Advice on first mods - 97 gst

[Atuca]

Hey all, i know everyone has to lose their virginity one time or another, and now it is finally my turn!

I have done a full tune up on the car, and fixed some problems with mater and slave clutch, passed smog today, registered the car for the year, and now, i got about 800 bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

As you can see in my profile, i have a completely stock 97 Eclipse GS-T, and it needs fixing. I am not a racer, i hardly accelerate when a riced civic revs his engine at me at a stop light( although sometimes i do and i smoke him, which is always great, being as i just got my first manual transmission and he is all riced up ) ANYWAYS, i am looking for a few lights mods.

My list includes:

BOV (greddy type s perhaps)(which i got a bazillion questions about type S/RS/wtf)
K/N cold air intake (i beleive is the name for it)
maybe exhaust (does it really matter)
maybe front mount intercooler (does it really help?)


that is it really. The exhaust was a "eh, kids like it" front mount intercooler looks nice, but i think they are expensive. BOV is cheapish 200 bucks right? but i have no idea what supporting mods i need and would i want one if it doesn't circulate to the atmospher (i am going for efficency, so if it recirculates to the intake, does it change the sound at all?) and the K/N cold air intake, well, it matters if i get a FMIC right? and well, i looked up eclipse on K/N's website and the only had the square filter, and i thought that you could have the cone one that adds 30 horse power or w/e.

anyways, i need you guys to put your hand in my pocket and spend my money. just don't feel around too much, the pocket ain't toooo deep.

-thanks in advanced
Philip

 

[hun6over]

Atuca, i went to the san jose north and south picknpulls yesterday and there werent any BOV in the 1gs. There werent any 2g cars at all also. So u can cross those off ## list. I went to the one in oakland and newark also but i didnt find any mitsubishi at all. It turned out that they put their mitsubishis in the chrysler section. Keep that in mind. They all told me it would be in the import sections but they are dumb. I didnt realize this until i went to the san jose ones, so u should recheck the ones in oakland and newark.

 

[kenamond]

OK! Boost gauge install complete

Now for a few questions/clarifications. The gauge reads at about -20 while idling when warmed up, normal right? And i noticed, unlike my stock boost gauge, that it is reading boost only at peak pretty much, it is at -20 for the first few seconds, than all of a sudden it jumps to 11-12 psi when accelerating, i assume that is turbo lag, and boost works like that? my stock gauge kinda slowly goes up while i accelerate, but that is not how it works really right?

Anyways, i think i am all good, but i'll take an explanation if anyone wants to. Once i am sure that is all gravy, i will work twards installing the MBC, that is after i check for leaks i suppose

Thanks

Atuca,
If you haven't wired your backlight for your gauge yet, check out the link below. This is a fairly new tech article that I've been waiting for. It lets you use the dimmer switch on the dash by your left knee to control the brightness of your gauges just as you can with your other dashlights. I'll be doing this today while the kids nap. I'll also be changing my thermostat, front O2 sensor and oil.

Here's the 2g dimmer switch article.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241353

As far as the boost reading, I think that -20psi is correct for idle at sea level (search to verify this). I'm at 7500ft elevation, so my idle vaccuum is -14psi.

When you get on the gas at low rpm, the turbo isn't getting enough exhaust flow through the turbine, so the turbine wheel isn't spinning fast enough to drive the compressor to generate much boost. As your rpm go up, the exhaust flow increases, and the turbine starts to spool up driving the compressor with it. The T25 starts to boost a bit after 2k rpm, and I think that you hit full boost a bit under 4k rpm. The stock boost level is indeed around 11-12psi. I'm not sure if it holds all the way to redline or not (watch your boost gauge and let me know ), so it may drop down a bit near 7k rpm but maybe not. Now that you have the boost gauge, you can do two more things: do a boost leak test and add the MBC and adjust it for maybe 14psi. You might be able to safely up the boost past this, but you don't have a logger, and you could end up hurting your motor without knowing it.

If you can spare $170, go get a refurbished Palm IIIc and Pocketlogger, and you'll be set. There are other options for loggers out there, but that's what I use and am happy with.

 

[Atuca]

should i do boost leak test before installing the MBC? i am pretty sure there are posts on here how to do a boost leak test, so i'll search later, i got class today, but am free tomorrow, hopefully this awsome weather holds up

IF i got a boost leak test to do, i'll need to get a air tank i guess, and test away, or if i should do the MBC install, i will do that.

