turbochargers.com has a good 2g install kit for your 14b-16g, etc., $150. Yes, I too only have about $100 in my 14b, but I plan to break it and upgrade. ;-) Lotek has the 3 gauge A pillar mount for your boost gauge, etc., $50, only brand that fits the Spyder.
E.

 

[DSMunknown]

Of course the hardest bolts to remove were the cat bolts

I've tried this before, and never again will I try it again on an OEM exhaust system. A pure waste of time and energy. Get a sawzall.

I am not saying someone else could have had an easier time, but I am a small fry, i weigh 125 lbs, these bolts kicked my ass.

I'm in the same boat. I waited seven f****ing years to upgrade my exhaust system. Talk about patience.

The rust on both ends of the catalytic converter were so bad that PB Blaster couldn't do sh*t. Rust had covered over much of the threading. I tried almost everything: propane torch, PB Blaster, tapping the bolts, breaker bar, and those "breaker caps" that are placed on stubborn bolts to dislodge them (I forget their "official" name, but they have the teeth on the inside rim and when turned counter-clockwise for unscrewing a bolt, the teeth bite into the bolt, give you better grip and thus more leverage on the bolt).

During the fall and winter of '06 I tried to take off all the exhaust bolts to put Anti Seize on them for the future ease of the uninstall process in the months ahead. It just wasn't happening. So after going through two cans of PB Blaster, a couple hours with the torch, and a few other things thrown in there, I wasn't about to go and try those routes again.

Basically, I took a saw-zall to the old pipe right before the axle-back exhaust flange. After that, I took off the two bolts holding the DP to the O2 housing and dropped the entire POS to the ground and didn't look back.

The rear suspension removal of the old muffler took a while to do, but by far was not the hardest part on my body, I was just so tired from getting the 3 bolts off over the suspenion (ended up breaking all 3 bolts) that when i realized it wasn't just going to slip over the suspension and come out, i was pissed and didn't think it through and started yanking.

Odd. I never touched my suspension. Guess the sawzall took care of that for me.

I'd do a proper write up on taking off an exhaust, but 1) I don't want to think about it ever again, and 2) I am not sure how in a write up say "you have to use the f word here to get it to blah blah" After this experience, I am sure the use of vocabulary is a tool a mechanic should learn to use.

I think most of us become sea-worthy sailors when working on our cars. I know I do.

Anyway, doing it yourself rocks!

Yeah, how long have we been saying that?

Actually just today i was looking around for a DP that also left room for a cat, and RRE did come up. My cat back was routed through the stock location, all 3 inches of it went up and over the axel, and while the car was raised a bit mroe with the jack, the new exhaust pipe went right over and set in place in less than a minute of fiddlen around.

I also vote for an RRE downpipe. I've got mine on and the fitment is terrific.

First off, a exhaust is only as good as it weakest point, so until I get the DP and high flow cat, my exhaust isn't any better is it? So it is in my favor to get the DP and cat asap. However, with my current t25, will I be running into boost creep issues that will be out of my control? Should I be waiting for the purchase of the rest of this exhaust?

As everyone has been saying, get a reliable boost/vac gauge (click here to see one) and an MBC (look into a Joe P. MBC; I picked up mine for 38 dollars shipped. To see one, click here). I also installed my unported Lancer Evolution III O2 housing, three inch RRE downpipe and do not have any creep issues with my OEM T-25 snail. (If you noticed, I didn't mention my ca-back exhaust system. I actually have a Thermal exhaust system, but I'm having a local trusted shop take the blasted neck-down out and replacing it so it'll be a true three inch system. Right now I'm running an open downpipe. My Thermal axle-back exhaust is currently installed, though. )

And spending $230 on a DP when you haven't even picked a turbo seems rediculous. Make a decision on what turbo and O2 housing you're gonna use (or O2 eliminator) first. If it won't bolt on to your T25, wait until you have the cash for it all. Don't buy parts twice or get stuck owning a part that limits you on future parts that make real power (like a turbo). With the 14b, you need an install kit, so it's not gonna just be $50. Think this through or you're gonna spend more than you need to to get where you want to be.

Mack has already said it, but it needs to be said again. Start planning. Don't just buy a downpipe that is only good for your current setup and will limit you if you plan on upgrading to a better performing turbocharger.

I have just spent good money on a new three inch DP, Lancer Evolution O2 housing, and cat-back exhaust system. Of course, I have planned it out so it will compliment a Lancer Evolution III turbocharger when the time comes. Fortunately, the new O2 housing bolted right up to the OEM turbocharger. These items are a nice upgrade now, but will definately support my plans in the future. Do I really need a three inch exhaust system for Tiny Tim? Probably not. But the upgrades are more about future goals, not present goals.

 

[DSMunknown]

The rear suspension removal of the old muffler took a while to do, but by far was not the hardest part on my body, I was just so tired from getting the 3 bolts off over the suspenion (ended up breaking all 3 bolts) that when i realized it wasn't just going to slip over the suspension and come out, i was pissed and didn't think it through and started yanking.

I see why I never dealt with my suspension - your cat-back system goes over the rear axle like the OEM system, while many other aftermarket exhaust systems go around it. Without the photos I would have still been wondering what you meant.

I tried almost everything: propane torch, PB Blaster, tapping the bolts, breaker bar, and those "breaker caps" that are placed on stubborn bolts to dislodge them (I forget their "official" name, but they have the teeth on the inside rim and when turned counter-clockwise for unscrewing a bolt, the teeth bite into the bolt, give you better grip and thus more leverage on the bolt).

I remember what they're called now - nut extractors (or bolt-out removers).

 

[97gstjosh]

Thought Id join in. If your going to get an EvoIII 16G go with an EvoIII O2 housing, RRE short downpipe(Evo Style), then their high flow cat and thats that.
Definately used the sawzall on my exhaust.