97 GSX: 2.3 Stroker with a T4 FF TS HTA3076

[willelvs]

Love the build!! Your numbers are about what I'm looking to get out of mine when I start my build. I plan on following a similar route to yours with the stroker but no E85 for me. Also its sounds so sick in that vid!!

 

[We're on Boost]

Love the build!! Your numbers are about what I'm looking to get out of mine when I start my build. I plan on following a similar route to yours with the stroker but no E85 for me. Also its sounds so sick in that vid!!

Will you be running your car on 92 octane pump gas? Is that what you have in Alaska?

 

[rvaughn]

^^Thanks man I appreciate it! E85 is definitely the key to my hp. If you want 525 or more on pump 92 I'd consider a 3582 or 3586. For response you can't beat this setup in my mind though!

 

[We're on Boost]

^^Thanks man I appreciate it! E85 is definitely the key to my hp. If you want 525 or more on pump 92 I'd consider a 3582 or 3586. For response you can't beat this setup in my mind though!

Exactly! That's just what I was going to say.

Just connecting a few dots here, knowing that the HTA3582 is wonderful for making a bunch of hp on pump gas, and remembering that evolutionm member TedB is getting great results on pump gas with an HTA3582 with an ATP twin scroll turbine housing T4 1.06 a/r (sound familiar?), also stirring in some agreement with what Steve93Talon said about the GT35 turbine wheel back in post #113 - I'm thinking the HTA3582 with this turbine housing would be a super way to go on pump gas. You would just lose some of the amazing low-end that rvaughn has up to about 5000 rpm.
I'll add a couple links, don't know how much TedB has posted about his build but any post of his has the basic info in his signature. Those guys don't use their user profile like we do here. Too bad. The user profile is definitely one of the good points of DSMtuners.

Ted B post #60 and #62 and other posts, this is a good stroker thread anyway. Rod ratios, piston compression heights, etc. (Ted's is actually a 2 liter though):
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-en...7452-4g64-w-96mm-crankshaft-great-idea-4.html

There might even be an "unused-new" one for sale here, by SDevo13:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/sale-e...6516-fs-new-fp-hta82-1-06-twin-scroll-t4.html

 

[rvaughn]

^I couldn't have put it better. Great info! Keep it up guys, take what I've learned and use it to build goals for yourself!

 

[We're on Boost]

You know, before HTA came along, I was never even remotely interested in anything with a GT35 turbine wheel because they just seemed too slow to get going. But now with the lighter HTA compressor wheels, and throw twin scroll into the mix, it's a little different.

Some of what Steve93Talon was talking about is shown in a evom thread by member "240Z Twin Turbo". Most of what he posted was not apples to apples enough to count. But in post #24 his GTX3076 and GTX3576 were both without cats. The only difference was he ran the 3576 at a few psi higher boost - which I would say is fair because you can do that with the same knock threshold, because of the larger turbine wheel. Your results may vary!!
GTX SHOWDOWN: GTX3076r vs GTX3576r - Page 2 - evolutionm.net

I had a few questions for 240Z by PM afterwards. Here's some of that:

It looks like the 3076 had no advantage in the lower part of the rev range. Was that also your driving impression?
After talking with the Garrett engineers, they told me based on their testing of the GTX3076r vs GTX3576r they saw no difference in spool and 40hp up top on an EVO X. My results confirmed those findings and on the street the turbos felt the same, which was confirmed by data logs.

How did you manage to talk to an actual engineer at Garrett?
I have their direct line.

Do I understand post #24 correctly, that the virtual dyno plot you show in that post had the 3076 without a cat, so that both turbos shown in that post were without a cat?
Yes, I had a single run on the GTX3076r where I removed the CAT.