I actually just found the post for the boost gauge lights the other day, so i did hold off on installing the lights. However if you read above, i missed my opprotunity to get my oil presure gauge installed, so i am having to wait to get it all back together (a-pillar ect)

Anyways, tanks for the link though, it should help others as they read through this walk through.

Thanks for the help looking for 1g BOVs, i'll hit up newark and look in the chysler section for us on tuesday maybe. Gonna be busy the next few weeks, plus this sunday meeting up in daly city, if you guys are available come on out

thanks all, will be giving an update on what ever i do tomorrow!

 

[turbodsm18]

should i do boost leak test before installing the MBC? i am pretty sure there are posts on here how to do a boost leak test, so i'll search later, i got class today, but am free tomorrow, hopefully this awsome weather holds up

IF i got a boost leak test to do, i'll need to get a air tank i guess, and test away, or if i should do the MBC install, i will do that.

I actually just found the post for the boost gauge lights the other day, so i did hold off on installing the lights. However if you read above, i missed my opprotunity to get my oil presure gauge installed, so i am having to wait to get it all back together (a-pillar ect)

Anyways, tanks for the link though, it should help others as they read through this walk through.

Thanks for the help looking for 1g BOVs, i'll hit up newark and look in the chysler section for us on tuesday maybe. Gonna be busy the next few weeks, plus this sunday meeting up in daly city, if you guys are available come on out

thanks all, will be giving an update on what ever i do tomorrow!

To be safe, I would do a boost leak test before you install a MBC. Then after you install it you may want to do another one.

I believe I have read somewhere that a mbc (certain types) will leak under a boost leak test. Also when Installing the Boost controller please DO NOT tap into your bov line. If your still on the T-25 then you have a proper source right on the turbine housing.

-Kevin-

 

[kenamond]

should i do boost leak test before installing the MBC? i am pretty sure there are posts on here how to do a boost leak test, so i'll search later, i got class today, but am free tomorrow, hopefully this awsome weather holds up

IF i got a boost leak test to do, i'll need to get a air tank i guess, and test away, or if i should do the MBC install, i will do that.

I actually just found the post for the boost gauge lights the other day, so i did hold off on installing the lights. However if you read above, i missed my opprotunity to get my oil presure gauge installed, so i am having to wait to get it all back together (a-pillar ect)

Anyways, tanks for the link though, it should help others as they read through this walk through.

Thanks for the help looking for 1g BOVs, i'll hit up newark and look in the chysler section for us on tuesday maybe. Gonna be busy the next few weeks, plus this sunday meeting up in daly city, if you guys are available come on out

thanks all, will be giving an update on what ever i do tomorrow!

Go get all of the parts to make your boost leak tester first. When you do the boost leak test, you should block off the compressor outlet nipple or your BCS or MBC will both leak.

Also get the compressed air tank unless you have the money, desire, and space for an electric air compressor.

You can do your oil pressure gauge later if you want to. I did my backlight tonight, and it went without a hitch. If you're electrically inclined, you might want to mount a junction box double-sided-taped to the inside of the a-pillar pod if it will fit. Then you can tie in all of the gauge lights to it and run one set of wires to the dimmer switch. I didn't have the junction box, so I just left about 16" of extra wire under the dash. When I do another gauge, I can pull down the extra wire, splice in the new gauge, etc. My a-pillar pod is just 2 screws, so it only takes a minute to pull it off. When I get all of the gauges done, I'll glue the little caps on the heads of those two screws.

Another thing you should do is clean your intercooler and straighten the fins. Rocks hit the fins and flatten them out. If you have it cleaned, go sit in front of the TV with a knife, tweezers, toothpicks, and a few paper towels and go to town. It's pretty easy to take the IC out, but you'll have a better time of it if you jack up the passenger-front tire so that you can reach under the front of the car and see what you're doing. If you don't have a set of jackstands yet, pick those up, too. You should never get under a car that's only supported by a jack.

 

[Atuca]

Ok well i found this -> http://vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

Is that look good? If i understand this right, i will construct that tester. I just remove the intake pipe from my turbocharger inlet (on the bottom where the MBC connects right?), and attach this in its' place.

I than get a air tank, and plug it in at the intake and start listening for hissing? I am a bit unsure where i start pumping air into the system, so could someone tell me how to actually do the test? I think the above link gets me the tools (plus the air tank i wil buy from wal mart) but now i need the proceedure.

thanks in advanced

p.s.

Another thing you should do is clean your intercooler and straighten the fins. Rocks hit the fins and flatten them out. If you have it cleaned, go sit in front of the TV with a knife, tweezers, toothpicks, and a few paper towels and go to town.

I guess that is something i could do in the spare time i have, which is currently non existant as of now, but i will sooner or later. thanks for the advice

 

[Atuca]

ok i know my boost gauge is not broken, but when i turn my car off the gauge reads from 20, to about -10 psi (or what ever the numbers represent backwards 10) when the engine is off. Than it stays there for like an hour before it gets back to 0. does this mean i am really free from boost leaks? or is something weird?

Is this normal?

thanks

 

[DSMunknown]

ok i know my boost gauge is not broken, but when i turn my car off the gauge reads from 20, to about -10 psi (or what ever the numbers represent backwards 10) when the engine is off. Than it stays there for like an hour before it gets back to 0. does this mean i am really free from boost leaks? or is something weird?

Is this normal?

thanks

No, that definitely isn't normal. Does the gauge seem to work normally when driving around? How responsive is it? Have you tested the gauge's accuracy?

You may just want to send the gauge back (if the company allows for easy replacement). I see you have an Auto Meter boost/vacuum gauge. Read this thread for info about sending it to the company.

Regarding what Mack said about jack stands - unless they are made out of gold, you shouldn't pay more than $50 for a pair. Use Google. You can easily find fair deals out there on good products for cheap.

 

[Atuca]

it works just fine when i am driving. when i start the car cold, (which it is at zero than) it goes to about -10, than as it warms up, it sits at -20. When i start to accelerate, it goes up quick when i reach WOT, and stays at about 12 psi for as long as i am accelerating.

The gauge works perfectly (well i think it does) it just when i turn the car off takes about an hour for it to slowly go back to 0. At first i was liek wow i must have no boost leaks and it just takes time for pressure to drain from the systm, but oh wells. How would i test the gauge outside driving it?

 

[DSMunknown]

The gauge works perfectly (well i think it does) it just when i turn the car off takes about an hour for it to slowly go back to 0. At first i was liek wow i must have no boost leaks and it just takes time for pressure to drain from the systm, but oh wells. How would i test the gauge outside driving it?

First of all, the needle should should be "zero-ed" in a matter of seconds.


Secondly, look through Post # 6, 8, and 9 in the thread below:


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241831


You may need some assistance (a friend or family member) to give you the gauge readings while sitting in the driver's seat while you are in the process of doing a boost leak test. Get another gauge (fairly cheap at your local NAPA store) and see if both gauges have the same readings as you are doing the test.

You can also do this with the car idling, but you would have to be careful not to touch anything potentially hot. The gauge you see in Post #9 gives readings in both vacuum and positive pressure. That is to say, don't buy a gauge that only gives you vacuum readings (or only gives you positive pressure readings). Get one that gives both readings. Or perhaps you can borrow one from a local DSMer.

 

[kenamond]

it works just fine when i am driving. when i start the car cold, (which it is at zero than) it goes to about -10, than as it warms up, it sits at -20. When i start to accelerate, it goes up quick when i reach WOT, and stays at about 12 psi for as long as i am accelerating.

The gauge works perfectly (well i think it does) it just when i turn the car off takes about an hour for it to slowly go back to 0. At first i was liek wow i must have no boost leaks and it just takes time for pressure to drain from the systm, but oh wells. How would i test the gauge outside driving it?

The gauge should go to zero almost immediately. You posted a link to a short how-to by DGagre777. Is that what you did? Might want to double-check. I can't find the original article where those pictures came from, but it explains it a bit more thoroughly.

 

[DSMunknown]

^^


http://www.plymouthlaser.com/bez.htm

 

[Atuca]

^^


http://www.plymouthlaser.com/bez.htm

that is a nice little website. I am going to the daly city meet today, hopefuly one of them can say "man your gauge is broken" so that way i can just send it back. And the webite had alot of cool walk throughs, i'll be using that for sure as another vfaq.