 

[willelvs]

Yea we only have 91 octane here which sucks!!! But yea I'm still doing my research on everything I want but I know for sure I'm going with a 2.3L stroker. Plus I've got all summer to research as I won't be able to start the build till about mid fall but thanks for the tips and I'll keep watching your build. I'd like to run E85 but we are still in the dark age up here and I haven't found anywhere that sells it and I'm not about to order it . I figure some meth injection for sure though but we will see I'm still a long ways out on starting and like I said I'm researching my ass off to get the setup I want.

 

[Steve93Talon]

After talking with the Garrett engineers, they told me based on their testing of the GTX3076r vs GTX3576r they saw no difference in spool and 40hp up top on an EVO X. My results confirmed those findings and on the street the turbos felt the same, which was confirmed by data logs.

Bear in mind also, those are comparisons using the GTX wheel, which is larger and rated at 5 lb/min more than the HTA wheel. The HTA may be a bit of a better fit for the 30r turbine. Personally, I'd do a Borg EFR 7670, which will outspool any of the GTX/HTA options and make at least as much power.

 

[rvaughn]

I'm not 100% on the efr stuff as of late so bear with me but last I had seen there was big problems getting one, the consistency of casting was in question, and the one 7670 that I did see make it on an Evo went through a catastrophic failure of a motor or two with some questioning the turbo itself as the culprit. Do you know if they have any better examples as of late Steve? I've been waiting to see how those turbos do and would love to see some results of a 7670 on a 2.3.

 

[Steve93Talon]

From what I've seen, the supply and casting issues were resolved awhile ago. There are a bunch of impressive results on Full Race's page:

BorgWarner EFR 7670 Turbo - Full-Race.com

 

[rvaughn]

Good info! More fpr you guys to compare with!

 

[We're on Boost]

I'm not 100% on the efr stuff as of late so bear with me but last I had seen there was big problems getting one, the consistency of casting was in question, and the one 7670 that I did see make it on an Evo went through a catastrophic failure of a motor or two with some questioning the turbo itself as the culprit. Do you know if they have any better examples as of late Steve? I've been waiting to see how those turbos do and would love to see some results of a 7670 on a 2.3.

The one EFR7670 you mentioned was probably R/TErnie's in evom?
That was a great result and the engine was almost a 2.3 -- It was a 4G64 with a 94mm crank, so about 2.2 liters. I appreciate that it was on a "familiar" dyno - the English Racing Dynojet, unlike most of the other results shown by Full-Race. Anyway, 557 awhp max, 325 awhp at 4000rpm. At the time he figured there was more on the table but then the valve train let go - a lifter as I recall. He had S3 cams, Vipec stand alone, just about everything. A while later he said that he thought the turbo was close to maxed out though. Don't remember how he came to that conclusion. Here's his dyno result on E85, peak boost 34psi, in post #1985:
New BW EFR Turbo Thread - Page 133 - evolutionm.net
BW had to give up making the slick looking investment cast turbine housings because the rejection rate on the castings was way too high. So they switched to sand-cast turbine housings which don't look nearly as cool but they are still stainless and seem to be high quality.
The actual EFR failures were exploding turbine wheels. That was happening a couple years ago. They blamed it on the sub contractor who was making the turbine wheels for them - which was in the USA! Word was BW switched to a different contractor, I think in Japan, for those Ti-aluminide wheels. That problem is supposedly solved now.
Worst problem I think, other than continuing poor availability, is the long outlets on the turbine housings, even the non-wastegated ones, which makes a compact install impossible.

For the HTA3076, there is a great result on a "familiar" dyno (the Buschur Mustang dyno) and with a great looking investment cast turbine housing (Tial .63 a/r single scroll stainless) on a 2.3 liter, and also with a stand alone and just about everything else you'd want. That one was on E98, peak boost of 34psi. The Mustang said 576 awhp max, 338 awhp at 4000 rpm. Pretty impressive for Mustang horses which are supposedly bigger than Dynojet horses. BTW the HTA3082 in this test is not offered (you can see why) and as far as I know they also do not offer an HTA3576 - but maybe they could custom build one.
Buschur Racing-HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison - evolutionm.net

I really like both of the above turbos. The GTX3576 is a little bigger both on compressor flow and for sure turbine flow than either of the above, so should potentially make more power. I'm a little un-enthused about the GTX's though because when I run the Garrett Boost Advisor I wind up with my "mid point" way out to the left of the surge line. Their compressor maps are a little narrow.