 

[Atuca]

Atuca, i went to the san jose north and south picknpulls yesterday and there werent any BOV in the 1gs. There werent any 2g cars at all also. So u can cross those off ## list. I went to the one in oakland and newark also but i didnt find any mitsubishi at all. It turned out that they put their mitsubishis in the chrysler section. Keep that in mind. They all told me it would be in the import sections but they are dumb. I didnt realize this until i went to the san jose ones, so u should recheck the ones in oakland and newark.

I hit up newark yesterday, i found about 6 1gs, all missing the BOV. I will probably end up just ebaying it

No 2gs though, so we can try again in a few weeks, maybe some more cars will show up

 

[forcefed4]

The reason that your gauge is acting a little funny is because the FPR solenoid is between the intake manifold and the guage. Sometines that solenoid closes. That is what is causing the gauge to take some time to return to zero when the car is turned off. You can move the gauge tap to the other side of that solenoid (on the line that goes to the intake manifold) and that should solve your problem.

edit- make sure you zip tie all of the lines between the intake manifold and the fpr. You don't want to loose your manifold pressure referance to your fpr while you are under boost.

 

[DSMunknown]

I hit up newark yesterday, i found about 6 1gs, all missing the BOV. I will probably end up just ebaying it

There are two being sold in the Classifieds section of DSMtuners right now. Here they are:




http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=56658&cat=7
http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=57156&cat=500




Before buying anything in the Classifieds section (that is, before you send money to someone you don't know), you should read through this link. Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Atuca]

what does it mean to be crushed or uncrushed 1g bov? i saw this before, but not sure what it means. Have an esay explaination?

 

[Atuca]

The reason that your gauge is acting a little funny is because the FPR solenoid is between the intake manifold and the guage. Sometines that solenoid closes. That is what is causing the gauge to take some time to return to zero when the car is turned off. You can move the gauge tap to the other side of that solenoid (on the line that goes to the intake manifold) and that should solve your problem.

edit- make sure you zip tie all of the lines between the intake manifold and the fpr. You don't want to loose your manifold pressure referance to your fpr while you are under boost.

if i move it to the other side, will it still read the same when driving aronud? i thoguht the point of putting it on the the left side is because it is what the cra is actually getting after all is said and done to the air.

I am going to a meet today, hopefully they have some advice to offer as well.

 

[forcefed4]

That's how I have mine, it all leads back to the same place anyway, that nipple on the intake manifold.

 

[DSMunknown]

what does it mean to be crushed or uncrushed 1g bov? i saw this before, but not sure what it means. Have an esay explaination?

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8384/crushBOV.html
http://www.jumptronix.com/2g_go_faster/Stages/details/BlowOffValve.htm
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=325526
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=85816
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=143017





By the way, you really need to start searching on your own.





Here is a quote that can be found on 1000 AAQ:

What is a crushed BOV?
Search for this topic now!

Owners of highly boosted cars have discovered that the stock 1G BOV tends to begin to open too early. This causes a pressure leak in the intake system that limits boost. The valve tends to leak somewhat at lower boost levels, then opens fully when it's supposed to. This low-level leakage is the problem. The 1G BOV will usually hold pressures to about 22 psi, so this problem usually only appears on cars with upgraded turbochargers.

[2G owners have this problem, times two - the stock 2G BOV can just hold stock boost levels, and tends to start leaking at around 15 psi. 2Gers don't crush their BOV because it's plastic and won't crush. Instead, 2Gers often replace their unit with a stock 1G BOV to eliminate the leakage problem. This works until they too reach the limits of the 1G BOV.]

One DIY solution proposed to fix this problem is to crush the BOV. This means exactly what it says - stick the valve into a vise or clamp and squish it so it doesn't open as early. This is really a cheap & dirty method of increasing the spring force holding the BOV shut, and saves the operator from having to install an expensive aftermarket BOV. This techique can, however, restrict the amount of air that can pass through the BOV when it is wide open, making it a less efficient BOV, and therefore not as good as an aftermarket unit. All of this theory was explained by Todd Hayashi in his August 31/99 post on the subject. A follow-up summary post by Robert Mangus can be found here.

Although the technique is simple, individuals should use caution in applying it since various BOVs and crushing techniques are different. The essential technique is to crush the BOV so that it begins to open when 18-20 inHg of vacuum is applied to the reference port. Pristine BOVs will begin to open much earlier than this. Crushing should be done a little at a time until the BOV responds properly. Over-crushing a BOV may result in poor performance.

One opponent to this technique is Jim McKenna; he explains here how moving the BOV pressure reference solves the leakage problem. (Jim explains his original concept here.) Aaron Becker disagreed with the idea, while Warren Tsai supported it. As with most information available about this modification, this debate remains incomplete. Regardless, owners of stock turbochargers need not concern themselves, as the stock 1G BOV works just fine with stock turbos. The Last Word: Ray Peters supplied this helpful info on this subject:

"My submission concerns the theory of crushing the BOV. My studies of this concluded that crushing it only solves the open at idle problem and has nothing to do with pressure it will hold. In fact the boost pressure HOLDS the BOV closed plus the spring tension. IMO it is impossible for the valve to leak with all that force on it.

Now the other case, idle and closed throttle operation of the valve. The pressure difference between the intake manifold and the upper intercooler pipe determines when the valve is open. So at idle and when there is more than 15 Inches Hg pressure difference across the throttle plate, the valve begins to open. Crushing the valve slightly increases the spring pressure and raises this difference to just over 20 IN Hg. However the down side is it limits flow because the valve cannot travel fully anymore, and increases the pressure spike against the turbo.

I believe this was done as a workaround so one could dump to atmosphere while using a suck through air measurement device (stock airflow meter or equiv). I tested extensively on both a 1G and a 2G and found this information to be true and correct."

Basically, stop being so cheap - buy a real BOV. Ray Peters

 

[Atuca]

well crushing to me sounds very crude way to increase boost. I am not changing my turbo, so i think uncrushed will be just fine for me, although i don't really wanna spent 40 bucks for a 1g BOV and adapter, when i could go to a junk yard and get one for like 10 bucks and the piping, but i guess i will just have to give in and get it.

 

[DSMunknown]

well crushing to me sounds very crude way to increase boost. I am not changing my turbo, so i think uncrushed will be just fine for me, although i don't really wanna spent 40 bucks for a 1g BOV and adapter, when i could go to a junk yard and get one for like 10 bucks and the piping, but i guess i will just have to give in and get it.

A 1G uncrushed RV should suit you just fine.


Good luck finding one of these RVs at a junkyard. DSMers, EVO people, SRT-4 people, and such know the capabilites of these valves. In my experience, it is extremely difficult to find them at junkyards, unless you have the good fortune to get there shortly after the company has taken delivery of a wrecked 1G. For 40 bucks you are getting a heck of a product.

 

[Atuca]

Well i am getting a second job now, so that means i have plenty of extra money to afford car stuff again. I was looking at getting a 1g BOV still, but need some clarification.

I know that when i get a 1g BOV, it won't work without an adapter. But what if i get the whole 1g BOV pipe?

Of the things i link below, what should i get? they al have a buy out timer, so i figure i could just buy them if i wanted to, although now i am posting it here, hopefully nobody steals them off the internet

Here is the 1g BOV with the 1g pipe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1g-D...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or do i have to buy that and get this flange:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-9...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

which is alot of money, but looks like nice quality.




now of course, i could also just buy a new UICP right, and that could have a 1g BOV flange attached to it, which if needed be in the future could handle a greddy bov. I am looking at getting a FMIC now and a 16g turbo (and i think i need new fuel injectors, but we can get there later) So considering i may buy a new pipe, so thinking of prices and stuff:

What would you guys do?

been a while, but i am back

 

[BoostFrenzy]

If you are trying to stay legal, then a K&N intake will be legal with a performance boost. And I believe almost ALL Greddy Products are street legal in California. I think its what they strive for. So you could do an exhaust from them (depending on type and Db level), a BOV (that needs to be re-circulated btw), and a Front mount and be completely legal because they give you all the papers you would need to show to the local bacon to prove you are legal when they think you are a ricer...

That should suffice for now. Boost Happy

 

[coolwata34]

just my .02 cents, DSMLINK car cant do what you want it to with out proper tunning, granted you said you didnt have large horspower goals, but i think dsmlink should come first, then throw some work on your intake, 3" turbo back, and go from there, thats about 800 bux . either way it's your car and thats what makes this hobby/sport great is that everyone has there own style and taste.