Rvaughn, your English Racing Dynojet 525 awhp max and 340 awhp at 4000 rpm is right up there with the monster dawgs!!

 

[rvaughn]

Yeah man both of those threads were ones I referenced when I made my decision on my turbo. Buschur sealed the deal for me with his high praise of the hta3076. I love my response most on my setups so it was natural to go slightly smaller! Great info all! Keep it coming! I hope peeps find the info as useful as I do!

 

[94awdcoupe]

the EFR I wish to try is the 7163. someone on suby forums posted 540whp/490tq. they spool like stock turbo pretty much.

 

[rvaughn]

^^^ Thank you for the in depth comparision We're on Boost!

Those were the types of conclusions I was hoping could be drawn from my experience. Of course without me bolting all the turbos on and testing them with back to back comparisions we will never really get the WHOLE picture, however, I do feel that my results illustrate what is possible with the HTA3076. I feel that with a change to cams, moving to an EBC, and potentially playing with some different wastegate springs, we may see a potential improvement in my top end power without sacraficing the spool characteristics Ive shown.

^Good info 94. I would be interested to see one of those on a 4g platform for a better comparison, maybe you can spearhead that?!?!

Keep the info and discussion going everyone! This is great!

 

[Steve93Talon]

the EFR I wish to try is the 7163. someone on suby forums posted 540whp/490tq. they spool like stock turbo pretty much.

I'd been checking up on the 7670 in particular since the next step smaller 7064 didn't seem to be enough of a leap from my current HTA68 to justify the cost. I hadn't really been paying attention to the new 7163, but after reading about it, it's definitely appealing. I might just have to sell the DSM76 I've got waiting to go on and give one a try next.

 

[rvaughn]

So I had a little time yesterday to play with the car some more. Figured it was time to add the FF vent but the vent I had ordered on Ebay didn't fit my fancy so I had one fabbed by a good friend with a bad ass 2g. I also added a couple fog light delete plates that I fabbed for fun and removed my cruise control... so much for my original creature comforts huh?

*Shameless plug: If you need any welding such as the ebr coolant overflow like mine, or maybe even a front lip made hit me up, my buddy is taking on the brunt of the work (I help as I can) and I know he is looking to get his product out!*

Hopefully you enjoy the Peeping Turbo as much as I do!


(Front bumper is in dire need of paint and a sticker removal, although I kinda like the dejon sticker for nostalgia! Its all in the works, one step at a time, right now its all small projects till I get through paying off the remainder of the FF/Tranny project because buying houses and car projects dont mix.)

 

[Miasma]

Looks awesome, lots of extra air flow!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Sweet ive seen something similar to that on some 2gs at the shootout.

 

[rvaughn]

Thanks guys! Yeah I originally wanted to use the same piece as the guys at the shootout (I'm assuming you saw stm's ff setup) but I didn't like that it was so rounded and stood off the bumper so much. I got the shape for this off that design though.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes I saw the white 2g a few years back.

 

[rvaughn]

I want to tube my front end like that car soooo bad!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes it was so clean.

 

[rvaughn]

Decided to finally pull the trigger and go for a wrap on the hood since it was in rough shape after sitting in the sun for 3 or so months waiting on the tranny and turbo setup. I think Im in love with the 'dry-carbon' look now! I was not brave enough to attempt this myself but I may try to wrap my cowel (also CF) myself with dry-carbon wrap. Anyway, enjoy!

 

[Macspsi]

That looks great man!